wedding dilemma about my alcoholic parents

[kingvardos]

I have read this site for years and been wanting to put this out there to ask for words of wisdom as I am stuck. I don’t know if anyone can advise. I am getting married to the most wonderful man next August. It is a huge deal as neither of us have been married before. We are in our early forties and both have 2 children. I met him after 8 years of being single (with a few dates in between) and coming out of a 14 year unhappy relationship (with my childrens’ father).

My dilemma: my mum is an alcoholic, and so is her husband (my stepfather). At my twin brothers’ wedding 6 years ago, she and my SD stole other people’s drinks and poured them into their glasses....and she got very drunk and made an awful scene.

I am terrified she will do the same. I have basically had the most honest chat with her about my fears, and reminded her of the many many times the pair who are now in their 70s and 80s have fallen over drunk and made family events just so excruciating. She denies every event I remembered and said my memory was shot.
It isn’t sadly.

My stepdad who is very arrogant amongst other traits (think racist, homophobic etc) demands to meet my fiance before the wedding but I would rather pull my own teeth out, as would he ….(he has heard both of them very drunk on the phone around 8pm when I call) …..I can’t face it. I know they should meet but an overwhelming urge I have is to uninvite the pair to the wedding and go no contact. Both my brothers say I will regret it, you know what they are like etc.....they will never give up.....and are making me feel guilty. But they both emigrated to Australia years ago and are out of the worst of it.

But this wedding is small (30 people including us) and only my best friends are going and one brother on my side. They all know what they are like...........I am terrified of what they may do …..(I am not discounting dancing on tables and saying highly inappropriate things to our guests - especially my fiance’s family as they are very normal)

I appreciate any advice. My back history of awfulness from the pair is too long to go into but I will just say it was bad and has ended me up in counselling to understand why I grew up with such selfish people.
Thank you

"Could you perhaps get married without them and then take them out for dinner ( just the four of you) and say we got married quietly?"

I would not advise this simply because your mother is a toxic person as well as an alcoholic (as is also her H). Apart from your mother exploding verbally at you in particular they would certainly expect you to pay for dinner (because they have no money as its all spent on drink).

Going no contact with these two post marriage would be a great idea although one you perhaps cannot countenance at present.

helenatroy they already know we have booked the venue, so we couldn't sneak off quietly.....the deposit is paid. There aren't many good outcomes. I tend to lose my temper with her as she talks over me and doesn't listen, and just tutts and pooh poohs anything I am trying to get across. I spoke to my fiance, and we are agreed SD won't meet before the wedding.

No point. They are the ones that are bothered, and not us.
So that is something she will go mad at. But we are firm on it.
They will have to suck it up.
I will then see what she says when I tell her my fears about them getting drunk. If when I speak to her she is already pissed I have my answer. If she is sober and agrees to cancel the hotel night the night before the wedding and stay elsewhere I would risk letting her come.

My twin is so used to dealing with them he would easily remove their drama so I wouldnt be aware.

Hang on - I thought it was at your twin's party that they stole drinks and caused an awful scene? What happened about "easily removing their drama" then?

He noticed them unfortunately and got them a taxi. We are very close and he'd hate for the same to happen to him. I'm considering drafting her an email pre phone call as I'm not sure she's going to listen properly. I know what I want to say but it's going to hurt her. But I can't sleep at the moment lost my libido completely and it's all I think about. :(

To me! Not him! Stupid phone

I'm sorry, but do you seriously think that you can set rules ( don't stay in the hotel the night before , promise to be good ) and this will cure her alcoholism ?

Really ?

I know you are desperately seeking a way of fixing her but you can't. You didn't cause this and you can't cure it .

They are not willing or able to behave appropriately or remain sober. They will not respond sensibly to your worries. So if you invite them you have to assume they will behave very badly and likely spoil aspects of the day for you and your DH to be.

You seem deep, deep in the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) over this.

Not inviting them doesn't equate to going NC: if they don't like it and your M chooses to stop contact, that could well be a very good thing IMO.

Your brothers do not have your interests at heart, as PPs say.

Oh, and it does NOT sound like she was/is "lovely" sober. Your childhood sounds awful. She failed and is still failing you as a parent.

