Am I mad to have him back?

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Posted on someone else's thread last week, but now starting my own. Long story, but been married to DH for 28 years, both of us awkward buggers, driven, irritable, high-achievers. I've worked the whole of our marriage, and earned more than him the entire time, which he's hated although never admitted to hating. He's very bright, 1st from Oxford but not in 'useful' subject, I'm academically much weaker but in useful subject so now have gone much further than him. Three kids, all done fine at school, now left and at / headed for uni; two older (sons) are model wonderful boys, but (youngest) daughter just like her dad and very hard to handle / they argued continuously ever since she was about ten, and it caused huge rift between us re management of her.

He's had two affairs over past eight years, both of which I've been semi-aware of but never brought up with him. I wasn't happy about it, but didn't want to upset children by facing up to truth. We've got on OK, with just about the only arguments being about how to manage DD, and a gradually-increasing distance between us. No sex for the past four years, which I've missed. Last July he left us all to move in with OW - who he'd been having affair with for three years, and who (advisedly) is his 'soulmate'. Har har. This coincided with massive building project to allow my mother, 94 and with dementia, to move in with us. We'd been going to rent flat for kids to move into, but with DH moved out, we didn't bother and muddled through. But from the first he kept saying he'd come home at the end of the build, and he valued his relationship with his children, and although OW was his soulmate (har har) he still loved me and valued our relationship enough to try to rekindle it. I'm still stupidly in love with him (in most ways he's still the lovely boy I fell in love with at 23), so went along with this. His was my first boyfriend, I'm now 53 and a fattish greyish uglyish introverted person with zero charisma and very boring with it. I'm not wanting a lonely old age, and have little hope of ever meeting anyone else should DH not return.

The build finished early December, and he didn't come back. It was then going to be after Christmas, then it was going to be the end of january, then the end of February. It's still the end of February, i/e Monday. I'm still saying I want him home, but he's clearly getting cold feet, and is now suggesting this is a 'trial return' (presumably the evil twin of a trial separation).

I'm wanting him home - so do the children, although my DD has this difficult relationship with him, and (apparently) knew about his affairs but didn't feel able to tell me - but am beginning to think I've lost my marbles to even consider it. No matter how many people tell me to tell him to poke off, I can't do it. His lying and faithlessness seem not to bother me nearly so much as picturing a future without him. I behaved very badly indeed in the first ten years we spent together, and he stuck with me. I owe him, big-time, for that. This feels like my chance to stop feeling guilty about what I did and didn't do that first decade of our relationship; and I think I can be happy again with him, if he can only be happy again with me. It does happen sometimes, doesn't it? Views?

You are nuts!

Allowing him to come back for a 'trial return' is an outrageously weak negotiating position. You will have an entire month of doing the pick me dance, whilst he holds all the power. Meantime the OW is presumably also doing a pick me dance - what a great ego trip for him.

Let's say he does return. And years pass and now you're 63. You've turned a blind eye to a few more affairs for the sake of keeping the marriage going. And he meets someone who isn't prepared to share him. He leaves you permanently. You know this is going to happen at some point because that's who he is. Do you want to start building your new life at 63 or 73?

Do you think it's a coincidence he moved out when the building work started? He's no experience of living with your mother, I assume? I can't see him tolerating living with someone very elderly and with dementia, and I wonder if he's just stringing you along to avoid having to say that.

It sounds as if you would be better putting your energies into getting treatment for your mental health issues, building esteem and independence. If you see this guy as a crutch to get you through your retirement he is a weak choice.

I can't fathom how two women are letting him treat them like this.

Of course there is always the chance the OW doesn't know he is planning on going back to the family home.

Which would explain why he keeps delaying it

You are mad. What do you need him for exactly? Do you enjoy being humiliated?
Do you want your children to continue to not be able to have any respect for you because you are not being a role model you are being a walk over

Try online dating and get out there and meet a new guy of your own.

The best revenge on scumbags like your husband is to lead a happy life without them

Have some dignity woman and don't take him back or ever beg him for anything again

Ive not read all the posts, but I wanted to respond. When I find out about my exH's affair I wanted him back. I wanted him back for months. For him to realise the error of his ways. I thought he was still my soul mate and key to happiness. He consumed my every thought. I thought that at my age id never feel love again - let alone be desired again (we had no sexual relationship when together).

One day I did something totally out of character on a night out, started chatting to a man that I thought was nice. Things led from there and we have a brief relationship. I know we don't need men to make us feel validated, but it kind of was the kick up the ass that I actually am a female who a man could be attracted to. This led to me having counselling. This counselling was a godsend and helped tremendously - changing me completely. Now fast forward and I'm here, happier than I have ever been, planning a future with someone who loves me more than my ex did.

So, basically I get where your heads at, but please realise you are worth so much more than this. Please seek counselling, and take steps in the right direction of getting your head in order.

