Can't afford Relate but MIL is offering to pay - WWYD?

[LazyCake]

DH and I have been having lots of problems, for a very long time. We recently started to receive counselling from Relate, but are really, really struggling to pay for the sessions, which take place every week and cost £65. The counselling has been helpful to a degree, it makes me feel calmer as I am no longer dealing with all the problems and worrying about the future on my own. DH says that he enjoys it (a bit odd, but good I suppose?!)

Anyway, our finances are in chaos, and any discussion of how things might be improved leads to long arguments that go nowhere. This has been going on for years, but has got worse recently. Today I am trying to work out how to feed DD until payday, which is ridiculous as DH is on a good salary. So the added drain on our finances caused by Relate's £65 a week fees is not helping matters.

I suggested to DH that we stop receiving counselling, simply because we cannot afford it. He agreed initially, but then said that he had discussed it with his Mum, who had offered to meet the cost of 10 sessions as a birthday present. There are lots of reasons why I think this is not a good idea - to begin with, it's just a miserable, depressing thing to receive for your birthday, isn't it? And then there's the fact that I think that the eventual outcome of the counselling will be separation. MIL certainly does not realise this - she things we are just having 'a few problems'. She is very traditional, strict Christian upbringing, etc, and this will come as a dreadful blow to her. Also, I don't want DH acting the martyr over the fact he has received such a present - I feel guilty enough.

But if I don't accept MIL's offer to pay, am I throwing away the chance to try to work on our marriage and make thing better for DD? H will certainly reproach me with this for years to come, especially if we do end up separating, and maybe he would be right to do so?

You've posted about this man before haven't you?, Yes I have - not about the financial side, but about my fears re: PND and him going for custody of DD.

Gather your daughter up and get off to your Mum's. Mum's place is tiny, but my Dad has offered me and DD a room in his house. Trouble is, it's a 3hr drive from where we are now and I feel that, as there is no violence or blazing rows and me and DH are rubbing along ok on a day-to-day basis, I can't justify taking DD that far from her dad. She has a place in Nursery class in Sept, and will be going up with a circle of friends from playgroup. She's very settled and happy right now.

Helena, in answer to your previous question, yes he was very keen to have a baby right from the start. We first talked about it (at his instigation) about 2 months in. Started TTC when we'd been together just over a year, and I became pregnant very shortly afterwards. As I was umming and ahhing about becoming a mum (wasn't at all sure it'd be for me), he was initially patient, but as the months went by started saying that if I didn't make my mind up soon, it'd be too late, as he'd be too old and would give up on the idea of having a child. His own dad was very elderly and ill and this time, and DH was desperate for him to be able to see his grandchild before he died.

To cut a long story short, I was very, very silly: was on the rebound from a devastating breakup and getting nervous about the approach of my 30th birthday, and so took the plunge. I can't regret that decision because it resulted in wonderful DD, but it was not a smart way of deciding to bring a child into the world.

Incognita, I just read your post. What you've been through sounds truly horrific: the breakdown, not being able to work anymore and then the lingering injustice of the final settlement. At least you have your own life now. I hope that it's much happier. And I can see the parallels with my situation. Thank you for sharing your experiences with me.

I think I do need to do what you suggest: see a lawyer and get ready for a high conflict divorce. I think it's fortunate that I can do it to my timetable: it's not as though DH has just announced he's running off with an OW and I have to sort everything in a massive rush, having not seen the crisis coming.

Just to say, be very careful about moving out without your DD as you then might not be considered primary carer anymore and therefore wouldn't be able to get maintenance, etc..., which means he could rightfully stop paying for a flat/help anytime he wants. Yes, absolutely. I read an article in the Daily Fail about women who did this - left, assuming their children would follow once everything was sorted. None of them ever lived with their kids again. And yes, re: the rented flat plan, I pointed out to DH that I had no intention of separating from him just to remain at his mercy financially.

And there you go again

You discount moving to the safety of family because your dd would be too far away from him

Love, the moon would not be too far

You think your dc are not being harmed ? You are wrong.

My situation truly is not that bad
Your situation is awful, sorry. Hard to read about let alone live in. A lot worse than my ex with his piddly OW. Get the paperwork together now - could you move to your dad's before your daughter starts school?

I agree that you should leave him as soon as you can,, once you have your ducks in a row . I wondered if you could go for counselling alone ?

Go to a new counsellor , not the one you saw as a couple .

Tell your DH that you want to work on your bad spending habits / issues from you childhood /your PN depression / whatever he criticises you for. Say that it will help your marriage , that you want to work things out.

Whatever you have to say to get him to pay for it .

That will put him off the scent and reassure him that you are not leaving ( yet) .

Tell the counsellor that you are in an abusive marriage and you want help and support to leave . Tell them what you've said on this thread.

When your H asks how it's going, tell him you are confused and it's helping your see things more clearly . Don't say any more .

Your H is highly manipulative and abusive and you need to plan and prepare for a high conflict divorce .

I note that your sister and your mother are supportive of your leaving him - why do you think that is ?

