Giving up my children

[Throughautomaticdoors]

I've had severe pnd for six months and nothing has helped. I feel like I'm either going to end up dead or as an inpatient. The only way I can see to avoid those things is to leave dh and give up any access to my children.
I know my parents would still want to see them. Would that just be at the discretion of dh and his mother who he would go and live with? If I'm ever well enough to work I presume I'd pay maintenance?

This is all the PND talking. If it wasn't the vaccine (which millions of kids have survived without) it would be something else. You need to speak to your go, health visitor or someone similar. Stop expressing and the range of meds you can have will increase.

Expressing and bottle feeding for 6 months is an amazing thing to have done. It's ok to set this aside now as your DD starts in food.

I was so bad I was on drugs I couldn't breastfeed on. It took me 3 changes to get past the crippling guilt. I was convinced ds was going to die because he didn't have the breastmilk antibodies. I used to fantasise about driving into bridges on the motorway and often thought about who would be better parents than I was (it was a loooong list)

This all sounds so familiar but there is a way past it. Please believe us who have walked your path. Go to your docs again and get some different meds. Stop expressing so you can sleep better. Start taking baby steps forward. Keep talking to us if you need us.

You can do this. I promise.

I don't honestly feel that the GP, different medication, CBT, being an inpatient etc will help me because to me the problem is the rotavirus. I know on some level that is not rational

No, it's not rational and that is an awful place to be. I have felt exactly the same. Put that to one side and hold on to the little bit of you that knows it's not rational. Perhaps you could say, 'Just in case I'm wrong in thinking it's all about the virus, I will try this...'

I know what you mean about thinking deep down it is not the depression. I couldn't believe it either. In my case I think it has been the medication working that has convinced me otherwise - just seeing that medicine has changed my attitude has helped me believe that it really is a chemical imbalance in my brain.

Gonetosee has a good idea there. As a mother, you want to try everything to make life better for your children: even things you don't really believe in, just in case it does help after all. Even things that are scary to you, in the hope it will help the kids.

You're in a really difficult situation, inside and out .

What you need is someone to tell you that it's the PND that is making you feel despair, and it's tricking you into thinking that it's never going to get better, and nothing will ever help it change and it's all your fault.

I think this is what's missing at the moment, someone strong and knowledgeable to keep on telling you to trust them and keep you anchored in reality, outside the awfulness of PND which twists everything around.

I know it feels like you know the real truth, and others can't know how bad you are, how terrible things have been, and how final everything is. But it really is the PND speaking. It's an awful illness, it tricks you and it tinges everything with fear and gloom and despair.

And you need a way out. But not the one your illness is telling you to do. Please try and believe that although it feels like the only thing you can do, that it's wrong and acting on these feelings will end up hurting you even more. You need a way out that's about getting through the PND, not plunging you further into it.

When I'm depressed (& I do have it a lot on and off), I try and 'fake it till I make it'. I try and do what I know is the proper things to do, even if it feels pointless and hollow and just never going to work... But even though my heart feels frozen and terrified, I just keep plodding on.
I try and think, that if nothing will work that I've got nothing to lose by going through the motions... doing what I can until it does slowly have some effect, and I slowly feel a bit better, and hope creeps back.

How is your GP? Any good? Can you ask someone else to phone and run the gauntlet of the receptionist? Once you have an appointment, you can ask the GP direct to book you in for a follow up appointment so you don't have to deal with scary things at the mo.

Keep on listening to the advice in here, from people that have shared the same experiences as you

Good advice, MiscellaneousAssortment.

I also find that it helps to force oneself to think positive and forbid thoughts that put you down. It all seems so fake when you start doing it, but with time it becomes natural.

*When I'm depressed (& I do have it a lot on and off), I try and 'fake it till I make it'. I try and do what I know is the proper things to do, even if it feels pointless and hollow and just never going to work... But even though my heart feels frozen and terrified, I just keep plodding on.
I try and think, that if nothing will work that I've got nothing to lose by going through the motions...

Such brilliant advice. I really hope the OP takes that on board. Just get up shower and get dressed. One small step.

I also really wonder where her own mum is in this. It sounded like she has her own problems but surely she'd want to do what she can to help, even if its not a great deal? Her own mum is far more trustworthy than her MIL in this because her own mum will want to help her to keep the children rather than wishing to steal from from her as the MIL does.

throughautomaticdoors how are you feeling today? I hope you have been able to speak to someone about how you are feeling and received some much needed support.

I'm doing a little better... I've been busy as it's the weekend so ds not at school. Being distracted helps but I'm exhausted now and I've been up until gone midnight the last couple of nights trying to tidy my house as it's about the only chance I get.

