Am I mad to have him back?

[decomm18]

Posted on someone else's thread last week, but now starting my own. Long story, but been married to DH for 28 years, both of us awkward buggers, driven, irritable, high-achievers. I've worked the whole of our marriage, and earned more than him the entire time, which he's hated although never admitted to hating. He's very bright, 1st from Oxford but not in 'useful' subject, I'm academically much weaker but in useful subject so now have gone much further than him. Three kids, all done fine at school, now left and at / headed for uni; two older (sons) are model wonderful boys, but (youngest) daughter just like her dad and very hard to handle / they argued continuously ever since she was about ten, and it caused huge rift between us re management of her.

He's had two affairs over past eight years, both of which I've been semi-aware of but never brought up with him. I wasn't happy about it, but didn't want to upset children by facing up to truth. We've got on OK, with just about the only arguments being about how to manage DD, and a gradually-increasing distance between us. No sex for the past four years, which I've missed. Last July he left us all to move in with OW - who he'd been having affair with for three years, and who (advisedly) is his 'soulmate'. Har har. This coincided with massive building project to allow my mother, 94 and with dementia, to move in with us. We'd been going to rent flat for kids to move into, but with DH moved out, we didn't bother and muddled through. But from the first he kept saying he'd come home at the end of the build, and he valued his relationship with his children, and although OW was his soulmate (har har) he still loved me and valued our relationship enough to try to rekindle it. I'm still stupidly in love with him (in most ways he's still the lovely boy I fell in love with at 23), so went along with this. His was my first boyfriend, I'm now 53 and a fattish greyish uglyish introverted person with zero charisma and very boring with it. I'm not wanting a lonely old age, and have little hope of ever meeting anyone else should DH not return.

The build finished early December, and he didn't come back. It was then going to be after Christmas, then it was going to be the end of january, then the end of February. It's still the end of February, i/e Monday. I'm still saying I want him home, but he's clearly getting cold feet, and is now suggesting this is a 'trial return' (presumably the evil twin of a trial separation).

I'm wanting him home - so do the children, although my DD has this difficult relationship with him, and (apparently) knew about his affairs but didn't feel able to tell me - but am beginning to think I've lost my marbles to even consider it. No matter how many people tell me to tell him to poke off, I can't do it. His lying and faithlessness seem not to bother me nearly so much as picturing a future without him. I behaved very badly indeed in the first ten years we spent together, and he stuck with me. I owe him, big-time, for that. This feels like my chance to stop feeling guilty about what I did and didn't do that first decade of our relationship; and I think I can be happy again with him, if he can only be happy again with me. It does happen sometimes, doesn't it? Views?

Decomm, these are my thoughts. Firstly well done for surviving what sounds like a pretty shitty 28 years of marriage. Well done for holding it together, nailing it in your career and raising three great kids. Well done for looking after your mum on top of all this, give yourself a bloody big pat on the back.
In terms of your relationship with your husband, I can see why sometimes being with someone, anyone, sounds more seductive than being on your own, particularly when your self esteem has taken a battering but really the omens don't look good on this one.
Two affairs that you know of ,plus he has left you and the kids once already. I am intrigued as to his reasons for wanting to come back for this "trial return" if by his own admission he left to be with his soul mate...
If the untreated mental health issue is the main reason foir your low self esteem then you really do need to address that in order to be able to forgive yourself and move on. The MIND website is very informative, have a look on there as a first step. Mental illness is nothing to be ashamed of , so please be kind to yourself,stop beating yourself up over that and try and get some help.
Only you can decide whether your relationship is salvageable.I hope the trial return works out for you. However you split for a reason and if those reasons aren't resolved and behaviours don't change then you are on a hiding to nothing. Is his affair with the other woman over or is he expecting you to put up and shut up? Are you prepared to do that? I hope not because that is supremely corrosive to the soul.
You deserve much better. Good luck x

