Am I just the 'OW' and don't realise it?

[kathymyskies]

I'm a first time poster and could do with some advice. From reading MN I think I'm opening myself up to a lot of criticism, but maybe I need that, I don't know.

I'm 29. I've been seeing a man who is 52 for the last 10 months. We meet every lunch time (work in different places but same city). We go home together, sometimes meet for breakfast, have dinner or coffee every evening. We've never had sex but have been intimate. We love each other. He's married but hasn't been intimate with his wife for 7 years and sleep in different parts to the house on his wife's request. I'm a secret because of his two kids. In a year, his youngest goes to university and him and his wife have already discussed splitting at that point and are together for the kids.

I have had a blunt conversation with him about 'us.' What we are etc. He said he'd marry me but couldn't give me what I wanted, and that if I was happy with having maybe 15 'good' years with him, then he'd be with me. He also says if I ever want to stop meeting and spending time together, he will accept that instantly but will always be there for me.

I feel so confused. He claims to not want to be open about us because of his kids and that his wife wouldnt obviously stay living with him if she knew he was seeing me..which would then disrupt the kids. He says in a year it will change. I then ask why would she care if you both say the marriage has been over for 7 years anyway? I've said to him that anyone would tell me that he was taking me for a ride. He then shows me texts and so on that prove his points (they could be fake but i don't believe they are as the first time we had the chat he got his phone out to show me so couldnt have prepared them).

I also feel confused because i would hands down marry him in weeks were the situation different and he was younger. I've been on dates since I started seeing him, mainly because there's no real future with him. But I love this man and it sounds like such a cliche I know.

Feel confused as to how to handle the whole thing and it;s come to a head this morning when I just knew I needed some advice. Please help me get my head together on this...I'm such a strong, decisive person in other areas of life!

Well most people who are dating go to each other's homes , phone ( not just text ) each other from home, know where the other works , perhaps meet for lunch and eventually meet each other's family, friends and colleagues . If you dont then it's a big clue that you are the OW.

andinto. I'm baffled by your post. 'So much emphasis' is put on it TO SAVE A LOT OF ANGUISH AND HEARTACHE.

The lies aren't obvious fyi. They are devastatingly plausible. These fuckers exploit women on their own.

So yy they're being cruel to two women but we want to be sure we're not one of them. Worth the extra legwork imo.

Life isn't just theory you know

Sorry that wasn't to you , bubbling up . It's very sad that you have to do that, but you are obviously smart and clued up .

Why keep blaming and putting the onus on the woman (who frankly hasn't made any vows to the wife)

The married man and the OW share responsibility, surely? In this case, the OP says she always knew he was married and living with his wife and child. She may not have made any vows with the wife, but isn't it common decency to steer clear of an affair with her husband?
Without taking responsibility away from the husband too of course.

The title of this thread is misleading. I suspect OP knew she was the OW. What she seems to be asking is whether the man is lying to her about leaving his wife one day.

You've gone very quiet kathy, have you finished it yet?

So yy they're being cruel to two women but we want to be sure we're not one of them. Worth the extra legwork imo.

Yes - I get this point. But that is something to do to protect yourself. But I don't understand the blame being placed on women who are deceived as much as the wife (often deceived even more than the wife given how unlikely it is the husband will actually leave in those situations). I simply don't think there is a duty on any women to check that a separated man she is seeing is actually separated by phoning his wife. If what he says is plausible and he appears trustworthy, she hasn't done anything wrong by believing him.

The choice not to check up may appear naive in retrospect, but there are a lot of genuinely separated men out there! Unless there are clear red flags (which there are in the OP's situation, hence my view that she should end the "relationship" immediately) I don't think the women who find themselves in a position of being lied to deserve all of the blame that they frequently seem to get on this board.

I don't see anyone blaming anyone who has genuinely been deceived and lied to .

But the OP here has been TOLD from the outset that this man is married, living with his wife and kids and they don't know about her . She KNOWS they are married , he's not lied about that .

He's only lied about not having sex will his wife . And she's naive enough to to

A. Believe it
B. Think a marriage is defined by sex therefore he's not REALLY married and she's not REALLy an OW because they don't have PIV sex

Oh and I am definitely in the camp that believes the cheating partner is much more to blame. I know other people disagree, but personally when I have been cheated on in the past I have always squarely blamed the person who I trusted and who was deceiving me. I have no love or respect for the women who facilitated it, but in the particular circumstances I don't feel they really owed me anything and I don't even necessarily blame them for putting their own perceived happiness ahead of mine. So I suppose those experiences do colour my view of how much it is fair to blame the OW - just as other people's bad experiences have led them to different views.

