When red flags aren't really red

[Hiphopopotamus]

Hi everyone. Been reading a lot on here about red flags and abusive relationships. I was wondering if anyone else was in the same position as me - where things taken out of context look bad, but are actually part of a good relationship. I just find it a bit worrying when sometimes these types of things come up, and everyone automatically assumes that the relationship is awful.

Contact - my DP expects me to stay in contact with him unless I've told him I'm going to be busy. He has no issue if I genuinely can't talk but he will worry if I don't respond within the hour if I haven't told him I'll be busy.

He tells me what I can and can't wear - or rather, he tells me what he'd prefer. He doesn't like me wearing anything revealing in public so out of respect for him, I don't.

There are quite a few more things like this, but hopefully you get the general gist. Our relationship is loving, kind and supportive, despite some things that could easily be picked up as being 'red flags'. Can anyone else identity with this.

Sometimes I think my DH and I are poles apart on things, all sorts of things, but we are very much easy come easy go. He does, says, wears things that irritate the life out of me, as I do him most likely but it's live and let live. He would no more suggest the way I should wear my hair than fly to the moon, it's my hair.

However, having known a controlling arse of a boyfriend before I met DH, I can pick up on things. For a short while I felt very very loved, very very secure, so special because he was so interested in me and forever wanting to know what I was doing, wearing, thinking blah blah. How lovely I thought, god he must care for me and be so interested in me and my life. Errrr, no. The specialness didn't last long as he ramped it up. I lost all sense of myself, I lost my fun, my laughter, I lost the essence of me. He wanted me body and soul, every tiny bit of me. It was smothering and needy and horrible. I'm glad I met him actually because it taught me what a relationship should not be like. It was a long time ago but I have never forgotten..

You're in an abusive relationship and you know you are.

I'm really sorry - this must be terribly hard to hear. Please listen to the little nagging voice inside you which prompted you to post this thread. That's your intuition talking to you. Its voice is very quiet at the moment because you've had to dampen it down over the course of this relationship. But it's still there. Give it some space.

If this man truly loves you, then he will wait for you. Put the brakes on and listen to that little quiet inner voice. Ask yourself why you posted this thread. Ask yourself what would happen if you disobeyed your partner. Ask yourself why you're being so defensive. Ask yourself why you're trying so hard not to listen to your inner voice.

Make yourself heard. And make sure you're absolutely sure before you start planning your wedding in earnest.

One final thing. No one is saying any of this because we're mean or cruel or hate men or have a vested interest in what happens to you. We're saying it because it's very obvious to those of us who aren't in the relationship that it isn't good for you. And is very likely to get a lot worse.

It depends what wishes.

The person that he met was you. If he is trying to change you and you go against those changes, then what happens?

If the answer is anything except 'nothing happens' then you are in an abusive relationship as he is trying to exert changes on you against your wishes by one of a number of tactics. That is why people are asking.

If you are so convinced then why not give us some examples of what happens if you wear make up for example. Or don't contact him for 3 hours longer than you said you would.

It is your life, but there is a reason you started this thread. Even if you can't face it yet.

So again OP; why keep coming back?

If you're 100% sure and happy why keep posting; why does the opinion of unknowns on the internet matter?

I mean this as gently as possible.

I haven't been in an abusive relationship, I've been in bad ones but I have seen 2 friends got through hell and back, and so many things you are saying; the justification is so very very familiar.

People aren't trying to be nasty; they're worried.

The false trope that all the posters in Relationships oh and the Feminist threads hate men is just that; false.

Many, of the posters have lovely husbands/partners/boyfriends and sons. Hell, some of them even are men!

In the main I despair at what women think they have to put up to be in a relationship; how much of themselves they think they have to give or give up to have a 'good' relationship without ever asking what am I getting out of this; why am I the only one giving?

The idea that it's only the woman's role/responsibility to maintain and 'save' the relationship actually belittles men, it's assumes that they have neither intelligence or self control, and need to be policed by women. It give women all of the blame and none of the respect or power.

It's like putting someone in a sinking dinghy and punishing them when they don't win the race against a well maintained speed boat.

The fact of it all is that we can't make you leave your relationship, (No matter what anyone says; to be horrible if you have little enough self esteem to instantly do as you're told by a stranger on the internet you're not likely to have the self esteem to leave).

