Leaving an abusive relationship may be a difficult choice but it's still a choice, right?

[maggiethemagpie]

I will confess before we go any further that I have very little experience of abusive relationships. Personally - never, I am just not attracted to that kind of dynamic. I was exposed to my mum's abusive relationship with my stepfather when I was a child however. Maybe that's why I have 'never gone there' as an adult?

I have a friend who knows being with her abusive partner is the wrong thing, and says things like she hopes it will fizzle out or he'll want to spend less time with her (fat chance) but despite repeatedly trying to leave him, can't do so.

I have struggled to understand why. They are not married, or cohabiting, have no dependents, and have been together apx 18 months (they are late 30s) however she has been trying to leave him since 4 months in.

I can see that psychologically she's in some sort of trap, but surely the ultimate choice to stay or go is hers? I'm not denying that it's a difficult choice, it must be a very difficult choice but then life is full of difficult choices and these are what shape us and make us grow.

So is it a free choice to stay in these kind of relationships? Or is it a bit like addiction - where logically the right thing to do is to stop but due to the drug dependency it's not so easy?

I do have some experience with addiction so that may be an easier way to understand it. I don't subscribe to a disease model though - I still think remaining addicted to anything be it drink, substance or gambling or whatever, is still a choice although often a very difficult one.

So is remaining in an abusive relationship a choice or not?

That's life. I did say upthread that within five mins of meeting my friend's abusive partner, despite the fact that he was in nice guy mode (as early in relationship) and I didn't know him from adam, I got a very strong gut reaction that there was something dodgy about him. Call it intuition - maybe from my childhood. But I did sense very early on that he was not quite the guy my friend had been gushing about since meeting him a few weeks earlier.

I remember saying to my partner, I don't know why I am so sure of this but there's something about him, he's not right for her. I then tried to rationalise it thinking maybe he was just shy, and I was friendly to him and tried to build the relationship.... interesting that my intuition turned out to be accurate.

IfIknew - I was a very different person with the liar/cheat. I certainly would not go back to someone like that now, or tolerate that kind of behaviour in the relationship.

At the time I had very poor self esteem and thought anyone was better than no one. But I did 'come to my senses' fairly early on. Maybe if he'd tried to win me back it would have been harder. But he was not a 'controlling' type IMHO. More he got off on cheating, lying, having sex with other people behind my back. Interestingly I did get a strong intuition about him too but was so desperate to be in a relationship that I ignored it. I remember seeing in my mind's eye a 'warning' sign when we started going out. Britney Spear's Toxic was in the chart at the time and it was a very very apt song!

As for my friend, she has ignored my wedding invite then told people I don't want her there. My last communication to her was to say she could come with another friend as there was room in the car and did she want a bed at mine. Then nothing back from her. So who's abandoning who?

I think saying you attract that same sort of person over and over is a load of crap too. Maybe a small minority. I'm not sure I'm now immuned to the abuser but I have a lot better sense of what to look for, and I can honestly say I'm very happy now and treated with respect, but that still doesn't mean I won't be abused in the future however I am a lot stronger now because of what I went through in some ways it did me good , that's trying to look at it positively!

Oh and btw I met this pyscho abuser through a friend who had nothing but good things to say about him. She even said 'I don't know why he's single' ...well I found out the hard way! I feel very guilty I put my kids through that, but again positive side is I've shown my daughter u don't stay with someone like that and what to look for . I have to try and be positive now!

Thank you Idealweather. I was getting lonely being the sole voice on the 'take personal responsibility' concept.

I think I believe in it so strongly because I only really began to change my life when I began to take responsiblity for it.

If anyone is interested, a very skilled therapist gently suggested to me that some of the negative patterns in my life could have been caused by my negative attitude and beliefs. I was incensed at first, really I was very very afraid that this meant I was the one who was wrong, and that I'd fucked up my life.

However, through the therapy I began to see that yes whilst I had in one sense 'caused' these things to happen, I was not to blame for it. But it was my responsiblity. And with that sense of responsiblity I was no longer powerless over my life, at the mercy of fate. I could take control.

That lead to a breakthrough and I began to make progess fast and went from having a significant mental health problem/addiction/depression issues to being in a very good place today and being undiagnosed with the mental health problem. I didn't belive that could happen but it did.

Anyway, that's just my experience. If it hadn't been for the therapist I wouldn't have been able to take this step, it's to painful to do on ones own. Maybe that's why people seem so scared of it.

That's an interesting way of looking at it IdealWeather. I agree that 'it's your choice' can be seen as inspiring and motivational.

