Spring has sprung and the sap is rising! It's Dating Thread 104

[IToldYouIWasFreaky]

The Rules:

1. The first rule about the dating thread is you don't talk about it with people you're dating.
2. Develop a thick skin.
3. Do not invest emotionally too soon.
4. It's all BS until it actually happens.
5. Trust your gut instinct.
6. People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault.
7. You are the prize-they should be trying to impress you.
8. If it's not fun, stop.
9. Loo update is mandatory.

10. No dating the thread. 11. Read Why Men Love Bitches (aka WMLB), and take from it what you will. 12. Don't serve up moose burgers on the first date (although this is still in debate right now) 13. Matthew Hussey also very useful. And very easy on the eye even if you don't find him any good. 14. IF THEY SAY THEY DON'T WANT A RELATIONSHIP, THEY DON'T WANT A RELATIONSHIP

Argh Freaky I have just read your update, I am sorry Bacon was vile and tried to shift the blame to you. What a lame Dbag move. But it is also quite telling regarding his ability to communicate (or lack of) in a relationship. He is not the guy you want.

And hell yeah, I second you losing your shit with him. Honestly I am not sure what else you could have done when faced with him all-so-indignant at you expecting to the decent human being he sold you.

So yeah, you get a proper from me! And a license to vent away for as long as you need to. I could easily be dragged in a renaming name calling contest!

Yes the word 'drama' is quite a big red flag I think, completely agree with 314's analysis of that.

Shaven balls....

How you doing this morning, Freaky?

How are you this morning freaky?

Hopefully feeling better. 😊

Morning everyone! Hope you are okay Freaky
I have just quoted yoda at marvel iron his last messge yesterday said he might be cheeky and try for a kiss so i replied with "do or do not there is no try"

That's really funny muddling

OMG I just read properly about datingbarb's MrPaws - Boak. I think I would have struggled to not run from the building.

freaky you did so awesome! Go you!
People like bacon are not used to being called out on their shit. Most people on the receiving end (myself included) send a text saying 'your behaviour is not good enough, bye'. Pretty much letting them off the hook. His defensive mechanism speaks volumes. His lack of apology is reprehensible. I do wish more people would understand that if someone is hurt a heartfelt sorry goes a long way.
It will hurt for a little while, but you dodged a bullet. Big time.
I think more people (myself included) should do what you did. He will think twice before he messes someone around again. If that happens to me again, I will do the same.

You are amazing. We are all here for handholding. You'll bounce back in weeks. Oh and taking a break from OLD is good for the soul. I highly recommend it!

Oh fuck me freaky Gentle shaved his balls too.
Were this part of twats twins or something?
Jeeeezzzz!!

*pair

314 rumpleforeskin made me laugh out loud on the train!

fox go slowly, take your time.

Welcome dating you'll come up to speed soon enough. The thread moves so quickly it's impossible to keep up.

My new iron shall be named mrcalm. He's very laid back and already asked me to say we can do dinner and drinks next week. Good man.

realthing non iron is back. I saw him yesterday looking pre non date gorgeous. Have concluded he's another manchild. Wants to take a lollipop off the shelf in the candy store and leave but is equally staring longingly at the stay as long as you want pick and mix section. Unless he steps up and actually asks me out 121 for a proper adult interaction he gets no time. Although thread, this man is utterly DREAMY.

tooSassy i know, clever for a 21 year old right? But not so clever I'd quote 'give him a go'.

off to work now. coffee at work. then more coffee. then back on the thread

oh no I do actually have stuff to do today

Yupp sassy, genuine focused interest or nothing.
I wish I'd listened to Amy Young's clips before i started this game 9 months ago! I feel jaded sometimes, briefly! but then I also think, i knew nothing back then, now I know who to walk away from, so I can't give up just when I've finally learnt the lessons that might help.

lots of thoughts on personal accountability, irons lack of it, the fact that sorry does go a long way......... later.

Did I read shaved balls?? Oh I hate shaved balls! It's really really creepy 😂😂😂

I'll have to check out this Amy Young person.

Morning all!
I'm not doing too badly this morning. The things that were making me feel bad last week were a) not knowing what was going on and b) missing him. And now I do know what's going on and he's just not the person I thought he was so how can I miss him? If that makes sense...

I am still feeling angry but also reflective. I am still pondering on the old "what are red flags and what are the insecure voices in my head resulting from past experience?" I'm sure that some things I was worrying about were just paranoia but there were also red flags and I will list them in the hope they might help someone else

1. Lack of friends. In all the time I knew him, he never mentioned doing ANYTHING with friends. He spoke about old friends from home and I knew he was lonely but he just had zero social life and no efforts to make one. From now on, I will not right swipe anyone who's profile is 100% selfies.

