Is this a 'pick me dance'?

[HoursOfFun]

Last summer DP & me split up - many, many reasons for the split though I found it very painful.

One of the reasons was that I had instincts that he was flirting with someone else in a way that made me feel bad (she plainly fancied him too).

We had NC for a couple of months. Then over Christmas he began doing a huge charm offensive - long love letters, begging me to give him another chance etc.

Against my better instincts I got sucked back. It's been quite amazing - overwhelming and exciting with incredible sex.

Until Friday - when he said something that hurt me and set alarm bells ringing all over again. He was asking when I would be free this week. He said 'I can't meet Thurs - your nemesis wants to meet for a drink' I didn't know who he meant but turned out he meant the girl I suspected he had feeling for last summer.

I said incredulously 'you're going on a date with her?'
He laughed and said 'no, not a date..... I can't help it if women throw themselves at me'
Then he said mockingly 'would you rather I didn't'

I just felt so frozen - it felt like he was being quite cruel, I didn't know how to react.
I said 'yes I'd rather you didn't but I'm not your keeper'.
Then I walked off the train and have not contacted him since. He has sent a couple of chatty texts about nothing in particular which I have ignored.

Am I over reacting? My instincts are just telling me to walk away. Why should he get to try and taunt me like this when he knows it hurts?

Yay! He cracked first! he was probably sitting there thinking that you wouldn't be able to hold out much longer, you must be struggling not to text him, that you would finish your sulk and come running back.

And you haven't.

Now, I'm no fan of ghosting (had it done to me), but him, I would ghost. Or reply:

Dear 007, I'm sure you could take one of those women who keep throwing themselves at you.

Thanks for all the fantastic messages. For those of you who describe putting up with Narcs, I really feel for you and I am beginning to think that sadly that is what he must be - so many of his patterns of behaviour fit the definitions and descriptions of that disorder.

I'm no fan of ghosting as a 'thing' but at the moment it feels like the only natural response to his text this morning. Anything else feels like an unhealthy compromise. Even a sarcastic reply feels like it will feed his ego. But part of me still feels sorry for him - like I'm imagining him checking his phone sadly and wondering about the silence. But fuck him, he can comfort himself with the thought of his drink with the poor sacrificial lamb he'd lined up for Thurs night. (Also can't help wondering why he suggested Thurs for film with me - as if to remind me of that conversation? Or to let me know I've temporarily 'won' the crazy competition he was engineering?)

This morning my Counsellor suggested answering any communication in a short but bright and breezy way, without emotional engagement or questions. She said then I wouldn't be feeding his sense of power that I was so hurt as to be silent but still maintaining control of the situation. I can see her reasoning but I feel absolutely no urge to reply to him at the moment.

How dare he tell me he's going for a drink with a woman he's flirted with under my nose?! How dare he fuck with my head?! How dare he make me feel I need to scurry around for his attention?! Fuck. Him.

Ha, so his 'I'm dating other women and you better jump higher than them to keep me!!' tactic didn't work, so he's quickly back-pedalling.

Don't think for a second he is sadly checking his phone or feel sorry for him. You haven't done anything wrong here, he has, neither is he deserving of your sympathy.

He has shown bugger all regard for your feelings. Don't go into rescuer mode where his feelings are suddenly more important than yours - that is classic co-dependence. Please do some reading on co-dependence and low self esteem and being a 'rescuer'.

The only person you need to be protecting, rescuing and worrying about right now is YOURSELF.

You are under no obligation to respond to him, explain yourself, or do anything else that feeds his mind games. He is toxic. Normal people don't tear others down then gaslight and act as if nothing happened.

Ignore him - for the sake of your sanity.

Don't feel sad or guilty or spare another thought to how he's feeling.

More than likely he is unable to feel empathy so it's all about the game.

Ghosting is ok but he could possibly still see it as a challenging game. I agree with the counsellor actually. "No thanks! Enjoy!" And then block him.

My ex hates it when I'm polite and cheery, but closed. He can't read it at all...hates it!

You are right, any sarcasm, hurt, response of feeling fuels his knowledge that he's had an effect on you and you feel something for him. Even hate is a feeling they grab hold of...if you hate him, you must feel something for him, or be jealous etc etc

Agree that either total silence or a polite but cool 'No thanks' are the options. Don't want to sound OTT but have you read Jon Ronson's The Psychopath Test? It's actually really interesting and puts forward the idea that there isn't necessarily a black and white distinction and people can have some of the traits - many of these (flamboyant lying, many turbulent relationships etc) seem to show up in your ex's history! Might be comforting confirmation that this is absolutely not you.

