You cannot communicate with batshit

[Pingpang]

Following on from a recent thread regarding those who are NC/LC with family members.

Welcome to the good ship Narcymcnarcface! The bar is stocked and there's a seat for everyone. Shuffleboard starts in 20 mins.

Wow daisy that is extreme batshitary!

Afternoon everyone 🙂 Thanks for the warm welcome, I'm currently avoiding the phone calls texts and e-mails asking me to contact her, will have to see her on Father's Day next week when I see my dad, will have to mentally prepare myself and these days I have to get dh to not leave me alone in a room with her because she waits til it's just the 2 of us to say something incredibly hurtful or twisted and toxic, I was starting to think I was going mad, I mean she is always horrible, but she saves the really bad stuff just for me when there's nobody else to hear. I told my dad about things that she'd said a couple of times and he said she then totally denied saying them, or claims she "must be going senile" because if she did say the she can't remember it. Sometimes I wonder if actually she really is losing the plot.

It's interesting reading others stories and the all out batshit crazy stuff some mothers do in public, mine would never risk other people outside the family seeing or hearing anything she does, it's all very calculated and covert, she has a public persona and the private one that only we see, it's so creepy.

Yes I totally understand the feeling of anger and shock at how they could treat their own child that way, once you've had a child yourself, it used to make me feel I must have been so awful to have as a child that she could treat me that way, I still have low self esteem but I now know those feelings of being worthless were not my fault, she was the adult and the parent and she didn't do her job properly, I don't blame myself for her treating me badly anymore, it's her not me.

I feel sad for all of us, it's so twisted how the person who cradled you in her arms and is supposed to love you most in the world can be the cruelest tormentor in your life, especially when you are surrounded by so many other normal happy healthy mother daughter relationships. It's hard not to blame ourselves at the beginning because that's what they have always trained us to do and it becomes ingrained, as a child you trust your parents and think what they do or say is right and that everyone else's parents are the same. I started to see the truth about her as a teenager, but it took another 15 years and having my own child to understand just how wrong and abnormal her treatment of me was / is.

Hope you all have a relaxing evening, looking forward to a film and a few glasses of wine once my little girl's in bed 🍷

Reading the horrific experiences that fellow shipmates have had is indeed part shock, part comfort.

And just as I think that my mother at least wasn't doing x or y, I stumble over another memory that in the cold light of day is pretty awful and wonder how I've filed it under 'acceptable weirdness by mother has done' and not 'incomprehensible awfulness'.

It's hard to start healing when your brain is still trying to excuse or minimise it in the hopes that by making it seem insignificant it will become really insignificant and therefore I won't be harmed in the way that such awful parenting leads to.

I'm imagining my brain as a room with bare floor boards, dusty and a bit neglected, but nothing a good brush won't fix. So I look round for a brush and then I see further over there in the whitewashed empty room, there's a ginormous frayed rug lying on top of a massive pile of dusty old rubbish and what knots, in a pile so high and large that all around the bottom bits and pieces are half uncovered.

I'm gonna need a bigger rug!

Or, as I'm trying to do, I'm tentatively poking bits out from that great messy pile and having a thorough look, before throwing away properly. It's irritating that one of the magical properties of this room is that the rubbish keeps on reappearing under that great carpet, as if i'd never thrown it away. It's kinda hard to get rid of this junk if it keeps on boomeranging back dammit! I keep on having to go back through and rediscover each piece of rubbish all over again.

Reminds me of Greek stories where unlucky sods get to do tasks again and again without end. Roll a boulder up a hill only for it to roll down and the poor man starts again. Or that really yucky one where a man lays on a rock face, tied down, and every day an eagle comes to peck out his liver for lunch, yet come nightfall the man heals and it starts all over again... a tasty human snack box that never goes off or runs out I guess, from the bird of preys point of view! (was he a minor God? Or a human /hero who's pissed off a god, anyway, it is that endless task, except without the liver I think!

Maybe one day I'll be able to get that room empty and clean and cared for, and ready for me to move into.

:)

I like your rug metaphor Misc, it's perfect.
Sisyphus for the Rock and promotheus for the liver eating eagle.

There's a Loki one that's pretty apt too, a serpent drips poison and his wife collects it in a bowl but it lands on him and that causes earthquakes while she's emptying the bowl. All kinds of enabler and flying monkey lines to be drawn.

Not up to saying much tonight. Ironically as had almighty row with dd. whenever that happens I fear becoming my mother/father but actually it's that fear that's lead to current situation. Dd been pushing her luck (typical teen) and I've been too soft. Now I'm having to deal with it and I'm scared of going too far. But also know I'm doing dd no favours if I don't put foot down. She's normally really good, but a new BFF having a worrying influence on her.

