Am I mad to have him back?

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Posted on someone else's thread last week, but now starting my own. Long story, but been married to DH for 28 years, both of us awkward buggers, driven, irritable, high-achievers. I've worked the whole of our marriage, and earned more than him the entire time, which he's hated although never admitted to hating. He's very bright, 1st from Oxford but not in 'useful' subject, I'm academically much weaker but in useful subject so now have gone much further than him. Three kids, all done fine at school, now left and at / headed for uni; two older (sons) are model wonderful boys, but (youngest) daughter just like her dad and very hard to handle / they argued continuously ever since she was about ten, and it caused huge rift between us re management of her.

He's had two affairs over past eight years, both of which I've been semi-aware of but never brought up with him. I wasn't happy about it, but didn't want to upset children by facing up to truth. We've got on OK, with just about the only arguments being about how to manage DD, and a gradually-increasing distance between us. No sex for the past four years, which I've missed. Last July he left us all to move in with OW - who he'd been having affair with for three years, and who (advisedly) is his 'soulmate'. Har har. This coincided with massive building project to allow my mother, 94 and with dementia, to move in with us. We'd been going to rent flat for kids to move into, but with DH moved out, we didn't bother and muddled through. But from the first he kept saying he'd come home at the end of the build, and he valued his relationship with his children, and although OW was his soulmate (har har) he still loved me and valued our relationship enough to try to rekindle it. I'm still stupidly in love with him (in most ways he's still the lovely boy I fell in love with at 23), so went along with this. His was my first boyfriend, I'm now 53 and a fattish greyish uglyish introverted person with zero charisma and very boring with it. I'm not wanting a lonely old age, and have little hope of ever meeting anyone else should DH not return.

The build finished early December, and he didn't come back. It was then going to be after Christmas, then it was going to be the end of january, then the end of February. It's still the end of February, i/e Monday. I'm still saying I want him home, but he's clearly getting cold feet, and is now suggesting this is a 'trial return' (presumably the evil twin of a trial separation).

I'm wanting him home - so do the children, although my DD has this difficult relationship with him, and (apparently) knew about his affairs but didn't feel able to tell me - but am beginning to think I've lost my marbles to even consider it. No matter how many people tell me to tell him to poke off, I can't do it. His lying and faithlessness seem not to bother me nearly so much as picturing a future without him. I behaved very badly indeed in the first ten years we spent together, and he stuck with me. I owe him, big-time, for that. This feels like my chance to stop feeling guilty about what I did and didn't do that first decade of our relationship; and I think I can be happy again with him, if he can only be happy again with me. It does happen sometimes, doesn't it? Views?

Sorry Op but there is a very sad and weird dynamic in your home. she loves her dad and wants him home. As do the boys is one of many examples.

This bloke sticks his knob into other women (repeatedly) while married to you and needs to be ostracised. Of course your kids love their DF, but that should not detract from the general principle, causing severe damage to their DM is not to be tolerated.

Once he started fuckng around he should have been held up as the twat he is. That means no longer a right to a place in the family home. That's because his actions broke the family

I could be wrong but you paint a picture of 4 people waiting forlornly for him to return as the hero. Weird

goddessofsmallthings it's pretty complicated, and the more so because of where we live / where the OW lives. No, he won't be seeing her. We've 'agreed' a month minimum for if he returns. I agree, there's still huge doubt as to whether he will - and a part of me now hopes that he won't in fact return tomorrow, because that would be it finished and I could stop agonising. He's had 'reasons' (his reasons this is) for not returning before now, but has run out of excuses. Footle no haven't met the OW, although I wanted to, early on. You think it would help? I've resisted the temptation, and am so bad with the interpersonal skills bit am not at all sure what any meeting would be like. BeaufortBelle I am partly responsible for DH's failure to have a brilliant career. He followed me to our current remote location, and has suffered from that because of lack of opportunities locally in his field. He's never complained directly about that, but his working away from home was never an option until quite recently when the DC have been more self-sufficient and needed less direct care. Now he has been (working away), and it's conveniently facilitated this affair with OW who lives some distance away.

You are all right, I know this. But working myself up to deal the death-blow to a 28-year marriage is just so f*ing difficult. Which is why I've been waiting for him to do it somehow. Maybe he will, by not returning tomorrow. If that happens, I will be seeing a lawyer, early. I'm most concerned about whether he might have some right to my pension - his own will be pretty much minimal. The rest of the assets will be a 50/50 split, and if the house appreciates in the years before we sell (for whatever reason) I see his continuing to pay the mortgage as still entitling him to a half share at sale.

Of course he has a right to your marital assets (your pension) in simple terms 50% of what you have paid in during his "roaming years" effectively went straight into his half. Even while shacked up with the OW you were paying for him.