2. The charm thing. Trickier one this as people do try to be charming when OLD and a bit of flirty banter is lovely and an important part of the process, IMHO. But I guess the red flag should have been that it didn't really chime with the lack of friends thing, so it wasn't his real personality, if that makes sense?

3. The way he reacted to that comment I made pre 2nd date. Back story...I made some flippant comment that he'd need to entertain me on our date and he came back with "you know what? Enterain yourself" This was just as he was supposed to be leaving his house. Then he didn't actually say he was still coming, even though I asked him. I let him off as we talked about it on the date and he apologised but it did show a lack of regard for my feelings.

4. Change of communication style - I knew something was up last week. He was trying to use the "busy at work" excuse but FFS, why not just say "Sorry, I've got a big project at work next week which I really need to focus on, so my phone will be off at work and I might be too knackered in the evening for much chat. But I'm really looking forward to relaxing with you at the weekend" That's what a reasonable person who was actually into me would have done but no, he was pulling away and covering up.

There we go. Lessons definitely learnt. And I am more certain than ever of what I am looking for which is no less than genuine focused interest and a proper adult relationship with commitment, honesty and communication. And preferably unshaven pubes...cos the plucked chicken look is not pleasant Why would guys do that? I was going to ask him this weekend but I guess now we will never know...

MrEloquent was utterly lovely last night...sample text "Life's too short to feel like a mug for trusting people. You're a good person, a lovely person, and you win. He loses by having to be him" But never fear, I have my head firmly screwed on re him. I needed a little ego boost and kindness last night but I'm well aware that he doesn't actually know me, that he is also very charming when he wants to be and that he's not looking for/capable of a relationship. So I won't contact him again and will tell him (nicely!) to leave me alone if he contacts me.

Chat is getting increasingly full on flirty with CurlyMuso, can't believe I nearly let my stupid apprehensions get in the way of what is turning into a lot of fun!

tanya good for you! I'm glad it's going well. Any date plans?

All quiet on the western front here.

freaky learn from it but don't let it cloud your judgment too much!! Glad that Mr eloquent was being nice 😊 as you said, you need it at the moment 😊

Love how sensible and rational you're being over such hideous treatment, Freaky, it can't be entirely easy, but I'm glad you aren't letting him make you internalise it. You're a gorgeous, elegant, eloquent woman and deserve much more.

The lack of friends thing definitely is a big red flag. I'm not massively sociable, but I have a tight circle of awesome friends who are more like my family than my family is. CurlyMuso has tons of friends and seems very well loved, because he (appears to be) is a warm and open person who genuinely cares about those around him. If someone won't put themselves out for others, they'll be a shit partner and it would be a super lonely relationship where you'd just be their sole emotional crutch.

muddling I'm glad things are back on track with Marvel and well done on the Yoda line...perfect! When's the 2nd date?

Foxtrot You are sounding very sensible about Fence. I hope he does step up.

314 DavetheRave sounds promising. Fingers crossed...And I love your new user name. Fabulous! So many lessons to learn but when the right guy comes along, we're going to ace it!

Sassy realthing definitely sounds like a manchild. Albeit a dreamy one...

Tanya Lovely to hear about you and curlymuso. It took real courage to go back to him and say you wanted more. I hope it works out.

Traffic No news from the electrician then? Ah well, nothing ventured and all that. Another brave lady!

Traffic, we've got a lunch/film/drinks date on 15th. I made a comment that the film I really want to see isn't until the 20th and that I was too impatient to wait that long until our second date (we had our first a few weeks ago) and he came back with "that'll have to be our third then." He's very warm and attentive, checks in with me just the right amount, very flirty but never sleazy. It's lovely.

You know Freaky I think you played the Bacon thing perfectly. You called him on it at exactly the right time. There was nothing you could have done differently in these circs. If I may say.... While you have got your fingers burnt, you've simply not 'made any mistakes' so don't really need to 'learn anything' from it.. Those pink flags about friend and the pre-date comment - those were already logged. Don't not swipe right on those profiles with just selfies, that might simply be a step too far. Reflect but don't change. Just know that you're a bit hurt and love yourself a lot bit. When you're all recovered you'll be able to KOKO.

The only thing really is that consistency is key. Twix might be a ponderous, slightly enigmatic plodder but he is 100% consistent in his communication. It's allowed me to get to know him a smidge -he hates using the phone. So I've adjusted my expectations there. But there is consistency. And progression. And affection, he is definitely not an IDWAR. Where there's consistency, trust can grow. Am pining a bit for Twix. That's the downside of my feelings growing. But am spending the day in the garden getting stuff done (day off Yey!)