Thanks again for the amazing replies.

Music - I have just read a little bit on co- dependence and some of it really resonates. I come from a dysfunctional family where I think co dependency has featured a lot due to the needs of a sister with BPD and a Dad with a serious disabling disease..... Anyway just a bit of cursory reading makes it clear to me that I am probably ripe for codependency without ever realising it. I will read more.

Wally - yes I don't want my silence to be percieved as a 'challenge' to him. uurrgghh - even the fact that he has me thinking like this feels totally wrong. Who spends a whole day wondering whether or not to answer a text? Life is too short!!

I feel a little bit tortured now by memories of him flirting with OW at the party last year and imagining them out together, imagining him using all the same charm on her as he did on me. And little memories are surfacing. Like one time last year, towards when we split up when he spoke to me one day on phone and said 'work is quiet, x (OW) is away in Amsterdam' and I remember thinking 'why does he care that she's away and why is he telling me?'

He is so cruel. When he gave me a million signs of how cruel he is I should have paid attention instead of minimising, rationalising and explaining. But at times he seemed like the kindest person ever. I feel very confused. I want to be able to see things objectively, without sentiment or emotion. Guess that will take a while.

Thanks Tendon - I will read.
My Counsellor said she thinks he might actually have psychopathic tendencies - though she emphasised that it's more common than people think to have certain tendencies.

If he is indeed a narcissist, HoursOfFun the only way out is to disengage completely. In my case I need to communicate as we share two children but all mails are purely factual with no potential for emotional response or perspective.

A fully-blown narcissist will destroy you come what may until he finds another victim. Please don't feel he is capable of remorse or empathy. He will feel pity, for himself only, and a disproportionate sense of entitlement, again for himself.

Indifference is the solution. I do realise that it must be so very painful for you to have to accept this as this realisation is still dawning on you.

Definitely ignore him.
You are a challenge now.
Don't cave.
AND, you're far too nice for him.

OP - that's pretty much what Ronson says. It's not all about dramatic serial killer type figures, it's about tendencies showing up in people and what they do to manage them. Some people (he says) go into the military or climb the corporate ladder and find outlets for their violent tendencies / need to have power over others that way. You can buy the book second hand on amazon for a penny plus delivery (I've bought it for several friends and am not Jon Ronson, honest) - it's very entertaining. You have definitely dodged a bullet in ditching this guy though.

Like when he flirted with her in front of me - it was sort of - 'yes I'm flirting so you can't accuse me of doing anything behind your back' kind of thing. Very strange.

My ex was like this too (one of many reasons he's now my ex! He'd make sleazy comments about other women ALL the time. He'd often come home from the gym telling me how horny he was because some hottie with big boobs and tight yoga pants had been working out in front of him and it had got him all worked up. Whenever I objected to comments like that I would get told that I should be grateful for having such an 'honest' partner, because all men think that way but don't have the guts to say it, and that I should feel sorry for all my friends with their lovely, kind partners who were obviously just putting on an act. I can't believe it took me so long to see how fucked up it all was!

I'm not sure I'd be able to just ghost him in this situation, but it sounds like you are doing fantastically well and that it's the right thing for you. If he isn't even checking you're ok after not hearing from you since you walked off the other day, then it doesn't really sound like he cares all that much. What a wanker.

Please please please don't go back
So much of this sounds like the early days with my H.
If I hadn't gone back it would have saved soooo much heartache.

Google pyschopathic traits

here

Someone on here told me that once.
And it was so obvious

Thanks all. This is really helping me. In the early days and not really being on MN I would definitely have texted him a 'I'm feeling down - please reassure me' text by now, which no doubt would make him feel all big and powerful and even more full of contempt for me underneath.