Bacon hold the boundaries. Feel safe inside. It's ok, she is ok and everything is ok. Hold the boundaries, she needs you to. If things are getting too much walk away. Do not over apologise, neither torture yourself afterwards with dark imaginings. She is and has been unconditionally loved, now she needs you to hold it. Don't be scared. feel for you so much.

she waits til it's just the 2 of us to say something incredibly hurtful or twisted and toxic, I was starting to think I was going mad,

Oh god yes - at one point I considered recording all our conversations! I almost wish I had so I could play them back. Not that it would do much good of course but still.

Bacon, hope you're both doing ok - stay strong. Obviously I've never faced this sort of thing myself but in my imagination, if you do go too far one time (and I doubt it but then I'll bet every parent in the world snaps sometime!) then the big difference is that I bet you would apologise afterwards like I would. We can admit where we're wrong and need to learn, and hopefully having that core underlying strong relationship makes the world of difference too.

Meanwhile every regular teen rebels and pushes and prods. The fact that I never dared was a neon warning sign in retrospect - so it's good that she can challenge you in one way

Saffy - I posted this on the previous thread but I think it might be worth another posting here - hope it helps you with seeing your mother.
London - I have a suggestion on one thing that might help your children to at least deal with the visitation with their GP.
I was taught it as a "mind trick" when dealing with emotional vampirism (something my mother practised) and I found it useful, your children might like it too, especially as it is a visualisation thing (depends on how literal they are!). I've offered it to a few clients in the past as well, and it's worked well for them too.

So - there are two variations, I'll write them both down, your DC can pick the one they prefer (if you decide to tell them).

1. Imagine that you are wearing a space suit. It can be whatever colour you want it to be, and shiny, sparkly, fluffy, whatever you like. But it's a space suit and the important thing is that NOTHING can get into it. You can still breathe ok, and you can still feel the world around you; but NOTHING gets through it, NOTHING penetrates that space suit. It is completely protective. And you put that suit on whenever you are facing something difficult, when you're scared, or when someone might hurt you - you put that suit on and it PROTECTS you completely from the scary thing/person. No one else can see it, except you - and the better you can truly see it in your mind's eye, then the stronger it is.
   Whenever you are wearing that suit, you are invincible. You are strong and safe, and you are fully protected from hurt or harm by others.

2. Imagine that you are in a glass greenhouse. Except that the glass is fully armour plated, and NOTHING can get through it. You can have what you want in the greenhouse with you, plants, books, chairs, whatever - it's your safe place. You can go into this greenhouse whenever you feel threatened, or unsafe, and lock the door securely. NO ONE else can get into your greenhouse. NOTHING can get to you through the glass, it is completely impenetrable. You can still breathe ok, and can still feel the world around you but you are SAFE from harm while you are locked in your greenhouse, with the things that make you feel happy.
   Again, the better you can actually see the greenhouse, see the details and the things that you have chosen to have in there, the better protection it will give you.
   You can stay inside the greenhouse for as long as you need to feel safe and you will be protected from hurt while you're in there.

It was really interesting and amazing to me to hear what some clients came up with in terms of their greenhouses or space suits - the level of detail! But the detail is important because it makes the suit/greenhouse more "real" to the person, they can truly see a picture of it in their heads, and it helps. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it might help to reduce the impact of this GP's time with them.
It's also quite important that they don't have anyone else in there with them - but sometimes they'll want to "take in" a smaller relative - if they do, then just say that they have their own greenhouse that is right next door to yours but they have to be separate to work properly.

Sounds woo, I know - but it honestly made a difference to me, and to those of my clients who had a go at using this technique. Hope it might be helpful for you and yours too.

Bacon - sorry you're having a rough time - teens can be very traumatic. I have a friend with 2 of them, well 1 now as the older one has turned 20, and they've been causing hell for her :(

Daisy - who could blame you for that? thing is, with batshittery, you never know just how far they will take things to prove a point, so you have to take it seriously, just in case!

Different scenario (and very outing) but I suffered "sexual" harassment (of a verbal nature) at one place I worked. The "sexual" part of it was only in the beginning, and because he was rejected (very kindly, I might add) the harassment was more like verbal abuse and bullying.
Anyway - the thing was, he claimed he had a death list, and I was number one on it. He knew where I lived (had posted stuff to my address), knew I was alone for most of the week, and had it all planned out how and with what implement he was going to kill me. Other people we worked with were also on the list; but I was number 1. SO of course I fucking took it seriously - as I said to all the others who thought I was "over-reacting" - they had the comfort of knowing that I'd have to be done first before they took it seriously, I didn't! Luckily the police agreed with me...
Of course the man was mentally unwell but that's AGAIN not the point.
The point is, you have to take the batshit seriously Just In Case.

