Can't afford Relate but MIL is offering to pay - WWYD?

[LazyCake]

DH and I have been having lots of problems, for a very long time. We recently started to receive counselling from Relate, but are really, really struggling to pay for the sessions, which take place every week and cost £65. The counselling has been helpful to a degree, it makes me feel calmer as I am no longer dealing with all the problems and worrying about the future on my own. DH says that he enjoys it (a bit odd, but good I suppose?!)

Anyway, our finances are in chaos, and any discussion of how things might be improved leads to long arguments that go nowhere. This has been going on for years, but has got worse recently. Today I am trying to work out how to feed DD until payday, which is ridiculous as DH is on a good salary. So the added drain on our finances caused by Relate's £65 a week fees is not helping matters.

I suggested to DH that we stop receiving counselling, simply because we cannot afford it. He agreed initially, but then said that he had discussed it with his Mum, who had offered to meet the cost of 10 sessions as a birthday present. There are lots of reasons why I think this is not a good idea - to begin with, it's just a miserable, depressing thing to receive for your birthday, isn't it? And then there's the fact that I think that the eventual outcome of the counselling will be separation. MIL certainly does not realise this - she things we are just having 'a few problems'. She is very traditional, strict Christian upbringing, etc, and this will come as a dreadful blow to her. Also, I don't want DH acting the martyr over the fact he has received such a present - I feel guilty enough.

But if I don't accept MIL's offer to pay, am I throwing away the chance to try to work on our marriage and make thing better for DD? H will certainly reproach me with this for years to come, especially if we do end up separating, and maybe he would be right to do so?

Thanks, familyfarm, that sounds great. I shall certainly PM you.

Mrskeats, I don't have access to that account. The overdraft on the account that I do have access to will be maxed-out by next week.

Omg you most definitely are being abused financially
He sounds like my exh
Turning it all around about me being use,ess with money when what it was, was me not being granted enough money to make it look like I cant manage money!
It's gaslighting, please read up about it and help yourself
You are not the financial fuck up he tells you you are
My ex said I would crash and burn financially after divorcing him but I prospered

Ok so being a sahm was presumably a joint decision so why are you being punished for it?
I personally don't understand all this your money my money thing in a marriage anyway. If you do want your own accounts you should feel you have enough to cover what you need.
Having tons of money in an account you have no access to whilst you worry about food bills is financial abuse pure and simple.

This "ability to double think" is otherwise known as gaslighting.

He has you right where he wants you. Blaming yourself, too frightened to rock the boat, keeping your kids short of food to avoid triggering one of the weird pseudo rants

How is this OK by you ?

Half of everything is legally yours. I suggest you take steps to retrieve it with professional help and get the fuck out of there before your kids turn into messed up fuckwits just like him.

I'm not sure about that, mamas12. I am sure DH would tell a very different story! And I must concede that he is most certainly not enjoying a life of luxury while DD and I are in penury.

Something which I know he feels aggrieved about is that he feels he does not have the money to buy new clothes for work, or dry clean the ones that he already has. His clothes are certainly old, threadbare and ill-fitting, and he goes off to work (in a relatively senior role) looking dishevelled. Partly this is because he does not hang his suits or iron his shirts, but he genuinely does need to spend more money on his work wardrobe. Time and again, I have urged him to do so, either by buying some new shirts/suits once he has been paid, or by taking money out of savings, but he says we cannot afford for him to do so. Likewise, he has complained that he can no longer afford to take proper holidays, which is something that is very important to him.

And DH could make a pretty convincing case that I am the abusive partner, as a year ago I flew off the handle and lashed out at him. I'm very, very ashamed of this and have reflected on it a great deal, so please don't flame me. I've also been horrible to him in lots of other ways.

Actually, come to think of my violent outburst was in response to a threat he made to redirect his salary into an account to which I would have no access. I had made a comment about his work which he did not like. So we definitely have lots of issues about money, but I'm not sure I'd call the relationship abusive. It's definitely mutually destructive though.

