Leaving an abusive relationship may be a difficult choice but it's still a choice, right?

[maggiethemagpie]

I will confess before we go any further that I have very little experience of abusive relationships. Personally - never, I am just not attracted to that kind of dynamic. I was exposed to my mum's abusive relationship with my stepfather when I was a child however. Maybe that's why I have 'never gone there' as an adult?

I have a friend who knows being with her abusive partner is the wrong thing, and says things like she hopes it will fizzle out or he'll want to spend less time with her (fat chance) but despite repeatedly trying to leave him, can't do so.

I have struggled to understand why. They are not married, or cohabiting, have no dependents, and have been together apx 18 months (they are late 30s) however she has been trying to leave him since 4 months in.

I can see that psychologically she's in some sort of trap, but surely the ultimate choice to stay or go is hers? I'm not denying that it's a difficult choice, it must be a very difficult choice but then life is full of difficult choices and these are what shape us and make us grow.

So is it a free choice to stay in these kind of relationships? Or is it a bit like addiction - where logically the right thing to do is to stop but due to the drug dependency it's not so easy?

I do have some experience with addiction so that may be an easier way to understand it. I don't subscribe to a disease model though - I still think remaining addicted to anything be it drink, substance or gambling or whatever, is still a choice although often a very difficult one.

So is remaining in an abusive relationship a choice or not?

Of course it's victim blaming listen to yourself.
Your posts sound hostile. And certainly not impartial.
You're own experiences as a child will have had an impact I don't doubt.

I should also add my mum stood by while her DH treated me and my sister like shit. She had a professional job. Why did she stay?

OP given your attitude I can't be arsed sharing more than is absolutely necessary but lets just say sometimes its easier to stay than leave.
Ex broke into my house one night. I didn't report it. He would have got cautioned or fined or maybe jailed for a month. For daring to phone the police you then get someone who is now twice as fucking angry as they were before.
Now do me a favour and jog on OP.

Methinks you need to brush up on your communication skills OP.

It's no wonder you're getting a rough ride on here when you think it's down to the victims 'personal responsibility' that they are in an abusive relationship (and I can't be arsed to quote all your other triggering points in addition to this)

The reason people get trapped in abusive relationships is fear.

I am wondering why your friend chooses to stay friends with you.

I would leave the relationship advice to someone else. If this is the kind of advice you are giving her it is probably doing far more harm than good.

Yes. It is technically true that it is a choice to stay, you are right. Every day that you choose to put the key in that front door (although some people are not allowed that privilege) and let yourself back in, you are choosing to do so. Every day you don't leave you are, technically, choosing to stay.

But if you don't have money, you don't have family, you don't have friends, you don't have anywhere to go, you have children you have to put to bed that night, you have children you have to feed, you have had your confidence eroded to the point where you believe you would have your children taken into care if you left because of x, y, z mistakes/flaws/incompetencies...

It starts to feel a whole lot less like a choice.

When I was about 15/16, I told my mother I was going to phone childline. She was emotionally abusive and my dad was physically so. At the time, I think I thought it would open her eyes to the fact that what was happening was wrong. She laughed at me and told me that I would just be wasting their time and that they would just tell me that I deserved everything I got and then they would know how awful I was too. So I chose not to. (I was in my late 30s and just out of an abusive marriage before I realised she was probably scared).

I was always told we had to keep it quiet because my dad would lose his job and I'd be responsible for us losing the house, not going on holiday, not being able to eat nice food. So I chose not to.

I could have told teachers at school. But I was worried about my parents getting into trouble and what would happen to me. So I chose not to.

Now the fact that I was a child and not an adult in those specific instances is irrelevant. It's the power dynamic that is important and that is the power dynamic experienced by everyone in an abusive relationship.

It looks like a choice. But it isn't really. The fear of what will happen if you leave is greater than the fear of staying because it's just so huge.

I understand what you mean op. I was in the middle of an abusive relationship between my parents as a child and like the ultimate cliche also ended up in a particularly nasty one myself in my early twenties.