, , and as necessary.

My greenhouse is lovely. Trouble is I can't imagine it impenetrable as it's made of glass... I also feel rather exposed if I imagine bad stuff just waiting there unchanged until I go out.

I'm feeling very squashed at the moment. Ffa.

Thanks for the support. The problem is partly of my own making as I always back down but she's gone too far this time. I want to back down (it'd certainly make my life easier) but it wouldn't do either of us any favours long term.

Things calmer just now but that's probably because there's nothing she wants that she's not allowed today, the weekend will be the test (she's grounded and on half pocket money).

Absolutely to the only saying stuff when you're alone, my sister is like that which then makes you feel like everyone thinks you're just nuts as they never witness it!! I had a work bully do EXACTLY the same, I left as in that case nobody did believe me (until her pal - the boss left and then it turned out I wasn't the only one and she was sacked).

Sorry my post was very gloomy earlier. It's been a really bloody awful few weeks and am clinging on for grim death, this thread is very helpful, though triggering as well!

Context is all, I'd try and describe why I'd be so upset or what my mother had done this time... And it all sounds soon, harmless, petty, when put into the context of 'aw, but she's your muuuuum'. It was only recently that I'm learning the vocabulary to express what she does in a way that doesn't make me sound crazy/ unforgiving/ bat shit myself. But it very much helps if the person I'm talking to has never met my mother!

Even when she was in the middle of behaving incredibly cruelly when my dad was very ill in hospital, the people that were helping her, and me, just couldn't understand the reality of what was happening... Because she was fully into the 'poor poor meeeeee' mode and if she's the sad little victim, how can she be an abusive ducking evil bitch at the same time?!

Her actions then broke me and broke the last threads of a bond. And she has no idea, because she was just doing what she always does. So why would it be different then? The fact that she was so so cruel and lied and made it impossible for me to get to my dad then just didn't register with her. The fact that he died when she was playing her crazed selfish fucked up games didn't seem to matter to her. Because it was all about her, My feelings were, inconvenient? Irrelevant? Something to play with to get a kick out of in a situation where she was upset, of course she needed that kick more than ever I guess. She used me as her emotional toilet, and as a source of thrill.

And sadly, I'm not sure my dad got much of a look in compared to her starring role in HER drama. She blocked me from sharing medical information that may have helped.

So weird that the people who saw exactly what happened, what she did, were still harping on about 'aw but she's your muuuuum' and 'she was just upset' etc etc etc.

I don't get how it didn't break through when they were witnesses to her crazy... Like when she's been to the hospital, with these other people I'm talking about, they took her to see my dad. And they saw my dad with the Physio, walking. And then one of them called me later that day and told me... And heard my shock and confusion.., my dearest darling mother had got home from the hospital and phoned me to say that he'd never walk again. The only bit these people didn't hear was her call to me, yet somehow it became a 'oh well she's so upset' and 'you must have misunderstood somehow'.

I guess that's easier than thinking... What? We all saw him walking this morning. No confusion. No misunderstandings... So, what kind of person then lies to her child and tells her that her father will never walk again?! A sick fucking fucked unselfish cruel person. That's who.

Though interestingly, those same people were very good at conserving their own boundaries and pushed her off as soon as they could. And now she bitches about them, just like everyone else who doesn't let her leach off them. I guess her encroaching craziness is good enough for me, but not for them...

misc - she's appalling! Truly appalling.

Re. the greenhouse - the important thing is that the glass isn't just glass - it's triple-thick, bulletproof, non-shatterable flexiglass. It allows you to breathe but STOPS EVERYTHING from getting through. It also weighs nothing so it's easy for it to come around with you, and because it's flexiglass, it can fit to you like a skin if necessary (while still not disrupting the contents - a bit like the Knight Bus in Harry Potter, if you've seen that?)
So it's also like your armour - triple thick, bulletproof, impenetrable, non-shattering flexiglass armour. And what that gives you is protection against the intangible aspects of the situations you have to face - the emotional vampirism, the nasty little barbs of unpleasantness (pffft - they just glance off it!), the arrows of hatred (yep, they just bounce as well) - you still have to face the situation, granted, but you'll have the strength to do it because you're protected from having the strength sapped out of you by the leeches.

Does that help a bit more?

Misc horrible horrible behaviour.

Misc

Of course you don't have to answer but I wonder if you've considered/sought help re going nc completely with her?