Stop discussing the plans for seperation with your H . He doesn't need the heads up .

Start discussing them with a close friend / your family, your counsellor and your solicitor .

I wondered if you could go for counselling alone ? Yes, I could do. The therapist I was seeing before for mental health stuff said I should get back in touch if Relate did not work out. I may re-refer myself to the agency she works for. She was very no-nonsense, so probably a good person to talk to about some of this stuff.

I note that your sister and your mother are supportive of your leaving him - why do you think that is ? My Mum and sister actually really like my husband - most people do, which is why I can't but feel I must have horribly misrepresented him on this thread! However, they do find aspects of his behaviour odd, are alarmed at the decline in my mental/physical health since we married and had DD, and confused by my apparent inability to assert myself (this has never been a problem in the past). They're essentially pragmatic, and see the current situation cannot continue.

I'm going to call Women's Aid in the next couple of days to talk further about some of this stuff. I think that, because it's focused on the financial inequalities, this thread has probably put my DH in a worse light than is strictly fair. I have definitely contributed my share to our problems, and at times have behaved despicably towards him. DH could probably make a pretty strong case that I have been the abusive one: he's often tearful and distressed himself. And, after all, I hit him, not the other way round.

However, there clearly is enough weird stuff going on to warrant further investigation. It's true that I am somewhat scared of him and have been for a very long time, but have previously located my fear in the mental health problems I have suffered (things have been pretty dark at times), rather than thinking there was anything objectively terrible about him.

I shall contact Women's Aid to talk to them about it.

Go to your Dad's, please. 3 hours is a nice distance - not too far to have a relationship with her if he wants to but far enough that he can't hover over you controlling and bullying you.

This is the perfect time - she can start at nursery there instead and she's little enough to not think too much about her friends. Please don't use her as an excuse because next time it'll be school and then you'll never go.

Get the abuse logged so you can get legal aid, pack up what you need and go.

Well done on taking the step to call W A. My mental health suffered terribly when I was with my ex. He made me feel that everything was my fault. Looking back it was both of us who behaved badly. But you shouldn't feel scared, you can't be in this situation and neither can your DD. My family thought the world of my ex, but hated the weak, dependent woman I eventually became in the last years of a very long marriage. My mum said recently that I'm back to my old self, and getting shot was the best thing I did. Sometimes, no one is to blame you know, it just stops working.

Ok, so this morning, I have asked DH if everything is in hand to get some money together for next week. After lots of prevaricating, it turns out that so far he has done nothing. Said he was too busy yesterday. Also that everyday when he gets up, he is shaking due to the stress of our financial difficulties, and that he is on the point of breaking down. Yesterday, when I tried to pin him down about food money for the rest of the month, it resulted in a long and upsetting conversation. DD came downstairs and he started crying and I had to tell him to pull himself together. The day before that, he was threatening to give up his job if we separated (this is something he does often following conversations about separating. Says if his family broke up there would be no reason to carry on, sometimes even says he'd also go NC with DD).

Today DH said that that none of his colleagues understand that he is so hard up, because he is one of the highest earners at his work, so they assume that he should be wealthier. I feel so, so guilty, which is why I (foolishly) tend to avoid conversations about money until we are reachiing crisis point.

When I pressed him about his reluctance to remove money from his savings, he said that he was trying to draw a line. Obviously, I understand that we need to do this - that's I asked him to draw-up a budget, plus I have made an appointment at the bank on Friday and made plans with him to spend some time tomorrow sorting out our bills, switching suppliers, etc. However, 'drawing a line' in the way he describes (ie. ignoring the problem and stonewalling me) is simply going to mean we get adverse credit when our direct debits bounce, and - unless I borrow again - DD is going to go short of food next week.

His next suggestion was to take some money from petty cash at work!? Fgs. That's gross misconduct, right?

Stress levels are going through the roof right now, but he's gone off to work with a plan to visit the bank and ask them to extend the overdraft, so hopefully that'll help.

Cary, yes I agree. Some relationships just become horribly dysfunctional. My bf says DH and I are basically two decent people who are just terrible for each other, and that we'll end up hating each other if we don't split immediately.

Jengnr, I hear what your saying but there are so many reasons that going to my Dad's does not look like the best thing to do right now. But I''m glad I've got that option as a last resort.

Today DH said that that none of his colleagues understand that he is so hard up, because he is one of the highest earners at his work, so they assume that he should be wealthier. I feel so, so guilty
What do you feel guilty about? Are you saying that you have frittered away all his money?

If you have £24k in savings (for what exactly?) but you make your partner beg for money to feed your children and pay bills because you refuse to use your savings, you are a shitbag of a partner and a terrible parent.

He is using the guilt you feel to keep you in your place.

Well, yes. This and the stress it has put DH under.

This time last year, I definitely had impulse control issues: was drinking too much, spending too much, and getting uncharacteristically angry. Over the last year I have stopped drinking, drastically cut back on spending and am generally calmer and saner.