I'm just rambling now... If anyone's still reading - thanks!

I don't know about rambling, but you are certainly not listening.

Yes, AnyFucker, he's definitely got issues. I know that he is capable of deceiving his work colleagues and leading them by the nose, as I have gathered that from what he confides in me. He has also told that he sometimes lies to complete strangers about his identity, just for sport or because he feels an irrepressible urge to do so.

But it must be said, most people who know him think he's absolutely fantastic. E.g. one of his ex-students is minding DD this afternoon, and I've read gushing cards she and her classmates have sent him, all about how brilliant/inspirational/life-changingly wonderful he is. He's very feminist in his outlook and almost all of his friends are (younger ) women. We have loads of books on our shelves that colleagues and students have gifted him over the years with affectionate and grateful messages written on the flyleaves.

To be honest I spend half the time thinking I am married to a total psycho and the other half thinking that I must be the biggest bitch in the whole world!

Just to go against the grain here
The counselling is helping
Your husband is on board and trying to change / listen to advice
Your MiL is supportive and realistic eg may not work

Take the money and do it. May really help. Give it your best shot. And mention these issues next session

Presumably as the sahp you have a budget. So why is there no food for the kids?

I'm playing devil's advocate here but he had money and assets, earns well, met you who had no house (maybe assets too), then you got married, had children and difficulties started.
Traditionally the mother did house hold budgeting, paid bills etc. Is he of that mindset? You were at very different life stages when you got together so it can cause issues.

Maybe he is frustrated as he sees you spending money that he works hard for, and he sees it as unnecessary?
Given that you could take half of everything he could be feeling vulnerable. Maybe questioning if it was your plan all along.

If things aren't going well then he may be thinking separation too, and might be trying to limit the money being 'wasted'. For the kid's futures perhaps?

If you are leaving him, get on with it.
If you aren't then consider his perspective on things.

Being positive: you can turn this around. Spend some time doing a budget and make some compromises to afford the counselling (and childcare?). I bet he will be impressed at you making it happen too.

Good luck whichever way you go.

Sorry, AF, think I have been x-posting. I shall certainly think about what you have said.

Thanks, canarywharf for a different perspective. What you say is similar to what my DM advises.

OMG it all sounds so unhealthy.

TBH I think you need to use further sessions to get full financial disclosure from him and draw up a joint plan as to how money is spent and saved etc. It is ridiculous that there are savings yet paying for overdrafts etc. I'd be fuming.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is pretending you are broke whilst he is building a huge nest egg and you are merely an unpaid nanny and housekeeper...

Doesn't matter that the savings are just in his name they are marital assets but what you need is sight of all accounts, who they are with etc.

I would make sorting out the finances a priority in therapy even it means MIL paying for it. No reason he can't repay her out of the £24k savings... which is something you could point out in therapy.

I did tell my then H (now much more a DH) that paying for therapy was MUCH cheaper than a divorce!

He's very feminist in his outlook

His outlook may be but his treatment of you isn't.

Judge a person by the fruit they bear.

You're afraid to raise money with him. When you do he turns it back to being your fault. He holds the vast majority of the wealth in his hands but won't spend any of it. He lies for fun and deceives people. Your love for him has died.

This isn't working and frankly when he realises that and that you want to live and not be cowed and worried about feeding your daughter - you probably need to watch your back.

I'm sorry but I think this is an exceptionally emotionally and financially abusive man. I think you in your heart of hearts know that. I think you know how pointless counselling is because you know you know he will never be honest and you won't ever get to the bottom of the issues. Just more confusion...

I think you have been conditioned not to trust your judgement and instinct.I think this thread is you starting to question that.

Your biggest issue is making sure you go into any separation with enough information to get what you deserve financially.

he had money and assets, earns well, met you who had no house (maybe assets too), then you got married, had children and difficulties started. Yes, this is a fair summary of the situation and I think close to how DH sees it.

