Leaving an abusive relationship may be a difficult choice but it's still a choice, right?

[maggiethemagpie]

I will confess before we go any further that I have very little experience of abusive relationships. Personally - never, I am just not attracted to that kind of dynamic. I was exposed to my mum's abusive relationship with my stepfather when I was a child however. Maybe that's why I have 'never gone there' as an adult?

I have a friend who knows being with her abusive partner is the wrong thing, and says things like she hopes it will fizzle out or he'll want to spend less time with her (fat chance) but despite repeatedly trying to leave him, can't do so.

I have struggled to understand why. They are not married, or cohabiting, have no dependents, and have been together apx 18 months (they are late 30s) however she has been trying to leave him since 4 months in.

I can see that psychologically she's in some sort of trap, but surely the ultimate choice to stay or go is hers? I'm not denying that it's a difficult choice, it must be a very difficult choice but then life is full of difficult choices and these are what shape us and make us grow.

So is it a free choice to stay in these kind of relationships? Or is it a bit like addiction - where logically the right thing to do is to stop but due to the drug dependency it's not so easy?

I do have some experience with addiction so that may be an easier way to understand it. I don't subscribe to a disease model though - I still think remaining addicted to anything be it drink, substance or gambling or whatever, is still a choice although often a very difficult one.

So is remaining in an abusive relationship a choice or not?

Funny!!
You are a piece of work
Mumsnet- hurry up and delete this

Becca, are you serious? I feel that's unfair to posters like myself who have put time and effort into replying. There have been threads like this asking about the motivations of abuse victims before and they have always been left to stand as it was felt that the discussion was valuable.

Has there been a massive shift in what is considered deletable recently? I'm really surprised this would be something you'd stamp on.

Abuse is not a straight line. As a PP eloquently described upthread, there are many different ways in which different types of people are caught up in abusive relationships (mine was the 'little boy lost' for sure). I wasn't physically abused, many others are, some cheat, mine didn't (afaik). I do see my abuser type though, and his methods, in other posts on this thread, they're not the unique special little snowflakes they think they are. I feel sorry for your friend - it's easy to be on the outside of a situation and judge because you're one step removed from it. I can see so many more dysfunctional and abusive relationships around me now precisely because of what I went through. I could ask the same question as you 'why do they stay?' because from an external viewpoint it's clear cut that they are being abused on a daily basis and in far more overt ways than I ever was. But I don't because I was them once upon a time and I couldn't see what was right under my nose. Your Mum left when she was physically hit, after suffering years of obvious (to you) emotional abuse, have you ever asked her why she stayed until that last day?

Sandinmytoes, if I am happy in the relationship surely I'm not being manipulated? If I was being manipulated, there would be some sort of emotional reaction or unease on my part, maybe not the first time it happened but over time? I was married for eight/nine years before the devaluation phase began in earnest - and we were viewed as quite the happiest couple anyone knew in all that time (and for some years afterwards), but I was being abused/manipulated right from the beginning. An 'ouch' moment once or twice a year (the one that you actually saw and felt, though looking back you can see many more) is not that big a deal in a supposed ideal marriage - as I said we never argued - and easily justified and forgotten about because you love him and he loves you, and you compromise and discuss, and he's so laid back, right? Fwiw though, I would never have married my ex if I had identified him as being 'lazy' in the relationship beforehand.

I can't believe people on here are telling me I must be in a manipulative relationship because I compromise with my partner or sometimes do what he wants to do out of respect and consideration for him . I don't think anyone is saying that. But it rings bells for me as like you I was the capable one, confident, the decision maker for the most part, because you can discuss and compromise all you want but at the end of the day decisions (big and small) need to be made, particularly when there are children involved, and it eventually all falls on your shoulders because your partner is so easy-going and considerate of your wishes and needs! My self-esteem was so healthy I could make decisions quite easily and confidently because I wasn't afraid of being wrong.

I also had great boundaries, now I realise that you can build the tallest walls and an abuser just sees that as a particularly delicious challenge.

Congratulations on your forthcoming marriage Maggie I do hope that that you are both very happy and too for those still in, and those out, of abusive relationships.

