Can't afford Relate but MIL is offering to pay - WWYD?

[LazyCake]

DH and I have been having lots of problems, for a very long time. We recently started to receive counselling from Relate, but are really, really struggling to pay for the sessions, which take place every week and cost £65. The counselling has been helpful to a degree, it makes me feel calmer as I am no longer dealing with all the problems and worrying about the future on my own. DH says that he enjoys it (a bit odd, but good I suppose?!)

Anyway, our finances are in chaos, and any discussion of how things might be improved leads to long arguments that go nowhere. This has been going on for years, but has got worse recently. Today I am trying to work out how to feed DD until payday, which is ridiculous as DH is on a good salary. So the added drain on our finances caused by Relate's £65 a week fees is not helping matters.

I suggested to DH that we stop receiving counselling, simply because we cannot afford it. He agreed initially, but then said that he had discussed it with his Mum, who had offered to meet the cost of 10 sessions as a birthday present. There are lots of reasons why I think this is not a good idea - to begin with, it's just a miserable, depressing thing to receive for your birthday, isn't it? And then there's the fact that I think that the eventual outcome of the counselling will be separation. MIL certainly does not realise this - she things we are just having 'a few problems'. She is very traditional, strict Christian upbringing, etc, and this will come as a dreadful blow to her. Also, I don't want DH acting the martyr over the fact he has received such a present - I feel guilty enough.

But if I don't accept MIL's offer to pay, am I throwing away the chance to try to work on our marriage and make thing better for DD? H will certainly reproach me with this for years to come, especially if we do end up separating, and maybe he would be right to do so?

AF, I have become used to it. I worked out he was a compulsive liar pretty early on, but it was too late to get out because I was already pregnant.

It used to upset me greatly, so now I try to think about it as little as possible - distract myself with other stuff, focus on the positives, our daughter, the common interests we share. It's totally bizarre, a real head-fuck.

My strategy has not worked, unfortunately. All that's happened is, I've silently lost all love/respect/attraction for him. It's been very stressful.

He had no intention of putting your name on the mortgage. He isn't fully disclosing his assets to you. He's treating you with disrespect. You aren't happy. You want to separate.

Despite my earlier post, I think the only way forward is to get a lawyer, fish around for as much info on him as possible then hit him with a divorce.

Don't stay with the manipulative arse for the sake of letting his DM down gently.

Random, my Mum said something similar. She said what's the point of being liable for the debt on a property that I don't legally own. She said I should tell him to forget the mortgage and put me on the title deeds.

Hmm... not sure of the chances of that!

Speak to Relate, if you can't afford their regular fees they will allow you to pay less. It's part of their policy to accept less, if they feel they can help.

Oh, ps. for context: when I married I had very conservative ideas about divorce. I re-evaluated these about 12 months ago, after the violent outburst that I mentioned further down the thread. It made me realise that I was completely losing the plot, becoming vile and was starting to act in a way that would be more detrimental to my daughter than a separation.

It doesn't actually matter about being on the deeds or mortgage as you are married and it's a marital asset and as such he would have a responsibility to help house you and DD if you split. Absolutely do not go on the mortgage as it would make it harder for you in the future!!!

I would also be careful about how much work you do etc - anything that impinges you as being main care, that shows you are financially independent actually would go against in you in a divorce. It's very grim t think like that but if you are sure you want to split then ensure you are aware of the impact your choices would make.

I would use further counselling to look at your finances, actually there are debt charities that would help you free - just to get a joint budget and method of handling money in place is enough you wouldn't need a debt repayment plan.

He is obviously keen to keep DD living with him so don't be afraid of having the confidence to insist on some fundamental changes...

I'm not talking about stripping him clean etc. but getting fair and reasonable things in place now that would actually benefit all 3 of you financially. It sounds like you don't have any sort of proper household budget which is just madness IMHO

Reading between the lines, you don't want your marriage to survive, so I think counselling is a waste of time. Your DD will be happier with two parents who are happier apart. I stayed in a horrible marriage for the kids. Should have gone three years earlier, saved me and the kids a lot of grief. You'll be fine, but don't delay, if you know you don't love him, get financial advice, see a solicitor, and go.