Frieda - that is gross and sounds similar.
My one's charming habit has been to basically tell me all the time that I must have suppressed lesbian tendencies and then use that as an excuse to tell me a) who he finds hot and b) that must mean that I surely find them hot too. Now as I said earlier, I have absolutely no problem with anyone being a lesbian, being bi etc etc etc but I haven't ever been and coming from him it first felt a bit edgy but ultimately felt coercive, controlling and like a pushing of my boundaries - he did it really subtlely at first. Then it became more and more part of 'our' sex life. So sometimes he'd be whispering whilst we were intimate and he'd start saying 'I know you want xx' and it would be a friend of mine or another woman we both know. And really it felt like it was because he wanted them. It really began to freak me out because it just seemed all about him having a wank fest, basically. But it was really difficult to call him out on it in the heat of the moment and also if I brought it up later he'd either sulk or say 'you didn't complain at the time' or say 'you're in a safe place with me, you should let yourself go more' and make me feel like I was some sort of Victorian prude. I would never, ever do the equivalent and bring other men into 'our' private life. I didn't want to - I just wanted it to be about us and also I think deep down I know he wouldn't be able to take it - and I didn't want to 'hurt' him, even though he was fucking with my boundaries all the time!! How messed up is that?!

Sorry for all the venting but it is unbelievably cathartic to get it all out, finally. I haven't even told my Counsellor this stuff - I felt too ashamed.

What a total and utter creep this loser is.

I feel sad for you and more so when you say you'd look to an abuser like him to cheer you up when down, even when he's the reason you feel down. Please, never, ever do that again. This is why outside, independent support is vital. When we have dysfunctional families and no emotional support, we end up as lambs to the slaughter with abusive men, because we are wide open and have no one to confide in or to look out for us.

Stay strong and keep posting and as the days tick by, it will get easier and you'll see how much better you can do.

What you do next is potentially the difference between the rest of your life being utterly miserable or having the life that you truly deserve, with a decent, caring, well-adjusted, loving partner. Hugs to you.

His movie text is because he's frantically trying to reel you back in, he knows you've reached your limits.

Stay strong, you're very wise.

It's basically just a test. "Will this drip say yes to going out with me the night I told her I'm seeing another woman?"

If you said yes, he'd probably watch the film with you then leave you standing while he goes off to see her. Or try to take you along too, then shag you while talking about how you "really" fancy her.

Jeez Louise, you're really not missing out here. He sounds disgusting. Trying to get you to pretend to have sexual inclinations you don't really have is SO grim. Where the fuck does that end?!

Sorry meant to say - that's why he's suggested a film at 5pm not a more normal evening time. He's not cancelled seeing her.

Ooh, well spotted Asking. Yes, bet if you went to the 5pm film with him, by about 8.30 he would be telling you that he's meeting this woman at 9pm and looking for a jealous reaction. What a loser (him, obviously).

Yes Tendon & Asking - those thoughts had occurred to me. 😢. I'm sure both day and time are completely calculated to rub my nose in it or push boundaries once again. The fact that he hasn't asked how I am, what I've been up to or shown any interest in the fact that I walked off the train plainly upset the other day, speaks volumes. The invite is all about his 'plan' - to set up some bullshit competition between me & OW.
Well I'm not playing his game. It hurts. I feel let down. But I value my self respect and freedom too much to waste time with his rubbish.

Hi everyone - just posting to avoid texting dickwad.

Weirdly I found an old diary I'd kept from last year and before which is mainly about him and his many petty cruel acts.

It is strange reading it because I had forgotten a lot of incidents and also I remember frantically writing everything down because of feeling so confused and trying to make sense of the hurt.
There is a real pattern of him building me up and then cutting me down.
Like on two consecutive days last year where one day he'd said 'we have a life time bond and no one is capable of loving you as much as I do'
And then the next day I've written how stunned and hurt I was that he'd told me out of the blue, after amazing sex that 'you have to set me free, I need to meet other people'
It's beginning to sink in that it is really him with the issues, not me. But at the time I really blamed myself and then of cause as soon as he offered a crumb I'd fall into grateful acceptance - it reads like someone with Stolholm syndrome. I think the sex has also been like trauma bonding or hysterical bonding - probably heightened by a sense of total instability and dependence on his mood or whim as to whether I am allowed to 'trust' the relationship or not.
Anyways - posting all that helps me to refrain from texting the idiot. I wish I could stop thinking about him though.

Incidently I only want to text him to say 'you and I are totally over'. But I won't. I still thing that will give him an ego boost.
Ghosting ghosting ghosting.....

Oh gosh, he sounds awful. Self-absorbed, delusional, and a real head-fuck.

Well done writing here as a distraction from texting him.

Well done HoursOfFun! It's rather like drug withdrawal, don't you think? Keep ghosting. You'll be so much happier longterm, I promise!