I'm very, very aware of red flags now in other people's relationships and of certain undercurrents in people as a result of this and before I met my dh would give a wide berth to certain men if anything they said or did made me feel on alert.

I think it's different for everyone, I can confidently say now that I'd be gone like a shot if dh started up any controlling behaviour which is probably where you are now too due to your own experiences but when I was younger, that kind of relationship was all I knew so I had to "unlearn" a lot before I knew how to deal with my own situation.

I think you struggle to understand your friend due to your own personal issues with your parents.

Having been in this situation I wonder too how I got into it, or more importantly how I didn't leave for 4 years.

Great relationships before and after.

To the outside he seemed like a great guy.

I didn't mean to offend anyone on this thread, however I'm not going to censor what I say due to the fact that some people may be offended.... this is an emotive topic and some people may be offended by quite a lot.

It is probably true that my own childhood has affected my attitude. I think my friend's relationship has possibly triggered some memories from the past. I didn't even think of my stepfather as being controlling/abusive until I began to think about it recently.

As a child, he came into the family when i was around 4 and all of a sudden there were all these rules, seemingly quite random ones such as no elbows on the dinnertable, and my mum had to do as he said. In those days, it was much more expected that a man was the one in charge, so I don't think my mum really questioned it.

I do remember getting very frustrated as a child, thinking when I was an adult I would stand up to him (my stepfather) and not let him treat us that way.

As an adult I have an almost pathological aversion to being controlled... by anyone. It took a while to accept the boss/subordinate relationship at work, I just about let my boss tell me what to do but thats probably it. Everyone else .. it has to be persuasion/influence.

My relationship with my partner is very anti-control on both sides. Neither of us tells the other what to do ,sometimes that means we do our own thing. I may wear the trousers sometimes in terms of decision making but I always try and take what he wants into consideration, if he doesn't agree with a decision we won't do it although he's quite passive and usually lets me decide what to do.

Anyway I just wanted to give some of my background as some people seem hacked off with the idea that I am saying those in an abusive relationship can ultimately choose to leave, although I am not for one minute saying it is an easy choice particualry when kids are involved.

As for my friend, she has left him.. but keeps going back. She's actually in quite a good position in a sense as she has the kind of work where she can get a contract abroad, accomodation and flights paid for (TEFL teacher) so it would be easy for her to just leave the country without telling him. IF she wanted to/had the strength to. But she keeps going back.

I'm not sure u can have a debate but as an outsider in my sisters situation I do feel frustrated with her as she's been with him 5 years and the shit and abuse she puts up with is horrendous I just want to shake her as do her friends. My dad 83 is totally taken in by him which is also frustrating so then becomes annoying. But because I've been in the situation I know how hard it is! However I did make a choice to leave after trying to change things too many times. It was scary, emotionally draining and I felt sick all the time. I did it but once things settled down and I started to relax I had a breakdown then and ended up son anti depressants.. It was worth it though I'm in a very loving relationship now lovely house etc but it wasn't easy !!!

Sure it's a "choice", but remember that people can only act based on the knowledge and capacities that they have at the time.

So if anyone subconsciously believes that they are wrong and others are right, or that they are powerless, or that they deserve poor treatment because they are bad and wrong, or that they are responsible for others' feelings and behaviour, or that they need to win approval from others, then that "choice" doesn't seem to exist at all for them.

And I think that there's a lot of that going on in abusive relationships. It's not a dynamic that anyone would consciously choose or want for themselves, but there may be many hidden psychological factors in play. And those can be very powerful.

By all means invite anyone being abused to see that they have a choice to walk away. But don't berate them for not seeing that that choice is within their grasp.

That's a good way of explaining it Ricecrispietreats.

All I know is if someone even so much as belittled me once, hit me, verbally or financially abused me I'd be gone the first time it happened. The OP has phrased things badly but I do sometimes wonder how people let things go beyond the first incident.

I think a lot of it has to do with self worth on a deep level, salt lake city. If you don't believe you are worth more than that....

I think we all think that though saltlakecity, trouble is it doesn't happen like that, mine didn't hit me till the very end , it was all emotional abuse till then , I left the first time I sniffed something, but I went back more fool me, but these people are experts at manipulating, and effecting your self worth ! You always think u would act differently than u do believe me!