Presumably as the sahp you have a budget. Yes and no. DH does not like budgets (sorry, I know that sounds weird), so thus far has not been willing to participate in drawing one up. He says we should each live on £5 a day, but my brain just doesn't work like that. I should have just got on with it and done it myself (and I have attempted to, a number of times), trouble is, I have been trying to get him to cooperate in reducing monthly bills (some of ours are ridiculous, like £59 for broadband alone) and he has been resistant to this. I'd say the blame for not having a budget is 50/50. I have tried to sort one out, but evidently not hard enough.

YY to being positive. I have got him to agree to helping me to write a budget tonight, after DD is in bed.

So why is there no food for the kids? There has always been food, but it's sometimes been stressful - payday loans, borrowing from my parents, etc.

He is feminist in his outlook?

excuse me while I laugh out loud

He might come across as a "feminist" to his young female students but the rest if us don't belive that for one minute

Incidentally...were you one of his "young female students" ?

It certainly looks like you have him on some sort of pedestal. Fuck knows why.

I wouldn't take the money from MiL. But I'd tell DH to use some of 'your' savings instead.

Tell him you'll invest 10 more weeks of your time in meeting at relate to agree an adult, fair and workable financial relationship which should form The basis of the whole of your relationship going forward, ie compromise, sharing, equal status within the marriage etc.

If this is not achievable within the 10 weeks, then your relationship is un-salvageable.

Thank his DM for her offer, and tell her that you and he have decided to use savings instead. She needs have no other vested interest than that.

What sort of salary are we talking about here, he sounds like a lecturer, so over £50k I expect?

I was initially thinking, well, just have the counselling fortnightly, halve the cost. But now I'm thinking it's too late, you need to move on from him.

Tell him to look up feminist in a dictionary.
I don't know how you can put up with this crap tbh.
Declaring all assets for divorce could be interesting if it goes that way.
Wouldn't mind betting he has other accounts you dont know about. But you will never know now will you?
Get rid you will be better off in many ways. What are you teaching your children about relationships??

I'll go against the grain here and say I think you should take MIL's offer. Even if the counselling brings you to separation point, you have the chance of a better separation (for want of a better word) with Relate than without.

But, don't have the counselling as a birthday present. Instead ask for a birthday present of something dh would actually have bought/ needed anyway (a supermarket delivery of some nice meals? some new work clothes? a weekend break? getting the car fixed?) and use the money you would have used on the food/clothes/car to pay for the counselling.

At 40 he would have had very fixed ideas about his life and finances.Perhaps when you got together you were the junior partner but as time has gone on you are rightly asking for an equal relationship and he's not used of partnership.

He does seem to have a deprivation style of money management.Did he grow up in relative poverty?

His approach to money is just bizarre.

£5 per day each , to include supermarket food??? That isn't much tbh

Is that £5 for him

and £5 for you & DD???

Did he actually want to have children with you?

I'm so sorry OP I really feel for you.

Relationships like this are not healthy. You're not even working as a team yet you have children to think about. You shouldn't be getting pay day loans!! I think you do need the good advice from women here who've extricated themselves from similarly abusive situations. Please take it, even in small steps if that's more manageable for you.

Could you challenge him about what this £5 is supposed to cover?

Does your £5 pay for you and DD while his is him only - instantly we know why you run out of money.

Does it include electricity, gas, broadband etc? Are you on the cheapest deals - you could save him money.

Does he actually know how much a meal costs to make? A chicken? A packet of fishfingers? Suspect he hasn't a clue.

What are the savings for? You know about the £24000. But there's also £100 saved, an investment account and so on. Money is being wasted on payday loans - what's in his current account while you are forced to borrow from your parents and pay interest on loans and can't feed his child.

If you can't crack the budget with him you have to leave - and take what you are entitled to from his savings/house/pension/child maintenance with you. You will be far far better off than you are now.

He's a liar and a miser and he is financially abusing you.