ThatsLife you are dead right about manipulation. My abuser was just like that, very sly and cunning - and extremely skilled at presenting a 'good guy' image to the world. I had friends telling me they thought we had the perfect relationship! Laughable when I look back .

He took a lot of people in, not just me - even hard nosed cynical types who thought they were wise to this kind of thing.

But Maggie I've thought that about friends partners too, and been right I thought I was a very good judge of character too. I worked out my sisters partner very quickly but it is very very different when it's u! I've been with people and on the first date ive thought he's weird or ive had that feeling many times but this guy was clever. I told u even a friend of his didn't see it and thought I was lying, then u start questioning yourself this is how they work. Some are transparent but others aren't and these are the dangerous ones!

Exactly flippinada! Very hard to explain that to someone who has never experienced it.

You might find the contribution from Refuge to today's Woman's hour informative.
"Leaving is a process"

She also duscusses victim blaming.

some of the negative patterns in my life could have been caused by my negative attitude and beliefs

Unless these things involved a 3rd party they are not comparable to DV.

I have done destructive things to myself. But DV was most definitely something that was done to me by someone else.

This is a very important distinction.

Absolutely Thatslife. I think it's very difficult to understand unless you have been there.

To start with, he was absolutely wonderful. Absolutely couldn't do enough for me, and I fell in love with him. He gradually isolated me from all sources of support (friends and family) until I was completely dependant on him, then slowly but surely notched up the abuse until I was a complete and utter wreck. This happened very slowly over a number of years.

Had he marched into my life and announced his intentions you wouldn't have seen me for dust, because who in their right mind would hang around for all of that? But that's not how people like that work.

Flippinada, they are a piece of work aren't they! I remember discussing with him about my ex before him, who was a saint in comparison, I will always remember him saying ' what an idiot , let's treat u like u should be treated ' hmmm

SmallLegs you explain it very well.

Of course I'm responsible for myself (and my DS). I'm not responsible for what my abuser did to me - that was his decision.

But Flippinada if you are responsible for yourself are you not responsible for getting out of the way of the abuser's path?

Again Maggie yes your responsible but by leaving quite often your risking your life, your children's life. They don't just let u leave like that and by that time you are a wreck not thinking like u did before u met them. This is called manipulation and son any are killed at this part . I nearly was!

Small legs, I believe all relationships are a two way process, even abusive ones. Two people are interacting, in healthy or unhealthy ways. completely subconsciously of course. Although the actual abuse is 'done' to the victim, the relationship itself is a two way process.

Yes, mine was (and still is) a right piece of work.

I think people who confidently pronounce they will never be taken in by an abuser because they know better are very naive.

Some abusers will look for vulnerable targets, some enjoy the challenge of breaking people down (mine did) for whatever twisted reason they have. They're just awful people, basically.

Yes but saying that doesn't mean it will be done in a day.
Just as I'm sure the work you did with that therapist took time, so does the victim of abuse need time to get her strength back to be able to leave.

IMO the choice is all ways there. What isn't is the strength to act on it or very simply the ability to see it there (eg if you see yourself as a helpless victim, dont have any self esteem etc it will be very hard to comprehend/see you do have that choice iyswim)

Yeah, I think I rescind my earlier apology. You really are a piece of work maggie.

OP IMO you're sailing too close to victim blaming.

I wish I hadn't contributed to this thread at all now I've read on.

I still all these years on struggle with not only the abuse I got, but the victim blaming I had by people who I thought may be there to support me.

I couldn't agree with you more Ideal Weather.

Duckdeamon, I really don't care, I've had this argument countless times on this thread and don't believe that encouraging personal responsibility is the same as victim blaming.

Read the whole thread I said many times I don't blame the victim for any abuse that happens to them but if they can be encouraged to see their life as something they can influence rather than something that just happens to them that can only help them to break free.

Your beliefs Maggie are absolutely crazy , an abusive relationship is not 2 way , how can u even think like that! ??? Are u sure your not abusive to your partner ?

Ideal weather just said the choice is always there, why are you all having a go at me and not at Ideal weather who is saying the same as me, I just said I could not agree with her more.

I do feel I am being unfairly picked on when others say similar to me its ok but if I do its not.

I think you misunderstand me That's life. What I mean is that it's two people interacting, maybe I didn't explain myself very well, I withdraw what I said as it's been misinterpreted.

Yes but idealweather at least realises the strength isn't there due to the abuse, and in some cases there isnt much of a choice really, stay and be abused or leave and be killed or still abused or worse have your child killed, that is what a victim is quite often facing. It's not all happy ever after when u leave it gets worse!!!!!

But still interacting is a loose word as your not , your too scared to interact!