Most posters have an inkling, a niggle that what they're experiencing isn't normal, most of these threads just confirm to the poster that actually it might not be them/their behaviour, that maybe just maybe this isn't normal or acceptable. That no, not everyone has to change the way they look, act, think to make their partner happy, that they, the person they are is enough.

I don't want to take away from the incredible support that people get on here, and it is, I know that I wouldn't have known where to turn when dealing with my friends; they helped me understand the massive mindfuck abusive relationships can be.

But it's not some massive mind control we can't make you do anything, we can only advise and support.

So OP, what is it you want from this thread?

OP I wholeheartedly agree with the posters who are saying we're not here to upset you, and I understand how upsetting it must be to hear your relationship is viewed as abusive - I ignored family members who were telling me to leave for years!

However, this thread has run for 12 pages, and from what I recall there is only 1 post from someone saying their situation improved.

Granted there's a slim chance it will, but it's not likely. From my own experience, and the experience of a lot of others on this thread, his controlling behaviour is more likely to get worse.

OP it might help to look into coercive control rather than abuse, because it is a much fuller description of what everyone is trying to describe than what we think of as "abuse." I won't repeat all the good advice here, but FlameGrilled makes a really good point. It starts with going along with things because it doesn't seem like a problem, it's no big deal, but eventually there will be something you don't agree with or want to do but it is too late - you know that the only choice is to go along or leave, and leaving feels too big. In my EA (and eventually low level physically abusive) relationship my ex-H made all the important decisions. We moved to another city (I didn't want to do it), my children are being raised in a religion I don't agree with, he chose their school (not what I wanted). On some subjects regarding the children my thoughts and opinions were dismissed out of hand. On others I was insulted and belittled. On really big ones we would discuss what I wanted but no matter what I said we always did what he wanted. I got to a point where I felt like my children didn't know the real me. We are divorced now and I am slowly learning to assert myself after always deferring, but it is not easy and causes me a huge amount of stress because of the consequences of not going along. You need to know what those consequences are before you get in any deeper. But do read up on coercive control - just to inform yourself.

Why would you do something that makes the person you live unhappy?

That's a good question OP.

It depends on what the 'something' is...

Hit them?
Bad mouth them?
Cheat on them?
Treat them like a doormat?
Ignore them?

.....

Or not wear makeup, 'revealing clothes' nor wear your hair in the style they don't like?

Can you not see the difference?

He is turning you into HIS IDEAL WOMAN. He is projecting his DREAM WOMAN into you.

That is not love, it's certainly not respect and in 10 years time you are going to be in a horribly abusive relationship that is incredibly difficult to escape because you don't even know who you are anymore, have no financial fallback and probably children to think about too.

I've been there - twice.

Do yourself a huge favour and test him before going further.

Get Lundy Bancroft's book and read it.

Talk to your local Women's Aid.

What have you got to lose?

If we're all wrong and WA nor Lundy don't resonate with you you are reassured.

If they do, you've dodged a massive bullet that could have been lodged in your vitals for the rest of your life.

Sounds dramatic, but it's not.

Your need to apologise to us, to try to placate us when we are simply pointing out the pitfalls you are possibly teetering on really makes me concerned for you.

You sound like a people pleaser.

From one people pleaser to another - no one's got your back but you - make sure you cover it.

OP - we get it, he is a lovely guy, genuine, funny, kind...it's just that he likes you to look a certain way, to wear certain things, or not wear others, to do your hair how he likes it.

And you are ok with that,really you are. You're ok with anything he wants, you don't care either way. You like to please him, because (and only because ) you love him.

Except - at some point, you will want something different. A different meal, a different night out, to see friends, to wear something you think is ok, but he doesnt. To need to wear make up to cover a spot, or wear contact lenses instead of glass. To want to work, when he thinks you should be at home. Etc. Etc.

Please read creativevoid above. It starts small.

Be kind to yourself OP. Run a little test. Come back and tell us we were all wrong, he was completely relaxed about you having your phone switched off a couple of times this week.

And honestly, if you really want to know, test him. Disagree with him, over a tiny thing.

