When red flags aren't really red

[Hiphopopotamus]

Hi everyone. Been reading a lot on here about red flags and abusive relationships. I was wondering if anyone else was in the same position as me - where things taken out of context look bad, but are actually part of a good relationship. I just find it a bit worrying when sometimes these types of things come up, and everyone automatically assumes that the relationship is awful.

Contact - my DP expects me to stay in contact with him unless I've told him I'm going to be busy. He has no issue if I genuinely can't talk but he will worry if I don't respond within the hour if I haven't told him I'll be busy.

He tells me what I can and can't wear - or rather, he tells me what he'd prefer. He doesn't like me wearing anything revealing in public so out of respect for him, I don't.

There are quite a few more things like this, but hopefully you get the general gist. Our relationship is loving, kind and supportive, despite some things that could easily be picked up as being 'red flags'. Can anyone else identity with this.

If your bar for acceptable behaviour is set at 'never hits me' something is very wrong.

The thing is op, a lot of posters have been in abusive relationships, as I have, so we know the signs.

The thing is lots of us have been down this road and recognise the behaviour.

Also your mindset does seem to make you vulnerable to abuse (as I was). This for example: "He's never ever hit me. How can it be wrong."

There's a lot that can be wrong without violence.

Hopefully we're all wring and like you say it's just a snapshot out of context. But if you never stand up to him you won't know if you are allowing this freely or if actually there are consequences for "disobeying" and you're on a path to a very unhealthy relationship.

Maybe, if you're not ready to take this on board, start noticing when he tries to control you. Maybe even speak to a friend in real life about it and see what they say

On a complete tangent, I love your username btw. I don't usually pay much attention to usernames, but it's great. :)

Ria you beat me to it.

OP, I tell my DH what to wear or, more accurately, what not to wear. He owns a pair of truly disgusting pants, I've banned him from wearing them. If he disobeys me, he'll know he won't be getting any action that day, because they literally are so bad they make my clitoris hide. If I'm not there to see them, I don't give a crap if he wears them though. That is a red flag that isn't really a red flag.

What you describe is a red flag that is actually a red flag. If he doesn't like you wearing clothes that are too revealing it means he doesn't trust you or thinks you are his property, or both. As for knowing where you are at all times, I would feel suffocated, but I understand that we're all different. However, I've known couples like this, the motivation never comes from a good place.

I think I'm with you OP on this.

I don't see it as controlling if you agree with your partner's views e.g. if you also believe you shouldn't wear anything revealing. Then maybe you just appreciate his help deciding if something is revealing or not.

I don't think you'll find many people who share your views on here though.

you haven't mentioned your respective cultural backgrounds - not that it matters when it comes to controlling and abusive men.

He doesn't like other men to be able to see parts of me that he thinks only he should. I indulge him in this and respect it

But I do belong to him, as he belongs to me

i grew up in a very traditional asian culture......and i wish i'd charged £1 for every time i was subjected to that kind of indoctrination cos i'd be a squillionnaire by now

It's one thing to share views and opinions, it's quite another when your actions end up being controlled by others reactions.

We are each individuals first, and being one half of a couple doesn't erase that. Healthy relationships are where you can share opinions and still feel comfortable being yourself.

when people used to say that to me, my replies were -
"i am not responsible for the way some men choose to behave"
"i am NOT inviting/inciting/encouraging/seducing men by revealing some bare flesh/close fitting clothes."
"wearing my own choice of clothes does NOT mean i am flaunting your property at other men"
"i am more than a body. i am a human being. treat me with the same respect and consideration you want for yourself"
"you don't have to like it...but you can respect it - unless you choose to disrespect"

... when it comes down to it, anyone with an attitude like his DOES view the other person as their property. They don't hesitate to use any means of manipulation and control to get you 'in line'. Indoctrination/brainwashing is very insidious and usually disguises itself behind love/care/concern/protection, most of us don't know it's happening to us until we 'wake up'. Others never wake up.

