Leaving an abusive relationship may be a difficult choice but it's still a choice, right?

[maggiethemagpie]

I will confess before we go any further that I have very little experience of abusive relationships. Personally - never, I am just not attracted to that kind of dynamic. I was exposed to my mum's abusive relationship with my stepfather when I was a child however. Maybe that's why I have 'never gone there' as an adult?

I have a friend who knows being with her abusive partner is the wrong thing, and says things like she hopes it will fizzle out or he'll want to spend less time with her (fat chance) but despite repeatedly trying to leave him, can't do so.

I have struggled to understand why. They are not married, or cohabiting, have no dependents, and have been together apx 18 months (they are late 30s) however she has been trying to leave him since 4 months in.

I can see that psychologically she's in some sort of trap, but surely the ultimate choice to stay or go is hers? I'm not denying that it's a difficult choice, it must be a very difficult choice but then life is full of difficult choices and these are what shape us and make us grow.

So is it a free choice to stay in these kind of relationships? Or is it a bit like addiction - where logically the right thing to do is to stop but due to the drug dependency it's not so easy?

I do have some experience with addiction so that may be an easier way to understand it. I don't subscribe to a disease model though - I still think remaining addicted to anything be it drink, substance or gambling or whatever, is still a choice although often a very difficult one.

So is remaining in an abusive relationship a choice or not?

Thanks Becca.

Forgiven I'm very mindful of the fact that people will find some of the comments on here upsetting - understandably so - but I think on balance the good outweighs the bad.

Berties posts in particular are very helpful.

Maggie I think what people are trying to say is that the majority of the time it is the case that they can't. Inability isn't always about practical barriers. Not only in abuse but in other areas - look at any 'help I can't kill this spider' thread or agrünen about controlled crying. Obviously a grown woman is physically capable of killing a tiny little spider, and its the easiest thing in the world to walk out of a room and close the door. But lots of people feel unable to kill things or unable to leave their baby to cry. If we operated solely on physical ability we would be robots.

Becca thanks for a fast reply. I see the point and will leave it in your capable hands to decide as I've saved my posts now. I'm reading on mobile so it's hard for me to see if it's different to other threads asking the question as I've seen before.

I think the arguments about whether maggie or her DH are abusive are bizarre and irrelevant. Not sure why people have got into that.

The spider thing I get - I run screaming to DH if there is a spider. Luckily, it doesn't impede the quality of my life significantly, or I may feel that I should do something about it.

But I see what you mean there about it appearing easy but not being in reality.

But by being held accountable for not leaving, you are blaming them, for their continued abuse.

It is not easy to leave an abusive relationship, it's even harder to stay away.

Not because you want it, not because you're not strong enough or clever enough to stay away, but because that is how abusers work.

Bertie - I think its because they are unhappy with my notion that I wouldn't get into an abusive relationship/haven't so far.

You all don't know this, but I've had a lot of other negative crap in my life instead so it's not like I've had this happy life all these years whilst others have been suffering.

I do feel it's useful to leave posts which challenge a victim blaming mindset up but as said I cant adequately tell which way the balance tips. But if victim blaming is always silenced and never countered then people will go on believing those things without ever really having it challenged. I think it's fair to have that challenge because really the victim blaming mindset seems logical, it's just based on a faulty premise.

It will wash, if someone is abused, let's say they didn't have his dinner on the table on time or something, and the abuser blames the woman, I wouldn't agree that it's her fault that she's being abused for that.

I came on to this thread saying she did have to take responsibility for the fact that she'd remained in the relationship but I don't see that as the same thing.

However, I've come to understand that some women just aren't capable of taking that responsibility, and I can have compassion for them.

It is naive to think that you're somehow immune to abusive relationships. I do think being vulnerable/emotionally unhealthy can leave you more open to it but even somebody who knows a lot about abuse can be taken in.

"...if victim blaming is always silenced and never countered then people will go on believing those things without ever really having it challenged"

I agree - this is why I feel the thread should stay up. Not that my opinions/feelings should take precedence over anyone elses of course.

Bertie it may be naive, but it's also based in reality. I've never gone out with anyone even remotely controlling. Other negative things - yes. But not controlling. I do tend to kick back at being told what to do so I like to think that a contolling man would not find me very easy to control. He'd be better off finding someone more controllable. However, it will probably all remain theoretical presuming my marriage is permanent, as I intend it to be

"It is naive to think that you're somehow immune to abusive relationships"

Yes, this with bells on. I was in an abusive relationship for years and didn't realise it. He was my first serious boyfriend and I didn't know any better - I do now, of course. Still doesn't make me immune.

It actually took an outsider saying 'this is abuse' to make me realise.

Maggie, in your last paragraph you are once again coming across as dreadfully superior.

It is sad really, but also strangely hilarious that after 13 pages of having abuse explained to you, you are still seeing us all as psychologically unhealthy, weak and pathetic. Have you not understood anything that has been written?

Look at what I said upthread about throwing milk in my stepfathers face when he shouted at me as a child.... maybe I should thank him for instilling in me a healthy or not so healthy aversion to being controlled?

Do you not see how patronising it is to say 'some women just aren't capable of taking responsibility'?

This is not a 'some women' problem. It's a potential situation any woman - or man - could find themselves in. They are temporarily incapable of leaving because of complex emotional, practical and social reasons related to abuse, it doesn't mean that they are less as people.

It is like saying that a person with a broken leg is 'just incapable of taking the responsibility for their own toilet needs' when actually the problem is that their leg is broken and it's incredibly painful for them to drag themselves across the floor to the toilet. The situation they are in is impeding their abilities.