I know Freaky, you are the woman who didn't collude with his self-delusion. You didn't cry or call him names. You just called him out on misleading you.

Dave the Rave sent me a message saying he doesn't do casual relationships. Well, I can see the notification in my gmail "hi, I don't do casual rela..........''
I haven't read the rest. For all I know it could say and I don't go out with women unless they rock a bikini. So I won't get too invested :-p I'll reply later.

But even if we get as far as meeting up, I would still be wary. Even men who announce they don't do casual can still hide behind the ''well I thought I felt deeply for you but now I don't..." That was H. He was serious to start with and then it just evaporated. So. Caution. Always. Even if they claim not to be players.
I won't get in to messaging irons at work. There's a limit.

Maybemarried45 is either a player or married. We'd been bantering and he said something about ''don't you love the younger men'' and I said ''no, their mistakes are all ahead of them and mine are all behind me. Right?!'' and I knew that if he was a player or married he'd read in to that that I have my eyes open to all of the tricks. And sure enough, no reply! I will eat my chateau, no my trousseau if he comes back to me!

The 29 yo was whatsapping me last night. I ignored. I feel horribly cold doing that, but to do anything else would be a mixed message (perhaps).

I've already told him that I do want a relationship but I don't want a relationship with him . You can't be much clearly really. Also said that I don't want casual relationships/sex and I certainly don't want one with him (''it'd be fun'' (him). "not for me!!" ) he is still not absorbing the message. I'm not sending mixed messages. I wouldn't want to. I feel personal accountability though. I think I feel more personal accountability for having gone out with the guy ONCE than Bacon did/does for going out with Freaky for several weeks. Weird huh?

The different levels of personal accountability that people feel or don't feel towards the people they date. Personally I think one date is a drive by and you don't owe anybody anything if you haven't told them you want to see them again. (i didnt)

Thoughts on accountability

Do any of you ever hear that somebody's been in therapy and assume (erroneously I now think) that that's a sign they're sensitive, aware, decent.....

And maybe they are! but the focus of therapy is all about how you feel, how you react. There isn't much of a focus on the repercussions of your words and actions on other people is there? A therapist encourages you to look after yourself. So it could be very easy to end up in therapy and rationalise behaviours that hurt other people. And the onus would be on them not to react! Not to confront.

Obviously I'm thinking about B here, and I shouldn't, but even if he did tell his therapist about friends just cutting him off stone dead, I guess the conversation would be along the lines of how did that make you feel. Therapists don't reprimand you or offer up the other perspective. They don't point out to you how your behaviour might make somebody else feel. I don't think mine ever said to me, and how did that make your mother feel? how did that make your x feel because the script of therapy was that I had the absolute right to walk off/ leave/ drop the rope/disengage.......

So for me it was useful because I was a people pleaser who put herself last, but I think some people can come out of therapy with a really heightened awareness of their own perspective. Rationalising their various delusions and protecting themselves.

I'm not anti-therapy at all though. I really rated mine. Best thing I ever did, I should have done it years earlier. But, because it was so good for me, and I came out of it a better, strong person, I thought that a man who'd done therapy was a good sign. I'm re-thinking that.

I'm don't think I have made any mistakes as such. These are just things I should look out for more in the future. For example, with the second date thing, I could have pushed it a bit more. He explained about his ex and I basically let him off without saying how it had made me feel. If I had said (gently) "I was hurt by your message and that you didn't respond to let me know you were coming" then he could well have reacted as he did last night...all defensive and well, mean. And that would have given me my answer. But I was afraid of appearing needy/too interested. So I guess my lesson for the future is if someone does something that upsets me, I should say it, in a non-confrontational, kind way and see how they react to that. It would speak volumes, I think.

When I was talking to my brother at the weekend, he says he can do/say things that upset women he's dating and have NO CLUE what he's supposed to have done. He's a good, kind guy but can be a bit thoughtless. But if someone he was dating said "when you did xyz, it hurt because of abc" he'd fall over himself to apologise. Because he's a decent human being.

My self-esteem is intact anyway. I do think I handled it well and I know I'm a bloody good catch! My concern is that there are no decent men out there, not that there's anything wrong with me.

I think you're right 314, it is about personal accountability. And Bacon clearly felt none towards me. I don't think you owe the 29 year old anything though...you always told him the score and have been clear with him since the date and frankly, he's getting annoying now. I'd be blocking him....

I am intrigued to know the rest of DavetheRave's message. It's a good start!

Handy - KOKO? And pining for Twix is good. I'm sure he's pining too! When are you next seeing him?