I also don't see why you're trying to pander to them. They've already gone against your wishes by staying at the venue the night before - so any promises of good behaviour that you manage to drag out of them mean absolutely nothing. Remove all the stress, uninvite them - if she has a tantrum, tough, time for you to be a bit selfish I think

LOVE the dress - total derail but if you can afford it I'd recommend getting it altered to fit if the length is an issue (tripping) or there's anywhere it's not quite comfortable? People think dressmakers will only do so for new dresses but that's not true. It also makes it feel it's 'personalised'? which is a lovely feeling!

Did your flying monkeys brothers have them at their weddings?

'Did you know that if more than 50% of the children of a marriage live in Australia, the parents can emigrate without a problem? You have two brothers, right? Tell them that your mother has found this out and is planning to live near them. THEN tell them (after the panic) that this is why you don't want them at your wedding.' LOVE this idea! - regardless of wedding! Put the flying monkeys in their box!!

'This is what I would do. Tell them you cannot risk them coming and getting drunk, so they are not invited. If they get terribly upset then you deal with that. But,if they are anything like my dad, they will get over it really quickly, because, sorry to say this, you are just not that important. Not as important as the booze anyway.' But yea this!

I wish I could provide 'an Attila' to everyone with a shit family her advice is always spot on! (Are you a counsellor in real life Attila?)

Fuck waiting till Sunday on HER say so - you'll just build up anxiety. Tell her now/ASAP!

' you weren't invited to THEIR wedding. ' this too!

As an aside I find this

People will always say you'll regret cutting your parents out 'when they pass'...my addict father died six years ago, I hadn't seen him for ten years prior, I felt regret for all of one day after he died. Then remembered that he was poison and my life was calmer and more positive without him.

Strangely reassuring. I'm nc with my alcoholic father and this is the argument I get from my mother 'you'll regret it when he's gone'

'Don't invite them. Send them a crate bottle of wine and tell them to stay at home and drink your health' I suspect given the choice they'd choose this.

Sorry Wendle massively disagree. Your mother is not ops mother for starters. I'm also not a big fan of the 'addiction is an illness' thing being used to excuse treating others like shit!

Op & fiancé congratulations and have a fabulous day WITHOUT them.

It's up to my fiancée at the end of the day as it's her family. I'll support her in whatever she decides.

She would like to get married with her mum there, but not if she is going to make a dick out of herself. One option is just to invite her mum and not SD. This would no doubt cause another argument but I can't help but think she would be better behaved on her own without the pompous old git of a SD.

I think the suggestion of phoning her sooner rather than later is a good one. We would both like to get this sorted out.

Hi Surelyitsnot,

Re your comment:-
"She would like to get married with her mum there, but not if she is going to make a dick out of herself. One option is just to invite her mum and not SD. This would no doubt cause another argument but I can't help but think she would be better behaved on her own without the pompous old git of a SD".

How is this going to be sorted out; that seems to suggest that there is some possible solution here.

These types of posts become more often than not solely about the alcoholic. Alcoholism is truly a family disease and it does not just affect the alcoholic. Her mother's alcoholism has also affected your lady markedly and in a multitude of ways, her own FOG is a factor. It has also undoubtedly played a huge role in her brothers emigrating to Australia in the first place.

She cannot have her mother there because there is a huge risk that she is going to ruin your day. I would take it as a given that her mother is going to make a tit of herself; she is still a toxic person and alcoholic and there is no evidence to suggest otherwise. Her mother has also not fundamentally altered in terms of personality since her younger days. She will never agree to not having her enabler H there; these two are out of the same toxic mould. She wanted you as her fiancé to meet her H, she wants you as a couple to pay for their hotel stay (mainly because they have drunk all their money away).

Phoning her may not work out well either; she may be too insensible to answer the phone or have any sort of rational conversation. Infact I would suggest that you make a joint phone call to her mother today rather than the OP herself. It is imperative that the two of you present a united front whatever happens. I also doubt whether her mother is actually ever stone cold sober anyway; an alcoholic's primary relationship is with drink and their thoughts centre on where the next drink is going to come from.

What do you want to achieve from such a conversation?.
What sort of conversation do you think will result, what will likely happen is that your good lady will just become more upset as a result of her mother's drunken tirades. Her mother will never be reasonable towards either of you as long as she is still alive.