Just a small thing. As suggested a million times on this thread. A tiny thing; can't hurt,can it? just being out of contact? Just for 3 hours? just to put your (and our) minds at rest.

Really, a tiny little disagreement. Can you do that, without worrying about the fallout?

The thing is before you have kids this kind of man feels sexy and loving, he wants to take care of you, has concern for you. But ... Wait till you are pregnant or have young children and he has total control and with the stress that brings. It will be a different story and not quite so romantic.

OP, I know how difficult it must be to read this thread. About 6 months ago I posted 'Why is the advice here so black and white" or similar with an opening post about what's wrong with MN relationship advice. You can't read it because I had it and some other threads deleted, my account closed, I lost my mind a little, wandered the streets in fear for a few days, ended up on ADs and with mental health help. I thought I had slipped into some weird state of paranoia brought on by posters telling me I was being abused.

Guess what, I have had a thread running for a month now helping me work out how to leave that relationship. I've been assured by medical professionals i am not paranoid, i am in a problem relationship.

I can't tell you how difficult it is to change things after nearly 20 years and 2 children.

I ignored the doubts and nagging fears for do long that quite honestly it shocks me when I think about what I've explained away. That's when I face up to it in between panic. Ignoring what you know to be true escalated in a dangerous way in my experience.

He's still really lovely most of the time. Means little.

Take time out from the thread if you need to. But be brave and come back and read. And try to be honest about whether any of it is relevant to you.
Maybe you will still feel the same. But come back after a breather and see.

I'm really starting to learn that when you think everyone is wrong it's time to question yourself.

when you think that everyone is wrong it's time to question yourself

There's a saying in Russia: "when three people tell you you are sick, go and see a doctor."

Oh and if you do have children, don't even think about taking maternity leave because these 'managing what you do out of concern' men are also the ones who call you a prostitute when you're on maternity leave because they're having to support you financially.

Ask me how I know. Go on...

I've just read what your DP expects from you to my DH, OP. He wasn't impressed, not one bit, 'no freedom in that relationship'. What about respect for yourself? Stay true to who you are, please don't let him take your identity.

Did you wear make up before you were in a relationship with your DP?

The "worrying about you" thing is total BS. You are a grown person who can navigate her way in the world just fine. He wants to know where you are so he knows who you are with and what you are doing.

I fear you have deluded yourself about the clothes. It's one thing having an opinion on what a partner is wearing. It's another to need to seek someone else's permission to wear something.

This may feel like love and caring op, but it is something else entirely. And yes, they are red flags.

My XP was never physically abusive. He was very abusive in other ways.

3 years after kicking him out I am still trying to recover myself physically mentally and emotionally.

Are you like this with him?

I'm not sure what I can add to this thread, there's so much genuinely good and insightful advice on here that I'm wondering if there's some way I can save it and show it to my daughter in years to come. Perhaps that's why you've had so many responses - we feel like we're watching an accident about to happen and we want to do anything we can to stop it happening, the same way we would if it was our own daughter.
I wonder how old you are OP..? You seem like you might be young. (But then everyone does to me these days ). The best advice you've had here is just to listen to what people are saying, try it on and see if it fits - maybe it won't, and so you won't have lost anything. But I hope you will be able to learn from the mistakes we've all made and not have to make them yourself.

Wherethe Hindsight is a great thing. Yes think OP might be quite young.

They do say hindsight is 20:20.

But yes, a truly loving partner, who has real respect for you, loves you for who you really are and not as their version of who they want you to be.

A truly loving partner might want to occasionally contact you just to hear your voice and might like to know in advance if something hasn't gone to plan which means you'll be held up or might get home in a bit of a down or grumpy mood, particularly when you have kids together or plans which might be affected by the day's events, but they certainly don't expect updates on the hour, every fucking hour. Many people give their 13 year olds more freedom than that.

Why do you think you shouldn't have started the thread? It's a perfectly good thread.
What you're describing in your relationship honestly sounds like the thin end of the wedge. They don't START by hitting you. A friend of mine had a boyfriend who didn't like her wearing revealing clothes. She was fine with that.
Then he punched her in the face. By then I hardly saw her anymore ( they isolate you from friends) and heard it from someone else but I assume she wasn't ok with that.

Of course the things you describe don't feel abusive. That's why they are called red flags.