I don't think this man is worthy of you. He is delaying perhaps wanting to keep the doors open with the other woman and you. You are the achiever of the household he is the hanger on. You have proved that you are in no need of him. You have your useful degree, earned a good income from that, produced and brought up 3 DCs, you are caring for your DM and still earning. What exactly do you think you will get from this man? If he was to come back, he could waltz off in another 5 years and you will be 58 by then and in need of more clothes and hairdos. Likely he will cause plenty of the grey hairs. Honestly you are his support not the other way round. Don't let him drag you back into his web of "precious me". He is a user and likely DD knows it which is why she is that bit more difficult.
Take care of you and the DCs and the DM. You don't need this man

My advice would be to carry on loving your DH as much as you want, but from a safe distance.

After 28 years together (first 10 marred by a mental issue you had, last 8 marred by his affairs), how much longer do you want to keep trying? I know that probably sounds very harsh and I don't mean to be. However, the fact is neither of you has been happy for most of that time. He does not sound enthusiastic about coming back and you sound as though you want him back in what you yourself call 'a sub-standard marriage' more from fear of having no alternative than on his own merits.

Please don't assume you are as unattractive to others as you apparently are to yourself. With your DH gone, you could do whatever you wanted to change. I suspect that some of what you say ("53 and a fattish greyish uglyish introverted person with zero charisma and very boring with it") might have been absorbed from your DH. If he resents your greater career success, does he need to be a star in the relationship with you in his shadow and grateful for his continuing attentions?

What if you blossom without him? I think staying in a marriage like this will get harder as you get older. Much, much harder than being on your own, but with options.

You're holding on to a terrible relationship for fear of being alone. It's not unusual, lots of us have done it. But you need to bite the bullet and accept that it will be painful but that it needs to happen. getting over an ex is hard but totally possible and you will be much happier on the other side.

Brilliant posts by AnotherEmma. If you don't value yourself enough, then how about focusing on how it all looks to your daughter, and what example you are setting her? Instead of spending so much energy focusing on whether to have him back or not, you need to put that energy into yourself and your future and what else can make you happy. I'm sorry to be blunt, but he will never be happy with just you again; he enjoys the drama and intensity of having multiple women fighting over him, and the agony and intrigue of it all. You say you missed the sex; will he ever provide that fulfilment again? I doubt it.

OP, I understand where you are coming from. As children leave the home, life in a couple becomes more about companionship, and someone you've spent so long with is likely to be a good companion.

This board is full of advice to posters to leave their partner for whatever misdeed has been described. Sometimes it feels like an audience watching gladiators, calling for blood. Only you and he can determine whether it can work again. The one thing you need to do is put a time limit on that decision period, otherwise you risk drifting on in limbo.

I do take issue with a couple of points in the posts above. Firstly, whether you decide to take him back or not has nothing to do with self-respect. Criticising someone for taking back an unfaithful partner is horrible and plain wrong - the only blame should attach entirely to the cheating party.

And secondly, your self-description sounds very negative and I wonder whether you might benefit from some ADs. Obviously I have idea how accurate your physical description of yourself is, but the part about zero charisma is plainly wrong. Your post oozes insight and interest.

I'm sure it will work out for you one way or the other. Just don't leave the decision entirely to your husband.

Please think about what all of this is doing to your kids, the example you're setting.

You can't do anything about the fact that their dad is a weak unfaithful shit, but you can certainly do something about the fact that you are currently behaving like a pathetic, desperate doormat. How confusing, disappointing and desperately sad this must be for them.

If you were watching this unfold, if this was happening to your daughter, what would your advice be?

It's not too late to grow a backbone and show them how it's done.

In old age you need to be sitting across the table from someone who loves and respects you, having shared a lifetime of memories and a few bumps along the way. Not someone who clearly thinks nothing of you, but returns out of desperation and duty.

Honestly, no relationship is better than this one. You sound like you used to be a strong, amazing woman. You've achieved so much, raised children, succeeded at work and worked hard at your marriage. You are better than him, and better than this.

OP I echo the thoughts of everyone else with regards to your DH.

On the point of worrying about being single forever I too live in the back of beyond and thought I would be single forever.