I don't think I am superior saying that I am not very good at being 'controlled'. Ask anyone who knows me. If it avoids you thinking I have a superiority complex, I have lots of other faults and problems and issues to compensate.

Bertie - I'm not saying they are lesser people. But surely can't you see that the ones who CAN take responsiblity for leaving are the ones that leave!

Or are you saying that no one who gets into an abusive relationship can leave it early on, they all have to wait years and years to get out?

I think we are going around in circles and you're taking offence at the exact thing you're complaining at others taking offence about.

It's a hugely emotional area. It's great that you're in a happy relationship and I hope that it will indeed last for life, so whether or not you come across anybody abusive is neither here nor there. The reality is not that many people are actually abusive so to say that you've never experienced an abusive relationship isn't necessarily something you've done,it could just be chance.

It would be nice if experiencing past abuses acted as some sort of inoculation against future abuse but sadly it doesn't. I agree that you can learn about the signs and that will reduce your chances of being taken in by it. Just not to 0%.

The point is, maggie, that some abusers would latch onto you because precisely because of the resistance to abusive relationships that you show.

You will have an achilles heel, and an abusive man would manipulate that. Like I said, I didn't even realise my relationship was abusive. And that just baffles me now. But that is how it works.

Some men target intelligent, successful, strong women for exactly that reason.

Leaving isn't as simple as choosing to stay or go as much as you might like to think.

I do wonder how old you are because up until my mid/late 20s, I would probably have agreed with you.

People don't have to wait years no, obviously not. Sometimes the combination of the abuse style and the victim's personality, mental state, circumstances etc work out that she can see what's happening early on and put the brakes on. Sometimes she gets drawn in. I'm just saying that there isn't one foolproof abuse proof mentality or mindset. Overt control is just one kind of abuse, for example.

I have to go now but I hope that makes sense. I wouldn't spend too much time trying to argue about this if I were you. It's unlikely to be an issue for you personally and if it helps you feel safe to believe that you would see off any potential abuser at the early stages then fine. It doesn't hurt anybody as long as you keep it to yourself.

I feel that myself, and some other posters, used your own description of your relationship to reflect our experiences of what we once thought were loving relationships NOT that YOU are in an abusive relationship Maggie, or abusive yourself. And if some did, it was in reaction perhaps to your assertion that because your friend didn't have children or a house to consider therefore she shouldn't have any problem walking away from her partner.

My ex and I did discuss, did compromise, I was happy fucking ecstatic It was still an abusive relationship.

You said upthread the therapy I underwent looked at my relationship patterns and how I'd subconciously manifested negative patterns in my life... I am not trying to pick you apart but are you referring to a specific type of relationship here? (not an intimate one) as previously you had stated that (paraphrasing again!) if you hadn't been in an abusive relationship in 40 years it wasn't going to happen now. What were the relationship patterns that were negative and how did they impact on you? I am genuinely interested maggie.

I would hope that anyone reading this thread takes from it that victim blaming is abusive in itself and that while some posts could appear to confirm what your abuser is telling you, there are many more that will act as a support for you.

I think in many ways it's like Stockholm Syndrome - you begin to agree you deserve the abuse in a niggling way. It's strange in a way really - but yes very psychological.

I've not been in a serious abusicw relationship just emotionally and sexually and a threat of physical violence but it felt like it was normal and this is just how relationships are and that I was complaining but had no right.

I was 17 though so was naive. I can't take back that relationship as I lost my virginity to him under some duress.

My Mum was in an abusive relationship when younger but it took him hitting her whilst pregnant with my sister made her leave when other things didn't.

I don't think it's as simple as its bad for you therefore you just leave. Mostly because the abuse is gradual. If it happened all of a sudden out of nowhere you'd more than likely take action as it was obvious it was wrong.

In regards to abusive relationships in childhood often leaves you sensitive to those types or the opposite - drawn to them.

I don't think the broken leg analogy is helpful. It makes the abuse sound like something that can happen to anyone, completely random chance, and for a very long time they have no choice in whether to stay or to go. A bit like getting cancer or something, it could happen to anyone.

I can understand that for some women, that's the best way to look at it. But to say that's the only way of looking at it is wrong.

There is another interpretation, that the woman's underlying psychology does play a massive part in it. This is massively backed up by psychological literature. Not all, but a lot. It's also not to blame those women, it's not their fault that they ended up like that. I have only compassion for them.

I will respectfully accept your right to hold your view and I ask that you do the same for me.

Maggie throwing the milk was great, but what if he then beat you to make you scared of standing up for yourself again... Then again and again and again each time until you stopped standing up for yourself, as you know what would happen if you did.

In couples, the 'victim' loves the abuser and can suffer trauma bonding. They cling on to the good times outweighing the bad. Minimising their behaviour. Shame of failing as a family.

I'm in the process of leaving my abusive husband. It's so hard to let go what I want him to be, and the good times. It happened gradually. He idolised me for the first few years. I always considered myself a strong person and I refuse to be a victim of the type you describe, helpless and hopeless. He's ground me down to feeling worthless.

It shouldn't be my responsibility to leave. All I did was love him and do the best I could.he should've treated me equally. He should never have put it on me to leave

If I knew, I'm baring my soul here so go easy on me and other posters too, ie please don't refer to this in later posts to bait me, but to answer your question my issues were around abandonment... I had relationships where I was abandoned rather than abused, or I merely failed to have relationships at all which is just as upsetting in its own way when all you want is a loving partner.

Thank god after a lot of therapy I eventually formed a healthy relationship.