You are married. Whether your name is on the deeds, on the mortgage, on the savings accounts is irrelevant. They are marital assets, which means they are joint irrespective of whose name they re in. This law exists to protect SAHPs like you from people like your DH.

The fact that you don't know that suggests to me that you have very little clue about what is considered fair in a divorce and what he can and cannot force you into.

You really really need to see a divorce solicitor, preferably one who is used to dealing with financial and emotional abuse. Would your own DM lend you some money for that?

Op, I have typed various editions of this post then deleted them as too harsh and likely to greatly upset you. So I will just say it.

Can I ask are you on medication to dampen down your real feelings about this marriage in order to stay in it ?

You come across like a 1950's Stepford Wife zoned out on Mogadon to get through the day.

It's not normal to accept that your husband, the partner you chose to share your life, is a liar and cannot be trusted ...but still insist he is a good father

You have some huuuge dissonance going on here and a brittle bravado that sounds chemically induced

Sorry, love. Tell me to leave your thread now

Thanks, Random, for the info on finances, and what impact me going back to work might have on custody arrangements.

RunRabbit, I was not clued up about these things until a couple of months ago, when I trawled the internet to find out. It was the results of these searches that emboldened me to finally raise the issue of a separation with DH, and at that point we agreed to go into counselling, to have 'one last try'. At this time, I also contacted some lawyers but didn't follow through and arrange any meetings because I became ill. Now I am better, I shall carry on with my plan to gather information. My Dsis has said she can lend me money for an initial consultation, if necessary, and will take a day off work to come with me. She's been a great help.

Have to agree with AF totally..there is a quote that basically says the greatest gift a father can give his children is to love their mother and treat her well. He is not either of those things..being there for bath time and play time and stories while mentally abusing you does not make him a good father. Think about what you are modelling for your dd in this relationship.

Yep I've deleted stuff I was going to write as it seemed a bit harsh but any has it as usual
24000 is indeed pots of money, not sure why you can't see that
he's not a good father
Because he's not willing to feed his own daughter
Please wake up

And don't even consider counselling. He will make out he's a victim

I don't mind your frankness at all, AF. No, I am not on psychiatric medication currently. Came off it about 3 weeks ago, and am starting to get the mental clarity necessary to deal with some of this stuff, hence posting here. I'll spare you the details, but my mental health has not been good since DD was born 3.5 years ago. I was on SSRIs for a time, then my therapist suggested I come off them, go into Relate and sort out what was driving the problem. She said that upping the meds would just further numb my feelings, and turn me into a zombie - NHS couldn't do any more for me in her opinion. So far from being insulting, your post was actually very insightful, AF. . And, I confess I did watch Brief Encounter the other day, and shed a couple of very stoical tears.

Unfortunately, some months ago my GP put me back on a high dose of SSRIs as he mistook an adrenal condition for severe depression. A month ago I was in a bad way: very ill and on useless drugs, but have since got a proper diagnosis, am off the antidepressants, being medicated for my physical illness and feeling much more able to cope.

My situation truly is not that bad. On a day-to-day basis, my situation is relatively peaceable, and certainly nothing in comparison to some of the threads I read on here: women who are being beaten up, their children being harmed. But I am not resigned to it - I am actively looking for a way out, just trying to minimise the fall out for everyone concerned, especially DD.

Ok well that explains a lot
Yes please do find a way

Ah, you think that if only you can tiptoe around it the right way, then you can have an amicable divorce.

Um, no.

He has already told you that to your face.

He has already hidden money and only admitted it when you found the statement and even then he let on he forgot about £24k in savings on a 65k salary.

I know it is hard, but an amicable divorce is not going to happen. It just won't. The sooner you drop that delusion and start planning for the shitstorm he has told you it will be, the better and quicker you all will end up in the new happier final arrangements, moving on with your new lives.

Now you've raised separation I bet he is making his own plans to fuck you over if you dare to go through with it. Like he said he would.

Emotional abuse is serious. My grounds for divorce in fact, don't belittle it. It can kill too. Listen to A F. I was on anti d's for years. Didn't need them post kicking him out. Funny that...