What you'll find after the initial hurt and upset when you realise your marriage is over is that you develop new interests, make new friends and generally start doing things for yourself and having a good time doing the things you want to do. Your self esteem will improve immensely.

At some point you will realise that you aren't particularly fussed about finding a man anyway. And then, just when you've really got your life and yourself together some bloke will come along when you're least expecting it and really put a spanner in the works because that's how life goes.

Hi Decomm. I was on the other thread you posted on & I'm glad to see you've started your own now .

As you might remember, I've recently discovered my husband of 20 years has been having an EA with a work colleague - which ended as soon as I found the messages.

I understand your fears of being alone, not wanting to be without him after all these years & still loving him even though he's treated you appallingly - because I'm going through the same emotions.

The thing that I couldn't get past in your situation though is that he is living with his OW, consistently fails to leave her & even describes her as his "soulmate" .

People can make mistakes, yes. But he seems to have already made his decision doesn't he? If he really truly wanted to be with you he'd have come back at the first invitation surely?

Sadly there is no magical combination of words that we can say to trigger an epiphany. I wish there were.

I do want to point out that you haven't tried being single yet. You've tried being married and you know what that is like. You've tried being in this horrible limbo of waiting for him to want you, and you know what that is like.

You haven't tried letting go and being single.

If you want to see whatever-it-was-you-did-in-your-20s as deserving of punishment (and I really doubt that still stands - even if you snorted cocaine off Peter Stringfellows chest, then rode him sidesaddle on the table dh was trying to have a quiet supper on, then that "crime" is long past and forgiven) then see it as done. You were bad in the past, he was bad now. Finished. Ended.

Until you've tried being single I don't think you can make a fair comparison.

Give yourself that chance. Not to win him back, but for you to live again. See who you can be when you're not held back by the unconscious adjustments you make for him.

He'll still be hanging around trying to pull your chains whatever you do. He's not going anywhere.

Stop judging your value by him. You'll never find yours that way.

So he is coming back to you even though the OW is his soul mate?

Is he going to continue seeing her and living with you.

You are obviously in a surly bad place to be even considering this, so I don't want to be too harsh.

But please don't do this.

So it's a bit of an anti-return consensus overnight, which I kind of expected having observed these boards for a short time. If only it were so straightforward, though. He honestly isn't a villain, even if he's unfaithful. He's worked hard all our marriage and contributed to the family income throughout - not his fault at all that he's unable to earn as much as I am. He's been hugely supportive of my career and helped throughout with the house and with childcare - I couldn't have gone so far without him. I love him because of his positive characteristics, which are many and compelling, and although our marriage hasn't been perfect, it's been pretty damn good most of the time - and which marriage is perfect? I've been too absorbed in the DCs, my increasingly needy mother, and my work, and have neglected him. So, I'm not perfect either. My self-esteem is compartmentalised. I know I'm good at my work, and appreciated by my employer and colleagues. I know I'm a very good daughter, and I've always thought I was a good mother, although I'm aware that now I'm not being a good role-model for confident independence. I have however spun it to the children that I don't need him really (which I don't actually) but am choosing to want him back. I'm not behaving like a lovesick teenager at all in RL, and have coped without tears or neediness through a hellish building-project. In reality I am in control on this one. I can tell him not to come back, and he won't, and we'll go our separate ways. He owns half the house, but has said that he'll wait until my mother dies to take his equity out, and I'd want to sell then anyway, so that won't be an issue. In the meantime, he'll go on paying half of the mortgage.

But I'm terribly introverted and find it hard to make new friends, and I can't imagine ever having the courage to sleep with what would be only the second man ever. A future without DH seems hugely risky, whereas staying with him is 'the devil I know'. If he comes back, things will have to change between us, obviously - and that's been what our counselling has focussed on. I'm up for changing, and he's said he is, too.