Going no contact with the two of them is really your only option as a couple going forward.

The 3cs re alcoholism;
You did not cause this
You cannot control this
You cannot cure this

(baconyum - thank you for your kind comments re me. Am not a counsellor but a parent and mature student).

Studying to become a counsellor? (I hope)

OP's fiance, you are trying hard to bargain with and hope from the best from people who are very unlikely indeed to be reasonable and behave well. If you invite MiL even without her awful partner you need to assume MiL will cause and upset for your fiance on your wedding day.

The choice is invite her and accept that the day won't be as you want it, or don't invite her and deal with her at arms length. You really can't expect her to respect your wishes and play nice.

They will agree to whatever the hell you ask, but at your wedding they will totally forget /ignore everything they've agreed to, get pissed and be abusive to your guests. I wouldn't bother wasting your breath.

Just don't invite them. You'll have a heap of crap to deal with either way, but at least if they don't come you'll get to have a nice wedding day.

Dozer, I guess you're right. At the minute it's a bit like trying to choose from three different flavours of shit. The phone call (which we will have jointly) will probably dictate which one we choose. For me personally, I'd rather not have them there. If it were my family, I might feel differently. But yeah, we are both still under the FOG respectively. I have had counselling to help me deal with my past. My own mother let me down quite badly recently (not with alcohol, just being completely aloof at an important time for me, my fiancée and my children).

Families can surely suck sometimes, hey?

I know what I want to say but it's going to hurt her

Does this really matter? I know you'd like to - somehow, anyhow - mend the situation, but by your mother's own choice it's simply not going to happen; her priority is drink, and forgive me for saying this but you come a long way down the list, just as has happened so often

Right now you're giving her the power to tie you in knots, and while it's not easy after so many years of conditioning, the good news is that you can choose not to do that if you really want to

What they say in the phone call has nothing whatsoever do with how they'll behave on the day. What are you both hoping for from them - promises to behave appropriately that are fulfilled? Because even if they make those promises they're unlikely to keep them.

Thank you all. I guess the phone call is one chance to see if she will acknowledge her utter selfish behaviour and TALK to me honestly. Last week when this happened it was the first time I have EVER said how I really feel about the past. So we have just begun and I feel stronger than I have ever felt and she does NOT like it one bit.

I brought up the subject of neglect. How we were invisible. One classic is she let us go alone at 5 (me and my twin) and we were bought ice creams by a man that had stalked her for years. He drove off with us. Took mum ages to notice. He luckily brought us back in 2 hrs and I have v little memory of him but do remember finding him in our back garden and watching the house as a kid and felt v scared of him.

She denied it until I got it out of her that she had told me when pissed once. Couldn't deny it then. ugh!

I am listening to ALL of your 100% don't invite her responses. I guess I am terrified to do but must

And on a more happy note Baconyum (can't do bold!) I will get the dress shortened as I am only 5 ft 2
:)

I guess I am terrified to (not invite her) but must

Well done

And you know what? The odd thing is that, while it will cause ructions for a while, you'll actually feel better in the end for doing it. Now that your forties have come round she's had enough of your time and concern ... this is your chance to move forward into a much better future and a new life with your lovely husband to be

I know you have paid the deposit but would the venue let you change the date/time without too much cost to you?
You don't then even have to let her know.
You know if she attends she won't behave, my exH had a relative like this and everyone got very anxious at weddings funerals and parties because of "lack of restraint". She ruined her son's wedding for him, her DIL was furious and embarrassed.
You neither want this or need this, you didn't go to her wedding, why should she come to yours?

Ah you're a shorty like me! Yea get it altered.

And don't worry about hurting her feelings, she hasn't cared much for yours.

Please consider calling BACP and see what therapists are in your locality. An alternative would be to call Al-anon as they are very helpful to family members of problem drinkers.

Would also reiterate what Baconyum wrote not worrying about hurting your mothers feelings (you consider her at all because you are a nice person. This is also part of the FOG. However, your mother is not and never has been a nice person) because she has never given you or your siblings any due consideration whatsoever. Its always been about her and what she wants/needs.

AttilaTheMeerkat sadly you are all right and it's making me so so sad. For me and for her. I am remembering more and more. None of it good. I need to write a letter to her. And I wouldnt mind if I sent it to you what you think. Ie too much?