How fucking dare you belittle the experiences of abused women

I have the book too. I think it is you who are being diagnosed, not your partner.

My sister reacted to our abusive upbringing by becoming pretty abusive herself. Before this thread is deleted, and if you are genuine, I want to say that I think you would do well to consider your own attitudes to relationships in general, both with your friend and your husband to be.

People have poured their hearts out in this thread and you think it's fucking funny??!!

I can see there have been some PAs towards the end.

It's quite funny is when people think they're being awfully superior and clever while showing a complete lack of self-awareness and ignorance.

What's definitely not funny is setting out to goad and mock victims of abuse - which I think was what the OP intended all along.

I know, sand. It's so sad, because the op said that she wanted to learn about the dynamics of abuse, but all she has done is tell us we are all stupid and that her friend is too. The Great Long Extract from psychology today was just a stick to beat us with, because all she really wanted was to hear her own opinions validated.

I think it's funny that people are saying my husband is a water torturer or whatever.

Not the other stuff, I didn't mean the whole thread. I have repeatedly said that I feel sorry for women in abusive relationships and I genuinely do.

But to accuse me of being in an abusive relatinship unknowingly is, well, hilarious. Because it's just not true.

I'm not going to bother to defend my relationsihp - believe it if it makes you happier.

Bertie, I appreciated your posts, and I shan't forget them

I think there's much to be learned from this thread so I think it might help someone if it's allowed to stand? (I'm thinking I might hide the relationships topic as I see now I'm not a valid contributor...I mostly contribute in case someone does LTB) .but maybe someone will read this and LTB which seems a reason for it to stand?

Bertie I too have appreciated your posts they have taught me a lot.

Thank you for sharing with me without having a go at me like others have.

I also appreciated her posts. Thank you Bertie.

Please don't deleted the thread Becca, there's a lot of helpful information on here, in amongst the unpleasantness.

out of interest, what have you learned from this thread Lorelei?

Hi all - we were planning on deleting the thread because we believed it was victim blaming, which we do tend to delete outright.

However, if you would all like the discussion to continue to highlight these issues, then we're happy to keep it up.

Lorielei, I think I agree that it should go, despite all the excellent posts describing the dynamics of abuse.

I'm concerned that women still trapped in the cycle of abuse will be gutted when they read some of the goady crap the op has written. I think she is being abusive on this thread, that she blames abused women for their plight because of some deep psychological issues of her own (whether or not she is genuine). There's a lot of harmful stuff that really isn't in the generally supportive spirit of the site.

I'm not blaming anyone for being abused - that is always the abuser's fault.

I'm merely pointing out that people have a responsibility to themselves to try and escape if they can do so.

If they can't , well they have my full sympathy.

BertieBotts 'Becca, are you serious? I feel that's unfair to posters like myself who have put time and effort into replying. There have been threads like this asking about the motivations of abuse victims before and they have always been left to stand as it was felt that the discussion was valuable.

Has there been a massive shift in what is considered deletable recently? I'm really surprised this would be something you'd stamp on'.

I agree

I do agree that the thread should be deleted though, as my views have clearly been misinterpreted.

Maggie, not anything I can explain, not anything about abuse in particular but stuff about me.
Mostly I've realised I shouldn't post on these threads!

But if one person reaches their tipping point because if this thread, something good has happened, yes? I'm sorry people have been rude to you and I think it takes guts to start a questioning thread. I don't think you planned to goad or bully btw.

Cross posted - thank you Becca.

Btw I'm at work on my break so if you ask more questions I can't answer till tomorrow and this might be kaput.

Look after yourselves folks.

Thank you Lorelei, I truly haven't. I'm still amazed that people have misinterpreted me as victim blaming as they can't see the difference between someone being blamed for the actual abuse, and being held accountable for not leaving.

But some particularly bertie and ricecrispie have made me see that for some women, they dont' have the emotional strength or resources to leave so I have softened my position on the issue slightly and come to understand that for some it's just a step too much.

I do hope they do whatever they can to one day make it though.

It's a shame that it feels like no one but abused women can post or reply on an abused woman thread on mumsnet.

Although apparantly I am being abused -without my knowledge - so I guess I'm still ok.