If this was in any way healthy you wouldn't have had that thought of 'i feel like i need to ask someone who doesn't know me/my life'. That's your gut instinct/intuition whispering to you that something isn't right-don't ignore it.

i guess the only way for you to know what is your truth is to experience being yourself without any imposed limits regarding clothing. when he shares his view/opinion, thank him for sharing it with you, and then tell him you've decided you're wearing it.
A normal/healthy response will be one where he doesn't make a big deal out of it, doesn't try and make you feel guilty, and he doesn't play games like being moody/silent/passive to 'punish' you for it.

If his reaction to you doing something as normal as choosing what clothes to wear is the opposite of the above, well then hopefully you will wake up from the illusion.

If both parties don't like revealing clothes , then the Op wouldn't buy any in the first place. But she has bought what her OH deems as revealing clothes which she only wears at home . (Sorry to talk about you OP)

Maybe she bought them to wear at home?

Without going into your particular post... I guess the thing is, that a "red flag" isnt a definite "stop sign", more a general warning to take extreme caution.

So while something may be a red flag behaviour, if you evaluate it and know that it is not a "stop sign" because xyz, then fine. However the more red flags there are, and the less you can explain them away, the more it turns into a "stop sign" situation.

If that makes any sense?

"Why would I test him with something I know would make him really unhappy?"

Because it'll give you a damn good idea of what he'll be like once you're married/pregnant

It NEVER starts with hitting. It starts with what YOU are describing in an early, not even living near let alone together yet relationship.

It's breaking down YOUR boundaries, convincing you that it's reasonable (about respect).

All abusers are very charming, convincing, excellent debaters (can talk people round).

My mother went from a mini skirted, confident, fun, successful career woman to

a woman who didn't dare wear skirts at all, only wears crew necks, long hair (not her choice), sahm (not her choice), no friends, little contact with her family (she was 'allowed' one 30 minute call a week with her mother, one week a year to see her family).

This did not happen overnight. When they first started dating her family and friends liked him too, then gradually he'd say things like - you don't have the best legs for skirts love, that tops a bit low cut, are you going out without me AGAIN?!,

He didn't hit her until she was pregnant with me - a common trigger for control/emotional abuse to escalate to violence.

She's been battered, bruised, strangled, threatened, he's threatened us (the dc) (that if she left he'd track us down and kill us all).

He's now bedridden and still

She's not allowed to use the landline for anything but household admin

She only goes out once a week to do the food shop.

Please look at
How abuse starts
Cycle of abuse

I suspect as others do that you've started this thread because you KNOW it's wrong and dangerous and possibly people who care about you in real life have said so too.

If nobody in your real life knows - ask yourself why you haven't told them.

Embarrassed? Ashamed? Because they'll tell you to leave?

The clothes thing - if I bought a dress I loved that he found far too revealing, I wouldn't wear it out. I might keep it and wear it when I was just with him

This doesn't sound as if she buys clothes just to wear indoors. I'm just worried for her.

How about stopping with the telling him where you are all the time? It isn't healthy. If he's a worrier then pandering to it makes it worse not better. He has to work out how to be OK with not knowing where you are at any moment. You could say that directly to him with no sugar coating and it wouldn't be mean or disrespectful.

It would be a really good test of whether it genuinely is a loving equal relationship or whether he expects you to modify your perfectly reasonable life to stop him from feeling unreasonable anxiety (which is what drives a fair amount of abusive behaviour).

The 'belonging' and the 'respect' are interesting turns of phrase OP - do you have a faith or a particular cultural background? Someone above mentioned Asian culture - personally I know there are evangelical Christian communities that kind of reinforce this stuff.

I think the constant contact must seem sweet to start with - I wonder what your friends and colleagues think of it?

You're probably reeling - you don't have to come back to this thread but just as we're wondering why you posted as you did, think about why others have posted as they have - there is a lot of firsthand experience of abusive relationships here but also there is a lot of recovery - and with that comes wisdom, which I so hope you will let speak to you.