OP did he always seem keen on having a child right from the start.

I bet he is already making his own plans to fuck you over... Yes, RunRabbit, my worst fear is that he'll go for custody of DD. He has said that he cannot and will not be parted from her - that he'll do anything to keep her with him. When I first raised separating, he immediately contacted my family behind my back to express concerns about my parenting. When this happened, my Mum suggest I keep a diary of all that I do to care for DD, day-to-day stuff like school dropoffs and pickups, and also stuff like taking her to doctors/dentists, etc, buying her clothes and shoes, fixing up playdates, etc. However, I let this journal lapse when I was ill. I think I need at least 6 months or so to build up some records I can put before a judge if necessary. Hopefully this is alarmist paranoia, but DM has cautioned me that DH can be a very convincing liar (he was an actor in his, and continues to be a very charismatic communicator). Plus I know that he has never accepted that I am DD's main carer, despite the fact he works fulltime, so is necessarily absent for much of the day Mon-Fri.

Have you considered phoning Womens Aid? Because you are being emotionally and financially abused by this man.

Also you think you had PND for 3 years - and he uses this to say you are a poor parent and should not have custody of your DD. However he leaves her with you all day every day, it's recently turned out you had a physical illness that wasn't diagnosed all along and you were having to cope with him trying to starve you. I'm sure you would have been a lot less depressed a lot quicker if you hadn't had all that on your plate - many women are far too quick to accept a diagnosis of PND when actually whats wrong is they are living in insufferable conditions.

OP, I've just read this thread from start to finish. And I'm horrified.

Any man who has 24K in savings but is happy for you to beg money for food for your DD is not worth having. He sounds awful.

It sounds like your family are wise to him & will support you. Take up your sister's offer of legal advice, with her present for moral support.

You need to ring Womens Aid OP. He may seem a convincing liar but actions and the paper trail will confirm hes just a liar.

You've posted about this man before haven't you? It rings loads of bells this thread.

He was an abusive cunt then and he's an abusive cunt now. Gather your daughter up and get off to your Mum's.

Ok I am breaking cover here and will probably have to name change again after this post as it makes me too identifiable. Read and learn!

I am a lawyer and also a divorcee. For years I was in a relationship like yours where my ex (also a lawyer) was always the charming, interesting one with the hangers on who thought he was great. My role was the incubator of his children and the dull one who organised all the practical crap. He used to tell me regularly how dull, boring and unattractive I was. He never praised me or supported me either in my work or outside it, emotionally or practically. The only virtue he would allow was that I was a "good mum". Over the years I came to sort of believe the role he cast me in - because everyone thought he was so charming it must be me - right?

Eventually I pretty much had a breakdown, acquired an eating disorder, lost my job because I just couldn't cope with being spread so thinly any more and I had lost all the confidence in myself which is essential to practice law at a high level, then found out he had cheated on me throughout the 30+ years and 20+ years of marriage we had been together.

We got divorced at my insistence and he did everything he could to hide assets from me. Our final settlement had me and DC sharing assets on one side and him alone on the other in the ratio 1:2 (that in a long marriage where it should have been 50:50) because he was bloody determined that the children and I should have as little as possible and he should keep all the money. I basically had to buy maintenance because the children and I had no income by giving up assets (because the assets were illiquid and he could afford to sit it out whereas I couldn't).

He has had a couple of goes since at trying to avoid paying any maintenance at all even though he freely admits his income has risen. I look back now and I can't believe I bought into all that shit.

The point in this long ramble is that I see a lot of parallels: the need for adoration, the identification of himself as the charming one and you as the dullard, the hiding of "my money", the willingness to treat the mother of his children like crap, the Disney dad role. Your H, like my exH, will ALWAYS put himself first.

These are character defects; they are not fixed by going to Relate, mediation or turning the other cheek. AF has it right. See a solicitor and plan for a divorce, but don't tell him until the day you serve the petition on him. This man is not your friend.

Just to say, be very careful about moving out without your DD as you then might not be considered primary carer anymore and therefore wouldn't be able to get maintenance, etc..., which means he could rightfully stop paying for a flat/help anytime he wants.