However, it's true that I have spent a lot of money on my appearance over the last 2.5 years. After DD was born I was at rock bottom for a long time: about 3.5 stone overweight and spent most of the day unwashed and in pyjamas. When she was about 12 months, I decided to get a grip, so I lost the weight, started wearing makeup, etc. This led to me referring myself for help with PND from my local NHS Wellbeing Service and Homestart, so it did have some positive effects for DD. I don't buy super expensive stuff - clothes are all charity shop, Primark, etc, but I do spend money on myself. Probably get a manicure about 4 times a year, get brows threaded every 6 weeks - that sort of thing. Obviously this is totally unacceptable when our finances are in such disarray because, essentially, I've prioritised treats for myself over stability for DD.

£24k in savings (for what exactly?) Well, to begin with he refused to accept he had these savings, but when it became impossible to deny (I had seen an up-to-date statement, he said it was DD's money for university, etc. I am delighted she has a nest egg, but wanted to be able to make plans for her future together.

Hmm, having re-read my reply to ravenmum, I can kind of see why DH has been reluctant to bring me in on any equal footing. Unpalatable truth is, I have been a bit of basket case.

From your list, you don't really treat yourself and spend lots on yourself.

Meanwhile he has £24k in savings yet his solution is to steal from work?? That is seriously fucked up. And why is he extending the overdraft? He could simply just move some actual real money for you to spend.

Stop doing anything for him- feed yourself and your DC only. Go to your mums for food. He can go hungry if he isn't willing to pay for food.

I hope WA helps give you clarity on how wrong this situation is.

he has £24k in savings yet his solution is to steal from work?? That is seriously fucked up. Quite. I can never tell if he is sincere, or just saying things like this to spook me. TBH, I have stopped caring - just want out now!

Apologies if this has been suggested already as I only read the first page - but I'm fairly sure you're entitled to counselling as part of the NHS. Could you speak to your GP? There will be a waiting list. But at least then you can carry on, without the guilt that your MIL is paying.

From your list, you don't really treat yourself and spend lots on yourself. When I was trying to lose the baby weight, I used to pay £5 a week to Slimming World. DH would get quite agitated about this, and ask me to cut back elsewhere to take account of it, whereas I didn't think it was a huge amount of money. In general, he was very discouraging about me trying to lose weight and improve my appearance, said a few really mean things about it. This was one of the first things that started to make me suspicious of him. He seemed to prefer me fat and depressed - discouraged me to PND help as well, saying that it was a question of character, not something health professionals could assist with. To be fair, he has apologised for that stance since, though.

Thanks, Nickname. I think that's a good idea.

Then go. Seriously. This just sounds exhausting and bullshit and it won't ever get any better. You sound worried that you'll look bad if you do it because he's so beloved. I bet you that some people are already on to his act anyway, but your daughter is more important than appearances. And for the others, do they know he doesn't give you enough to feed your daughter? But has 24k in secret savings?

Hi op thus man is not your friend you need to gather evidence (which you know).

The mortgage - a call to the bank does not put you on the mortgage. You would have to do a transfer of equity to be put on the deeds and this would cost approx £400 plus the £140 to go on the mortgage (prob an admin fee). There would be forms to complete and sign. You may have to pay stamp duty depending on house value and mortgage size. Unfortunately with recent payday loans in your name, if the lender is high street, you probably won't be able to get on the mortgage.

Deeds - yep you could get put on the deeds via a solicitor without going on the mortgage - the lender would hate this and it costs more than £140.

As previous posters said - you don't want to be on a mortgage - he then has the threat of screwing up your credit if you threaten to leave.

What I think he has done is called the bank, asked how much it costs to put you on the mortgage, then told you he has done it. He is a twat.

Rather see a Shl yourself and get noted on the deeds so he cannot sell or remortgage without you knowing.

65k - I wonder if he feels he should be really well off because it's double the national average and feels he is entitled to expensive clothes, savings, holidays whereas in reality, depending on your outgoings, 3.5k probably won't allow an extravagant lifestyle.

When you broach changing utilities, mortgage lender etc I wonder if he won't allow it because he doesn't want you to be named on them. Call his bluff, say you will shop around and do the leg work but just keep them in his name.

I think he may believe that he is protecting his assets by keeping you off the mortgage, bills etc - I may be wrong. It's daft having 24k in his name when until this year he would have paid extra tax on interest.

Do you claim cb and he pays the higher rate tax charge?
Does he shop around for interest rates on his savings? (Just trying to suss how financially savvy he is - or whether his confusion is an act). Did he save the savings himself from wages or was it inheritance?

He is going to play dirty, he's told you this, you need to ensure you get your legal entitlement when you split. He will go for 50/50 to reduce maintenance - but want you to do pick up and drop off at school on his days. He will call you money grabbing and greedy ( cos that is what he is).

This man is all about the money - I have encountered many like him!

Sorry that was long!

Ok I don't actually know where to start
He suggests stealing money from work when you have £24000 in an account? That is one of the weirdest things I have ever read on here.
He moaned about £5 a week for slimming world- well you've worked out why that was.
Why would anyone in their right mind let direct debits bounce when you could just transfer money over?
And yet you keep defending him