Compared to many - even most - betrayed wives, I am hugely fortunate, and I'm aware of this. Despite the unanimity that I shouldn't stand for this trial return, I'm not sure I'm yet able to be the one to end our long relationship. I've kept hoping, the last seven months, that he'd do something so outrageously bad that my stupid devotion would flip over into hate - and he hasn't. Perhaps a month of realising that we're no longer good together will finally supply a good reason for me to end it.

So living with the other woman, his soulmate, isn't outrageously bad? Really?

What would qualify as outrageously bad?

The month trial will only be an opportunity for him to leave again. Let's face it, with everything he's done if you take him back there's no way you will be the one to end things in a month.

You're right though we don't know the full story as the good times of the relationship but it seems like you have becoming emotionless to the affairs and the fact he's with another woman now.

I hope you find the strength to see clearly. Focus on yourself, you are worth much more than this X

So he is coming back but won't take the equity until your mother passes.

That's sounds like he isn't coming back for good then?

Op what you have described is a husband. He should be supportive of your career. He should be doing his fair share of child care.

These are the some of the minimum things I would expect of dh.

I find cheating disgusting, tbh. But I don't that, by cheating you are entirely a bad person. No one is all good or all bad.

But honestly in this situation the way he has treated you, would out weigh what 'good' he has done.

He has been a decent husband and father. But then done something awful and treated you like crap that is lucky to have him.

But your mind is made up. Good luck

I dont understand where the ow his soulmate is going to be if/when he moves back in with you. Is she on trial too?

What about your kids? Being dragged along in the Drama Llama-ing of two self absorbed adults who seem to only be focused on their own dysfunctional relationship. This months trial will be great for them won't it, especially if he moves out again at the end of it. What a ridiculous carry on.

My instinct is telling me there is more going on with your dd than you realise. I would stop thinking about him for a moment and have a very candid discussion with your dd.

She sounds like she was a very switched on child and as you know picked up on the infidelity whilst your boys remained blissfully unaware. Her confrontational behaviour may well have been a response to what was going on in the family home. She may have been angry and hurt but unable to express it and felt like she had to collude on the secret of his affairs.

These feelings of guilt, anger and hurt at his betrayal to you and thus her and her family will have been very hard for a young child to process. All alone and without support because she was supposed to keep it all secret. Maybe you should view her as intelligent, self sufficient and articulate rather than 'difficult'.

If you allow yourself to go there and think about what she may have been feeling all these years, you might just start getting angry on her behalf enough to tell him not to come back. You might realise that alongside your wonderful sons you have a gem of a daughter who has had your back since she was very little.

Talk to her. Ask her what she feels. Tell her she can be as open as she likes, because you will not judge her - and don't judge her.

I think he's treating both you and his 'soul mate' abysmally and I'm terribly suspicious of anyone who apparently is willing to mess around two women he allegedly loves. What exactly does 'love' mean to him?

And please please don't beat yourself up for being unwell. You have dealt with it, you have got through it and you've made a family and a career in spite of that devil brain weasel. You've done well. You shouldn't be trying to punish yourself for it now, especially after more than a decade later. You deserve applause for the things you've achieved.

I can understand why you would want to do this. But does he want it? tbh it sounds as though he doesn't really want to come back

He is a villan.

He had allowed your poor DD to be treated as the hard to deal with kid since the age of 10 because the poor child had to deal with the knowledge of his affairs.

He (the adult) has argued with her and quite frankly treated her like shit. He has allowed you to see her as the difficult one when most of that will be due to what he has done and her immature ability to deal with it.

You may have treated her different with better knowledge.

Funny that he has only done this with his female child and the one who knew what a lying sack of deceitful shit he was.

If OW is his soul mate he ain't coming back anytime soon. You are just back up.

Dust off your self respect and dignity and take away his open return ticket.

Sorry to be blunt but you are just a doormat. He is using you and you are allowing it.

Get some self respect and kick his sorry arse into next week and get rid.

Seriously, open your eyes. This is the saddest thread I've read for a while.

He's a tosser

So it's a trial reconciliation for you and a trial separation for the ow. Who does he think he is? You should both tell him where to go.