Stillawake has it right.

I think the thing is that abusers seek ( could be unconsciously) out victims that are vunerable in some way.

This could be from anything, an abusive family background ( have low exspectations), are poor, have kids, poor health, MH issues, cultural. You name it, anything you can think of.

The abuse is insidious salt that's how people get trapped in it.
I wonder how you can wonder at it tbh, there is so much information out there if you were really interested.
And knowledge of how these relationships develop will offer better protection then a general feeling of 'well, it wouldn't happen to ME '
Domestic abuse covers all classes, financial strata's, races, religions, educational levels etc.

Actually creative some will target someone who is not in any 'vulnerable' category. They will target someone because of their fantastic qualities and place them on a pedestal. And then they will seek to destroy them.

Something like gaslighting can make you second guess everything, no longer trust your own judgement and fear that there is indeed something 'wrong' with you.
There isn't, but it's funny horrifying how many would seemingly be happy to support that very notion.
No wonder so many people are indeed trapped.

In January this year new legislation came into force re EA.
They are victims of abuse.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35192256

That's the case sometimes creativethinking yes but not always. I guess I was seen as vulnerable as I was a single mum with no family support, but not because I was from a bad family or background or lackig in money etc , my sister has her own house no mortgage very independent, a solicitor ffs. She still puts up with it ????!!

Hownottofuckup has it perfectly!!!

Hownot That is also true and agree with that as well.

I was once one of the most confident, outgoing and strong people going.
But my ex gradually and slowly and very cleverly chipped away at my confidence, which resulted in me becoming so insecure that by the time he upped his level of abuse and it became physical (again gradually getting worse) that I truly believed I deserved it.
It's too shameful to admit to anyone, you don't think anyone will believe you or that anyone else would ever want you.
It's a long and slow process and it wears you down.
Had I met my ex and he punched me in the face on day one I would have called the police and never seen him again but abusers don't work that way.

Salt it doesn't start off with "oi, you fucking stupid bitch"

It starts with something like this... say a man whose girlfriend has been asked to the cinema by a friend she hasn't seen in ages...

"Do you want a cup of tea?"
"Yes please."
"Who was on the phone?"
"Steph"
"Oh. Wow, you were only saying the other say you haven't spoken in a while. Is she ok?"
"Yeah she's fine. She was asking if I wanted to go to the cinema on Saturday afternoon. I know we usually see each other on Saturday so I told her I'd see what you were doing. She can't do Sunday"
"Oh ok. Well why don't you go? you haven't seen her in ages"
"Yeah, well if we're not doing anything... and you're sure"
"No, you should go. It's only one afternoon"
"Ok thanks. I will."
"oh... hang on... you said you'd come shopping with me to get some new kitchen accessories"
"Oh yes we did, I'll tell her I can't."
"Oh no, go, we can go shopping another day. It's just shopping."
"Are you sure? Ok. Thanks. I'll let her know"
"Oh actually, we can't go shopping another day. That offer ends this weekend. Argh no..."
"Ok no worries. I'll tell her".
"Why don't you go to the cinema on Sunday?"
"I can't. I've just told you that she's busy on Sunday."
"Oh that's right you did. Sorry. Well look if you really want to go... I'm sure I'll manage..."
"Do you really want me to come shopping with you?"
"Well you know what I'm like! I haven't got a clue! Without your input it's going to look like a student lives here!!"
"haha that's so true. Well look, I will come shopping with you. I'll go to the cinema with her another time."
"Are you sure? You don't have to..."
"Yeah, it's fine. Tbh I wasn't really that keen on watching the film anyway."
"Ok well thanks. I really appreciate it. You're great, you are."
"I know... ;-) "

Objective achieved and all the time he's presented himself as kind, considerate, a little hapless... the girlfriend is willingly making the sacrifice. He hasn't applied any overt pressure. Yet he has got exactly what he wanted.

That might be the first incident.

By the time the actual insults start flying, there is already a power dynamic created without the woman even seeing it coming.