I still think if I'd vaccinated for rotavirus I'd be ok, but maybe I wouldn't. Dd is doing so well now, she's on the 90tj centiles for height and weight non-adjusted for being just over 6 weeks prem, she's sitting, she's rolling, she's trying to crawl, she can wave, she's babbling, all the normal stuff you'd expect at 6 months so she seems to have caught up ok. I just keep thinking how it'll set her back when she gets ill from rotavirus and has to be readmitted to hospital. I have this notion that it will affect her development hugely. I've been googling it again and it says 1 in 10 children have to be admitted to hospital. I don't know any children that have been admitted to hospital for gastro bugs personally but I still feel like I kind of deserve it to be dd for not vaccinating her. The trouble is she lives with the consequences of my bad decision. Or worse, it's fatal.

I was thinking of you today. It's great your DD has done lots of milestones and you went for a walk. I love getting some fresh air and sun, even if it's just planting/faffing in the garden or laying on a blanket with DD while she tries to eat the grass.
I am really a bit clueless about the rotavirus so had a quick look and looks like if you are really careful about them not getting dehydrated it should be alright. Plus your DD is old enough to be able to drink the electrolytes if needed now.
Do you like plants? If so, gardening has really helped me this time round. I particularly like radishes as they only take 4 weeks to grow from seeds and they are very tasty. They can grow on a windowsill in a bit of compost. It could be a fun thing to do with your DS too :).

You don't deserve anything bad for your DD. She is healthy and happy thanks to you.

Why on earth are you so worried about rotavirus? Your baby is healthy and strong. She's not a tiny baby anymore and she will be absolutely fine even if she gets it. Its not a lethal disease in developed countries.

I don't know why you didn't have her vaccinated, but it really doesn't matter. You didn't have the vaccine when you were a baby and nor did any of us, and we are not dead.

Glad to hear youre feeling a bit better anyway and since keeping busy seems to help you then that's what you should do. This way you can steadily edge back to being normal.

OP - I don't know if this will help at all, but you are reading the statistics wrongly. One in 5 children are poorly enough to see a doctor, and of those one in 10 need to be admitted to hospital. So one in 50 children, or to put it another way only 2% of children who catch Rotavirus become ill enough to require hospital treatment. This is generally due to dehydration, and it is rare for a child to be in hospital for more than 24/48 hours with Rotavirus, and the only treatment they get is generally rehydration (so a nasogastric tube to help them get more fluid).

If your child does get Rotavirus and is poorly enough to require treatment in hospital it will NOT have long term effects. Particularly because your worry on this will not allow you to ignore symptoms and I am certain you would seek prompt help. The worst that would happen would be a couple of days in hospital making sure she is keeping fluids down properly.

Honestly, I feel for you. I recognise your bleakness and the inability to see how things can ever change. But they can change, and they will change. You just have to hold on. Your children need you. You want them to grow up knowing they have a mother who cares enough to do anything for them - to keep going even though there seems no point - because without that you take so much away. I know it doesn't feel like it can ever get better, but it really really will.

No sadly it's definitely around 10% hospital admittance. 12,700 out of 140,000 annual cases. It seems high but that is the NHS stats...
So I've given my child a one in ten chance of hospital admission. It doesn't feel great.

Aerfen - I delayed the vaccine for a few reasons and ass given some misinformation about when she could have it. Then the chance was gone. Yes I agree we didn't have it and are still alive. However my parents didn't have the measles vaccine and are still alive she healthy but no one can disagree that the measles vaccine saves lives.

Ass? Thanks phone. Was

My heart is breaking for you and your babies. Not because I think you are a bad Mum but because your pnd is clouding your judgement so much. It is an illness, it is not your fault. You felt bad about vaccine and delaying it, which you shouldn't but please don't delay getting more help. Your babies need their Mum. They need you to call the doctors and put up with the receptionist (who btw doesn't need to know why you need an appointment). Does your friend that you went for a walk with know all of this? Keep talking. Even if you didn't have pnd the trauma of a prem baby and adjusting to second child is hard. Everyone feels guilty that the first child doesn't get as much attention. Trying to express still haunts me. Your dh should be helping out. Never changing a nappy etc. Please keep talking and get more help.

10% of hospital admittances is not the same as a 10% chance of being admitted to hospital, OP.

But the most important thing is that the failure to vaccinate was outside your control. You were given the wrong information so that is the fault of the person who gave you the wrong information.

It is but I thought she was wrong. I questioned her twice as I didn't think it was the right information.

If 1 in 10 are admitted to hospital surely that means a 10% chance? Or is that not how it works?

I suspect this won't help you but the rotavirus vaccine is really not something you should be upset about. DD was just too old for it and I'm not bothered to be honest, it's quite an unpleasant vaccine.