I know it's not easy, I know it's something we've ALL struggled/are struggling with. I just don't want you to be hurt any more by her.

I've been very very low contact for ages. Only flairing up at enforced Christmases. But as my sister and father have died, it's become more difficult. And after a great many years two people have noticed her bat-shitness, and have reached out a bit to me. Except I'm finding it incredibly difficult as they are in her world, the one I cut myself off from a long long time ago. I can't make sense of what she does, and I cannot lie for her which is a basic skill to live in her reality. I never found a way of making my life in the place she is. So I left. And it's all bringing it back up, and the balancing of what do I share and what would put them in too difficult a position. Bleugh.

And it's the health stuff that pulls me back into the crazy. And finding out stuff I can't deal with (by accident, I have no inclination to dig, fuck knows what else is down there.

I run away. I detach. I mourn. I don't know how to live with it. I don't think I ever will.

I'm one of those sea creatures that protects itself by a burst of speed and spraying ink everywhere - I'm thinking squid, but not one of those that has a killer beak and is a massive terror of the feel?

It's called the GTFOOT defense, or at least, it should be :) Get The Fuck Out Of There ... Nowt but a trail of ink remains ......,.

Hard when you can't slither out though.

It is hard absolutely but it's soooo worth it!

There is a thread in AIBU that is reminding me of some of my Mothers batshit behaviour - one of the small things that if seen in isolation most people would just say to ignore. The threat is from a mother who asked her teenage daughter for a list for her birthday and then only got her one thing off it because she had decided the other stuff was a waste of money. This is exactly one thing my mother did. Every year my sisters and I would be asked for a list which she would insist be a certain length and then we would be lucky if we got one thing off it because she had decided that we would rather have some thing she had read about in a magazine or her friends had told her about or that she felt it was a waste of money. It made me feel awful because then I had to pretend to be grateful for whatever rubbish thing she did buy or she would get really upset and then cry and tantrum through the day.
However when I was old enough to buy her presents I would be told exactly what expensive item she wanted and woe betide me if I did not buy it, but if I did then I got told off for not using my imagination.
Did anyone else's Narc parent do this

I've said before, I got stuff my sister wanted and vice versa.

I've seen that thread too, weird, why ask for a list/ideas if you're going to almost completely ignore it?!

Yes, present giving seems to give a particular thrill of power to these sorts of people. Mine has regularly asked for lists then ignored them. Why ask?!

I'm feeling like shit today - you know that anxious feeling when you feel people are unhappy with you? That. One woman at work has been really rude about me and my manager's shrugged it off as a "she's crazy!" thing, but I feel paranoid for some reason, like everyone around me is giving me Looks.

Can't think why they would, it must be me projecting but it's horrible; I feel like apologising but I'm not sure why or who to. I'm being batshit today clearly. I can't effectively keep asking for reassurance that I'm actually doing my job well, there's only so many times anyone can say yes.

when I was old enough to buy her presents I would be told exactly what expensive item she wanted and woe betide me if I did not buy it, but if I did then I got told off for not using my imagination
Oh yes ! This 1000 times this!
and lets make sure we include a critique of whatever she had been bought - listing all the things wrong with it - it was never ever enough.
As an adult this morphed into her posting gifts back to me often several months later so they were un-returnable (with a note explaining she had decided against it because.....)
The amount of time and money I pissed away on this horrible game when I had so little of either.

Yes! My brother gets asked what he wants and gets exactly what's on his list from expensive computer consoles to little stocking fillers.

I get a random assortment of crap that i have to pretend I like, my grandmother likes to buy clothes for me she would wear?! And always in the wrong size! I hate it because they spend money on rubbish it's such a waste! I'd rather get nothing.

I also hate how my brother gets her nothing usually just adds his name to what I'm getting and I get her really lovely things like I once bought her a designer handbag as I'd done a lot of overtime and had some spare money but it's still me who is the selfish and ungrateful child

merd I feel for you, feeling similar myself today my boss was narky at me as well I know it's because he's busy but still triggers my anxiety.

I'm sure your colleague is just having a bad day for you, almost Friday!

665 mine wouldn't give them back but would very quickly regift them to someone else always saying its because she wouldn't use whatever the thing was. The thing she had specifically asked for

What is it with the presents. My mum had a little stool in the living room and what ever I bought her would stay on the stool for months and months, unopened. Then it would move to the book case, just so that you knew how useless you were.

Another one would be, "stepfather went up in the loft, there is so much junk up there, I've no idea where it came from"'. Then she would list every present I had bought her.

Only on here, would I be believed.