Leaving an abusive relationship may be a difficult choice but it's still a choice, right?

[maggiethemagpie]

I will confess before we go any further that I have very little experience of abusive relationships. Personally - never, I am just not attracted to that kind of dynamic. I was exposed to my mum's abusive relationship with my stepfather when I was a child however. Maybe that's why I have 'never gone there' as an adult?

I have a friend who knows being with her abusive partner is the wrong thing, and says things like she hopes it will fizzle out or he'll want to spend less time with her (fat chance) but despite repeatedly trying to leave him, can't do so.

I have struggled to understand why. They are not married, or cohabiting, have no dependents, and have been together apx 18 months (they are late 30s) however she has been trying to leave him since 4 months in.

I can see that psychologically she's in some sort of trap, but surely the ultimate choice to stay or go is hers? I'm not denying that it's a difficult choice, it must be a very difficult choice but then life is full of difficult choices and these are what shape us and make us grow.

So is it a free choice to stay in these kind of relationships? Or is it a bit like addiction - where logically the right thing to do is to stop but due to the drug dependency it's not so easy?

I do have some experience with addiction so that may be an easier way to understand it. I don't subscribe to a disease model though - I still think remaining addicted to anything be it drink, substance or gambling or whatever, is still a choice although often a very difficult one.

So is remaining in an abusive relationship a choice or not?

I agree with Idealweather on that, I said earlier I had changed my position since starting this thread, and come to realise that some women would dearly love to leave but just can't do it.

So you've managed to persuade me on that one, hope that is seen as a positive.

I have read the whole thread thanks. And yes, some other posters are similarly too close to victimn blaming IMO.

Am sure there will be research and views from organisations seeking to help people in bad situations abouy whether or not that line of thinking/suggestion by friends and family is helpful for people in abusive relationships.

Care to post any links, Duckdeamon?

I think what I find offensive Maggie is u think your better than me and other people on this thread because you've not been in an abusive relationship, would u think the same if I had been raped or nearly killed on the street ? You may well of Sussed out your friends abuser but then he wasn't abusing u! And others are very clever at convincing others they are a good guy!

I don't think i'm better than anyone else, that may be your opinion but it's not my own. I do genuinely think it's very unlikely I'd find myself in this kind of relationship, certainly for any length of time, and it's crazy that people are offended by that notion. But don't worry I've had lots of other shit in my life, so that doesn't make me any better than anyone else.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.pt/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.thamesvalley.police.uk/da_booklet_16_12_08.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwi0jvnZoObLAhVBvBQKHdkYB0c4ChAWCB4wAw&usg=AFQjCNGbWV3fzF6QGxFJdkwr5AXwz-O3Wg&sig2=MWu3ELvQIX3t6qSY9wt6yw" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If someone you know is experiencing domestic abuse

But either did I think I would be , I was the one saying why do people put up with that, I never would, I'd be gone first sign of something! I'm eating my words now

Have a look at the Womens Aid and Refuge websites maggie. There's a lot of material on there, backed up by research and practical experience from years of working with women who've been abused.

OK, so how do you encourage a women in a DV situation to see that she has a choice, if you're all saying on here that I can't hold that point of view without being a 'victim blamer'? I'm genuinely interested in how to resolve this dilemma.

Stop focusing on the 'choice' to stay/leave. If she is willing, ask her to articulate her 'red line' in reference to his behaviour (she may cross it but it does help to have said it out loud). Focus on safety. Help her to identify her strengths and capabilities. Offer practical support. Understand that leaving is a process and that every time she returns she is not going back to the abuse but experiencing a failure to sustain leaving. Most abused women leave 3-5 times before it is permanent and each new attempt is an assertion of the longer term intention. Undermine his control by offering her something different. Ask her what she needs to stay safe. Don't badmouth him - you just push her into defending him. Tell her she deserves to live free from fear.

You might be interested in <a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.pt/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=solacewomensaid.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/SWA-Finding-Costs-of-Freedom-Report.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiKxMWJpubLAhWBPhQKHbFUA1QQFggcMAE&usg=AFQjCNERVcpIzOQ-lAIEUV_EDc1-rJAUIg&sig2=9TFpiAmGmPgtOp2t4nvTBw" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">this report which documents what happens to women post Refuge - it shows just how long it takes before you experience anything but loss.