So the stats: Rotavirus causes about 140,000 cases of diarrhoea a year in the under-5s in the UK. It has been estimated that approximately 18,000 children are hospitalised annually in England and Wales as a result of rotavirus-related disease. However, there are 3914000 under 5s in the uk. So 3.5% of children under 5 will experience rotavirus each year. 0.4% will need hospital care. 99.6% of children will either not have symptoms or it'll just be a short self limiting gastro bug, which they all get, frequently!

Which if you think about it is much more realistic than your 10% fixation, which can't possibly be true or we'd all know loads of children who'd been to hospital with rotavirus!

The vaccine is not without side effects either. You didn't do anything wrong. If you accept this I suspect you'll transfer your health anxiety to something else. Please, please get some help. You have mental health illness OP and for the sake of yourself and your children you must do something about it. Ask for help, from anywhere you can get it. Go back t your doctor and be honest.

This is from the NHS choices site , I think it's the one you are referring to

Rotavirus is a highly infectious stomach bug that typically strikes babies and young children, causing an unpleasant bout of diarrhoea, sometimes with vomiting, tummy ache and fever. Most children recover at home within a few days, but nearly one in five will need to see their doctor, and one in 10 OF THESE end up in hospital as a result of complications such as extreme dehydration

The key words you are missing are OF THESE.

So of all the children who ever get this, only some will have symptoms

Of these who have symptoms , only some will be taken to the doctor ( they are guessing at one in 5 because they have no idea about children who don't go to the doctor and nearly all children are exposed to the virus )

Of those who see a doctor , 10% end up in hospital .

So it's only 10% of those who are ill enough to see a doctor . It's not 10% of all children who have the virus .

So 90% of children who are so unwell that they are taken to the GP are sent home with their mums .

And of the small proportion who go into hospital , they get some fluids and are out in 24-48 hours .

Your baby could have ALREADY been exposed to this virus ( especially as you have an older child at school ) and she's not been unwell BUT her body has been building up immunity to it . If she does get it again, she may have some mild sickness and diarrhoea . In that case you will give her some water and calpol and she will be fine.

Your baby is strong and healthy and you have given her a great start with all the BM.

The person who is not well is YOU and you need to ask for more help

op can you see how it's the depression that is making you cling on to there inflated numbers and you're not seeing the full picture.

I'm a primary school specialist and I see plenty of kids, loads actually with my job as its county wide! And in 9 years in this job I have seen 1 hospital admittance, for dehydration. 24 hours later and the boy was home, 3 days later back in his school. It's rare to die from rotavirus, very very rare and almost all kids get a sick bug in their life.

Has your son had the vaccine? No. Then why are you not fixated on him? Because the vaccine is not so important. PND is clouding your judgement.

Call your GP today please.

Can you go see your GP today?

I could say that rotavirus is honestly, no big deal in the UK. Or that I had all my vaccinations but can't hold immunity to anything so catch everything every time it goes round - I'm still here and fine.

The important thing, though, is getting help so your mind doesn't frantically search for something to worry about. At the moment, that is rotavirus. When your PND is better, that will be manageable. I promise you.

Would you consider an inpatient ward so that DD has nurses around all day and people can help you with her so you can sleep? You'd get lots of intense help then. It might help to feel that she's somewhere safe already until you can think straighter. What do you think?

Morning OP,

How are you today?

If you can't face the receptionist, I'm happy to call for you, just PM me your details.

My lovely SIL had PND which was made worse by my mother (in my opinion) and my brothers lack of support for her. I remember her sitting sobbing after a visit to my mum because of all the shitty comments and my brother telling her to pull herself together (to my mother's delight). Very strong words were had and DSIL finally got the support and treatment she needed. It took a while to find the right level of antidepressants, it was very much trial and error.

15 years later she is (still) a brilliant mum, who has a fantastic relationship with both her children. She and DBro are in a better place and my mother's toxicity is controlled better.

Also, give your health visitor a call, it's what they are there for.

I know a child who became disabled from a vaccine (not MMR) whatever you do there's always the slim possibility you'll wish you did something else but the fixation and obsession is what PND or AND does - I had it OP, it developed into full blown OCD over the years but I now have years I can look back on and tell you all the varying obsessions Iv had.

Reassurance actually made it worse for me because it validated that I had a legitimate fear (I didn't, I had disproportionate obsessions)

Please seek help today - it's out there

You really do need to go and see your GP again and explain your thoughts and fears.

I know it's the illness talking but all kids get tummy bugs/rotavirus - usually at nursery and primary school. They get over it!

I used to work on a children's ward and we quite often had kids come in with rotavirus. They were given extra fluids and monitored and bounced back right as rain.

See your GP

I guess even if she gets over it ok I just feel so awful they'd she'll suffer for a while. I can't stand the thought that she'll suffer and I could have prevented it. She's so happy and cheerful ordinarily.