How on earth are you responsible for stopping him having a brilliant career? If it hadn't suited him he wouldn't have done it. If he'd wanted a brilliant career he cd have had a studio Mon-Friday and his income could have funded live in childcare for him. Stop being made to feel guilty about the vjpices he has been able to make because you have facilitated his lifestyle. I'm also not convinced he's entitled to half.

I'm also not convinced he's entitled to 50% of your pension, more especially as he's got his own to look forward to.

Play on whatever guilt he may be feeling, or tell him you're going to divorce him for adultery and put a price on agreeing not to name his soulmate the ow as co-respondent.

With regard to the house, although the dc are grown they appear to be living at home and it may be advisable to negotiate buying him out providing you've got sufficient funds left over from your long delayed makeover

Take heart - you will feel better for losing lbs as being overweight is unhealthy, a good haircut & colour can knock years off your age, and botox is tres affordable these days. Try the 5:2 fast diet and check out the Style & Beauty board for make up/skin care products and tips on how to use them and the various threads on how to look classy on an eBay budget. Get your dd on board and let her 'manage' you for a change.

What example are you setting for your daughter by allowing him to walk over you?

What would you say to your daughter in the future if her DH had affairs and she wanted to take him back for a 3rd/4th time? Would you encourage her to live "her monster"

This is very pathetic.

Your "husband" ( excuse the quotes, but he's not what we usually describe thus ) is manipulating a cast of characters, whether by design or by default. You have no idea what he says to the OW about the situation, how he describes you, the children, what any of you want for the future. You may meet her and feel that if she's his soul mate, he isn't who you thought he was. Don't accept his view of her - see what you think and what she has to say. Open up his complicated little world and let some light and air in there. Nothing to do with your interpersonal skills, and it's not for him to prevent your meeting.

He doesn't know if it will work out with the OW?

Well one way to make sure it doesn't is to tell her you are moving back with the ex Mrs and will be going NC for a month. Any self respecting woman (OW or not) would say on your bike mate and stay there.

He hasn't told her because he doesn't want to lose her or he is just stringing you along for some reason hence the procrastinating about moving in on previous dates and not doing so.

You deserve way better than this second hand non relationship.

And by the way he ended your marriage as you know it years ago when he broke his vows and shagged other women.

He's playing you like a bloody violin. Still paying half of the mortgage to maintain his half-share in the family home and with an eye on a share of your pension, too, I daresay.

That's not to mention his disgusting betrayal of you. More than once, so it can't be written off as some tempting madness he was powerless to resist.

He's cynically playing with you. All this talk of "taking his equity" once your mother has died is proof of his long-term intentions. He doesn't give a fuck about you and hasn't for a very long time. He'll do whatever suits his purposes, and that's pleasing himself. You're just collateral damage.

"He is completely unable to work out his own feelings".

You are wrong about that. He knows exactly what he wants and how he feels. He wants the convenience of family life when it suits him and another woman on the side to shag. He wants both. His actions show that very clearly. The hurt that it causes you and the children does not register with him.

He will never make a decision between you and his lover. He is waiting for one of you to resolve it for him - I suspect that deep down he is angry with each of you for not resolving this situation for him. The only time that the situation will change is if his lover boots him out (in which case he will return to you and then look for another woman to shag), or if you boot him out. Then he'll move in with the other woman. He is just waiting for one of you to take action. I suspect that he doesn't really mind which woman he lives with.

Dear OP, like you, I am 53 and have been through some pretty rubbish relationship stuff. I have 2 grown up children and am also carer for my mum. What I want to say to you is to prioritise yourself more. I am dating, have spent money on getting my teeth done, have had Botox and get my hair done every 6 weeks. I go to the gym, try different classes - Pilates is great - and have enrolled on an evening class. This is our one time on this earth and we deserve to make the most of it and be happy! Get some new clothes and feel good because you are worth it. Still do this if he comes back both for your own self esteem and to demonstrate to your family and the world that you are a happy and independent woman. Value yourself and others will too! Take care and best of luck xxx

And take your daughter for a spa day!

Kidnapped 'He will never make a decision between you and his lover. He is waiting for one of you to resolve it for him'.

Yes yes yes. And I've known that all along, but haven't had the courage to do it. Perhaps now I will have, given the complete consistency of the views I've got on here. All it'll take is one phone-call telling him not to come back. Can I do it? Right this moment, I don't know. I've got to make lunch for DM, and then a full afternoon of events, and I know that inertia will no longer serve me well. So by the end of today, I need to have decided to do it. Will let you all know! And many thanks for your honest straight-talking which I've certainly needed at this point.