Kr1srina - yes, I agree with you. I was responding to the more general point made that any man who says he is separated needs to be checked up on.

I agree with that andinto.

Id also say that anyone can change and be a better person in the future. I don't want to sound like I'm condemning the OW forever

X post. I meant I agreed with andinto' previous post sorry

biptinthebud - yes, I assumed that was what you meant! I fully respect the view that OW are equally to blame. I have just found it hard to really feel that in the past because I have felt so much more betrayed and hurt by my partner!

andintothefire
Sorry but anyone who knowingly gets into a relationship with a man already in a relationship is scum. I don't give a flying fuck whether there aren't enough single men to go round (really?) other people's partners should be off the radar. I'm watching someone go through hell because of a cunt bucket and a deceitful cock garage of a partner, and I've been through it myself. So sorry, but no sympathy here. Run away together, they deserve each other.

You are the OW. He is stringing you along. You will always come last in his life. Even if he did leave his family and wife for you (very unlikely), he would do the same to you in time. Find someone else. Someone who is not married. No good will come of this relationship

I'm not judging you for being with an older man or having an affair. I'm just struck that yet again, like so many many people who get involved with married/attached individuals, you're doing the classic act of imagining that it's something that has just happened to you, and no result of your own choice or agency.

I see this again and again and again. People talk about being "sucked" or "falling" in, of events "taking on a life of their own", endless language that absolves them from any responsibility. In your case, you know the man is married, living with his wife and has no plans to leave her any time soon, but you're questioning whether you're an other woman.

Whence such cognitive dissonance? Own your choices that brought you here. And make another choice before you lose your prime years on a man who has made it abundantly clear he has nothing to offer you. I understand that older men have an emotional maturity and experience that are often attractive to younger women, and I certainly understand that many people have successful age gap relationships. But this man has nothing to give you and you will waste your youth thinking your time will come.

I think she knows she is being naive and manipulated. And there's a passive slant to all her posts that give the impression she's slightly enjoying that as it equals no responsibility.

OP, you sound ten years younger than your actual age.

Texting and meeting for coffee/lunch is not a relationship.

I've gone quiet because I've not been constantly on here and also because I've made my decision so don't feel there's much more to discuss.

I appreciate all the views everyone has shared and understand the harsher comments. As unbelievable as it may seem, I really did believe him, and shouldn't have. I won't do it again that's for sure. I think the questions were raised in my mind as time went on, as more more things didn't fully add up. Still amazed he could be so full of shit, you really wouldn't think he'd be capable of it to meet and talk to him. Live and learn...

Also aware that texting and coffee isn't a relationship. Never once said that it was.

Passive...? I'd say I'm just accepting that his shit can't be defended. I'm not going to apologise for trusting someone I actually had a lot of respect for. I should have been more cynical. Agsin, I'll have to take the harsh words because I'm responsible for my own actions. Even the harsher posts have been helpful so thank you, everyone, for sharing views.

So what are you going to do then. You haven't actually said.

Last night he text, I said that I couldn't continue meeting him and that we couldn't speak as we had been because i was no longer comfortable with it. He asked why and i said it was obvious. He asked if we could meet tomorrow and I said no. He said he'd give me space as I was 'clearly upset over something.' I didn't reply and not heard from him today.

It was hard but also liberating. The confusion and second guessing was horrible in the last week. Glad that I'm not dealing with that anymore.

Dude, I want to be kind to you. I think you may need to change your mindset - this seems to all be about him. Where are you in this? Perhaps you are rather at a crossroads / crisis point in your life.

At your age, I would want a boyfriend who can reasonably commit to spending Valentine's Day / Christmas / my birthday with me. Perhaps someone who would be enthusiastic about going away for last minute mini breaks to Marrakech / Iceland / Brighton. This isn't this guy.

Plus, I assume you want children? If you want them and he doesn't, that is a recipe for despair as there is no compromise on that.

I think you need to be kind to yourself. Treat yourself like your own daughter. Go out with friends and have fun. Take up running (perhaps join a running club where you can meet athletic men in their twenties and thirties). Make a point of making conversation with everyone you meet, particularly if you are shy.

Ah, cross posts. Well done.

And when he continues to contact you ?

When you get lonely and just want to talk to him ?

great post cru cru

That's going to be the hard part. Firstly I'm spending today making sure my time outside work is filled. So breakfasts before work won't be happening and coffee won't be an option.

The messaging temptation is going to be hardest I think. Though I have a feeling that spending less time in person will also mean we message less. Feels hard. Need to be busy.