It's not down to anyone on here to educate you. People have taken the time to try but you appear to be very set in your mindset.

If you're genuinely looking to have your viewpoint challenged those organisations I referred to are a really good place to start.

Flippinada how can you say that when I've said I've agreed with certain posters and changed my position? I find that very insulting. Just because I don't entirely agree with you doesn't mean I am 'very set in my mindset'.

Of course no one is obliged to educate me but some posters may wish to, how can you speak for everyone?

Wish I hadn't bothered to ask the question now, of course no one is going to educate me on how to encourage someone to see that they have a choice because she doesn't have a choice does she, to think that is just 'victim blaming'.

Well, you can all stay victims, be in the right and stay stuck if that's the case.

I'm flouncing. Really had enough of some people's attitudes and opinions on this thread, as I said it is only DV victims that can possibly comment on a DV thread on mumsnet, no one else's opinions are valid.

Now that's not really in the spirit of a discussion forum at all.

Annie your comment is really interesting.
help her identify her strengths and capabilities is what talking about choice does to me. If I have a choice, then I have the choice the best of who I am if that makes sense? And therefore I have a light of hope at the end of the tunnel.

Hey I started posting resources!

You just don't get it do you...you cannot encourage a woman to leave if she is being abused she will do it if/when she is ready so just let her know that you'll be there when she needs you-not when you tell her she should.

You cannot resolve this issue because it isn't yours to resolve

X-post. Don't let the door hit you in the arse on your way out.

maggie can I remind you that if your friend has a choice then she is also allowed to 'chose' something that you don't think is the right choice (Im using 'choosing' in a very loose manner of course).

The only thing to do is to be there and listen and NOT judge whatever she is doing. To offer unconditional support even if you think she is 'choosing' the wrong path.

Everyone takes their decision based on whatever information and understanding, emotions, strengths are present for them st the time and she might well be making the right for her at this moment in time.
What you can't be doing is judging her for her decision.

The problem in abuse situations is that choice (stay/leave) is all anyone focuses on and it carries an implicit victim blaming message that the abuser has invariably drummed into her (it's all your fault this happens / you made me do it / you're just as bad as me - I'm not the monster here! etc etc) What is helpful is to focus on safety and her well-being. In fact if you can avoid talking about him or the relationship at all - so much the better. She already spends 99% of her waking life focused on him - she needs to know there is something else her life can / could consist of. I do understand the desire to focus on choice and how it can be empowering - experience has taught me in abuse situations it doesn't often produce this desired result. For every woman it does work for, there are another 50 who only hear '.. and thus it's all your fault. He is right. I am stupid / useless / ridiculous to think I could make it on my own...' which are not odds I care to play with vulnerable people.

I have silently read this totally at the lack of genuine insight about DV from OP. You sound very angry. I'm not sure why.

If you want to 'educate' yourself why don't you read all the links Annie posted instead of shooting from the hip as soon as posters take issue with your opinion?

I don't think many people 'choose' to become addicts. They certainly don't choose for the 12 steps not to work. People don't choose to make shockingly bad decisions. They don't choose to become ill, and people don't 'battle' cancer any more than they do a broken leg. It is massively frustrating to see loved ones with their foot on the accelerator towards the grave. Lots of us hope beyond hope that the reality is flawed. I thought for years that my marriage was stable. I really thought I had been through the mill with psychiatrists, psyhologists, therapists.... For nearly my entire adult life. To find myself wrong is just heartbreaking and horrible. What I had thought was a good decision may not be so.

Strangely I just switched the TV on, there was a story about a woman being abused she eventually managed to get him out her house , however he came back in the night covered the house in petrol and the house fire killed her and her children. He then killed himself, she chose to leave him but her punishment for that choice was death! Does that not educate u enough!

Wow..well...I think that's the first time one of my posts in my many years on MN has caused someone to flounce.

Thatlife I think many people believe that the end of the relationship = the end of the abuse. Sometimes it is but a lot of the time it really isn't.