I would much rather op learned from our experiences than went through hell to learn from her own!

I know you say you respect him, but you never ever find it suffocating? You never get that little spark of exasperation or frustration?

There is nothing wrong with a partner expressing a preference. However, the difference is in his reaction. With s previous partner who was controlling I modified my behaviour ostensibly because I wanted to but actually I was scared of the consequences. With my current dh, I listen to his opinion on things but in the end I do what I want because I feel safe.

He sounds very controlling to me

If you didn't reply to a text or answer the phone how would he react? Would it be worry or anger? That reaction shoW's the difference. I has an ex who apparently 'only got jealous because he cared'
I went out one night and was somewhere without signal, I panicked as I knew he would be so angry if he texted me and I didn't reply, so much so that I tried to make my group of friends to elsewhere.

When I got signal I had umpteen messages starting with 'hope you're having fun' 'night night' then escalating to 'you bitch I hope the guy you're ignoring me for is worth it' 'hell never be like me' etc - this was abusive and I see that now, knowing now that I was worried about not replying to him showed his level of control.
Current dp - if I don't reply when out with friends he knows im just not looking at my phone, no meltdown or anger ensues.

OP, ask yourself:
Does he tell to everything he's doing and tells you when he's busy? Or is it just you who have to do it?
Will he respect if you tell him not to wear any clothes? Have you ever told him any of his choices were not appropriate?

What does he do if you decide to wear something that you want but he thinks it's too revealing?
What does he do if you aren't in touch?

What did he do in the past? Why did you decide to do what he tells you to? Did he keep insisting? Did he use emotional blackmail? (If you loved me you'd...)

What are the "quite a few more" other things like this?

As others have pointed out, it's the opposite. Each one on their own, no big deal.
It's all together that make it a bad relationship.
I strongly suspect you only feel it's good because you do as you're told.

He's never ever hit me. How can it be wrong

I think you are misunderstanding what a red flag is.

A red flag is a signifier. It tells you of traits that can lead to further abuse, but often are just about other types of control.

If he was actually hitting you - a red flag would not be needed.

Are you aware that people ramp up their often low level abuse once they have married their partner, or once their partner is pregnant or has a baby? This is the point of Red Flags - to enable you to see what is likely to happen and get out whilst you can.

There are emotional abusers who never lay a hand on their partners, and the abuse is still devastating. There are others who may progress to physical violence down the line. But it's still soul-destroying either way.

What would your partner do if you didn't reply to texts for three hours? I suggest you try it. Claim your battery died. His reaction will be very telling. If he expresses ANY sort of anger, or blames you in any way, or questions your story, no matter how subtly, then it's a true problem.

One adult controlling another adult (in the absence of very good reasons to do so, like one adult is learning disabled, or has serious mental health issues that make them unsafe to the,selves) is always wrong. Because you are not equals.
He believes he's more important than you. He believes he has the right to make decisions for you. And you are letting him.
If you're happy, knock yourself out, but this will never be a healthy relationship.

I agree with Massive. I would not answer my phone for a number of hours and very carefully dissect his reaction.

My DH wouldn't dream of checking where I was or what I was doing, the most I would get is "can you get milk on way home". It is weird, controlling, unnecessary to want to be checking where someone is and cloaking it in "concern and worry" when it is nothing of the kind.

As for controlling what I wear... well... words fail me. Ridiculous. He wants to own you body and soul. It's nothing to do with not being hit. You can hang onto that fact all you like but just remember mental abuse is bad too.

The mental abuse is worse and harder to recover from in many cases.

'hes never ever hit me'

Oh OP. That's a very low standard to have for what makes a relationship ok. It sounds to me like you are developing a gut feeling that all is not well in your relationship and you came on here looking for reassurance.

My advice is to listen to that gut feeling. You don't have to experience physical abuse for a relationship to be unhealthy. Your body is your own to 'reveal' or not as you choose. You 'belong' to no one but yourself. Relationships between 2 equal adults should not involve any ownership or possession.

Please listen to your gut feeling