When you pick up the phone to make that call, imagine us all standing behind you, all on your side, waving Pom Poms,

I'm only in my 30s so I don't want you to think I'm patronising you but come on don't give him the shit off your shoe.
He does not sound very nice.
Work on yourself.
Get yourself a makeover.
Get your hair done,treat yourself to some nice clothes etc.
You don't need him to run your low self esteem any further down.
There's plenty of men who you can grow old with out there ..make yourself happy.

Is he still in a relationship with the OW? Sorry but it's no clear to me.

This has car crash all over it op don't let him hurt you anymore his behaviour is disgusting!! You should show your daughter it is not behaviour you (or she in time) should tolerate and tell him to stay away!

But working myself up to deal the death-blow to a 28-year marriage is just so f*ing difficult. Which is why I've been waiting for him to do it somehow. Maybe he will, by not returning tomorrow. This is what I don't understand... Why you would be waiting for him to bring an end to your marriage? Doesn't that make you feel like a sitting duck? Doesn't it bother you that he will be the one with the power to decide your future? Because by waiting for him to do the honours, you are saying you'll go along with whatever suits him. Wouldn't you rather decide your own future?

I think it could be far lonelier living with a man who isn't totally committed to you than living alone.

Never prioritise someone for whom you are only an option.

If he's been living away from you and with ow for some time now, he has already administered the 'death-blow' to your marriage. You would just be saying No, you can't change your mind and come back, because that is messing me about and you've already done me enough harm thanks very much - you made your choice when you have yourself permission to do what you've done, now I'm making mine.

It might do him good to not get what he wants for once.

You appear to have completely infantilised your husband to the point where you've convinced yourself that it's OK for him to fuck someone else, because he can't control himself as he is 'weak'. Do you honestly believe that? He has described this woman as his soulmate. So what does that make you?

You asked for views, and I think this 'weak' man is waiting for your mother to die so he can divorce you at that point and take half of your inheritance as well as half of the rest of your estate. He's no fool. He's convinced you to take responsibility for all his failings over the years. But you continue to let him and that is your failing.

Ah I see it's not his fault. It's yours. He isn't an adult, he is your fourth child.

So you sit and agonise until he finishes it?

In a few years time when your mum has passed and the kids are old enough that he can demand the house is sold or you buy him out. And half your inheritance as well.

Not worried about money or inheritance except for my pension. My DM has no assets now, by contrast DH's elderly DF is loaded & just him and my SiL to inherit. He (FiL) lives with my SiL. Will get advice on money side of things soonest. Have decided to have full & frank discussion with kids tonight, as have suspicions that they're only saying they want him home because they think it's what I want. If that's true, that's enough - with everything everyone else has said - for me to have zero doubts about what I should do, which is to tell him to f* off and stay with his precious OW.

Hi OP. I know the thread has moved on quite a bit since you posted this, but I just wanted to respond to it:

"My own former bad behaviour wasn't directly to do with the relationship, but stemmed from a severe untreated mental health issue that I still can't admit to anyone
because I'm so horrified by what I did back then (nothing criminal, hastens to add). Happily I got over it before I had the children, and it hasn't recurred, although I wonder if it might, and perhaps that's part of what's kept me in a substandard marriage for the past years."

I think this could be the crux of the issue. My theory is that your mental health problems, and your residual shame about them, are still holding you back. I wonder if you really did "get over it" completely.

I understand that there is stigma around mental illness, and you may not be proud of your behaviour, but shame is part of the problem. It's vitally important that you address this and forgive yourself.

Maybe it took you some time to seek help for your problems, but it sounds like you did seek help in the end? (You must have done if you feel that you moved past them?)

Was your husband supportive at the time? Obviously it was up to him to "fix" or "save" you - you had to do that yourself - but a good husband would usually support his wife through emotionally difficult experiences like mental illness.

I'm concerned that you're still blaming yourself, making excuses for your husband and waiting for others to make decisions for you (first it seemed that your husband was going to have the final say about whether you should end the marriage - now it seems your children will). All this suggests to me that you still need to work on your mental health, and certainly your self esteem.

I was blunt in my first post when I told you to find your self respect. But I realise it's much easier said than done. And I'd love to hear you being kinder to yourself. I think that might start with some counselling.

Nothing helpful to add but wanted to say , OP that you sound like a really fab woman. You are clearly very clever and funny.

Please don't put your children in the position where they feel they were to blame for the end of the marriage. Of course they want him back, he's their dad. It's your job to teach them that doesn't excuse all behaviour. And btw they, like you, deserve better than a "trial return".

You need to own this decision or you won't be able to stick to it.

Oh god, please don't ask your kids. It's your marriage, and they are not responsible for that.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone on here as passive as you.

You said earlier that he's run out of excuses for not coming back- can you not see how wrong that is? He is showing you who he is, please please listen. You won't ever have your happy ending with this man.

What a dreadful thing to do to your children.....to put them in a position to decide about YOUR marriage.