Wow this is so sad....
Please dig deep and find some self respect. You might find your daughter thinks more of you if you do.
You are still young.... say no more and rebuild.
I bet you Don't though and he fucks off again in six months leaving you heart broken and wondering what you have done. Have you spoken to the ow? As it's all very civilised what does she think?
I despair of some self proclaimed 'well educated' women. Goes to show what they Don't teach at Oxford ...

Oh, so much good and thought-provoking advice, I don't know where to start. ricketytickety you (and the earlier poster) are so right. My DD is all of the things you describe - very bright, and loving and now very happy to confide her hurt and resentment that she's stored up the past years. I've tried to get her to see a counsellor to discuss these issues, but she's dismissive - and despite it all, she loves her dad and wants him home. As do the boys. Tabsicle you're right too. He is treating us both appallingly, all in an effort to keep his options open for as long as possible. He appears, whenever we talk about this (which believe me we've done hours and hours of, since last July) to be completely unable to work out his own feelings. I'm trying not to be judgemental about the OW, but honestly I don't care even slightly about her or what her future is. He's a good and devoted father, has had his own issues from a horribly dysfunctional family background, and is emotionally disabled in many ways - possibly a bit autistic spectrum. Again, I refuse to demonise him, and I'm not so stupid that I'm blind to his faults, because I'm not. But I'm faulty too - and for me, his unfaithfulness is - marginally - outweighed by his positives. But it's very marginal indeed - and that's why I'm seeking opinion and advice.

Don't make excuses for him. That's pathetic.

Judge people by their actions not what they say.

If he loved you and cared about you he wouldn't treat you like this

He is acting like he doesn't give a shit about you or his family and has left you behind and doesn't even want to come back.

Have some dignity, please don't beg him and move on with your life

Have you talked to the other woman , just the two of you ? It's time you did.

So,right now he's lying in bed, next to, or fucking, his "soulmate"? But you think his behaviour isn't too bad. All the other stuff about his income etc is irrelevant, no one is suggesting you stay away because of that! He is showing you no respect, you are showing yourself no respect. Presumably he wants to move back in for convenience and to have you help with his mother. He isn't about to come back and be a great husband. You fear not being up to starting a sexual relationship with someone new, but he hasn't had sex with you for years anyway. So being with him means no chance of a healthy, caring relationship, versus the possibility of being single and respecting yourself, or maybe meeting someone new down the line.

You sound totally ground down. Would you consider counselling?

He is a good man because he 'helped' pay for HIS home and he 'helped' to look after his own children. I think myself a good aunty because I help look after my niece and nephew. If my DH only helped me looks after my child I would think him a failure as a father. This makes him a villain as he cant be arsed to pull his weight but he managed to find time to have affairs.

He has spent over ten years choosing to have affairs and choosing to treat you badly. This is not a one off mistake which he feels bad about. If he did, it would not have happened and continued. He has left you for his soul mate, he is very clear is telling you that he does not want to be with you. He might occasionally want you round for his convince but he does not want to be with you. He does not care at all about what you want. At the moment you are his other women. This makes him a a villain.

Don't think about the now. I want you to imagine your perfect life and your perfect partner. I am pretty sure your perfect partner would care about you and want to actually be with you. I would say this is not perfection but the very minimum of any relationship. You are right that no relationships are perfect, but it is far from prefect to just keep his dick in his pants. He did not even manage that. This makes him a villain.

He allowed your child to know about his continued affairs and put her in an awful position. No wonder they argue. This makes him a villain.

From the few things you have said, I could give you more example of why I think he is a villain but it is up to you decide you want to view him.

You say other people have had it worse. Is that the best judgement of what is good enough for you? You are an educated women so you know that just because somebody has something worse does not mean your experience is good. Out of all the thread on MN over the last few years this one is upsetting me the most. You are clearly an intelligent and successful women yet you think you are worth so little and have such a low opinion of yourself.

You deserve to treat yourself better.

Make a list of everything he has done

All the affairs and empty promises, then compare that with his so called good qualities

Maybe seeing it written down will make it sink in that this man does not love you or care about you and want to be with you

Be your own best friend and help yourself by leading a happy life without him

He is not a good devoted father.

Your DD has been put through hell mentally since she was 10 by this man. All for him to selfishly protect himself.

Of course she wants him back. He is her dad and she still loves him despite what he has done.

Now he has left she has finally been able to open up about it all.

She may say she wants him back how is that going to work?

Does she have to shut up and box up her hurt, anger and resentment over all those last few years so he can come back?

It is your job to protect her and support her and put her first.

Not some cheating twat who has openly told you OW is his soul mate so more to him than you ever will be. The woman who married him, had his DC and stood by him for 28 years.

What a sad thread.

Right down to you excusing his lack of financial success as him being more intelligent but in a less useful subject.

Even in that you've put him on his pedestal and put down your own achievement.

Financial success is not everything - but yours is also an indicator of career success.

Plenty of people read a "useful" subject and get nowhere.

You have achieved, because you've worked hard - all your achievement.

Cabrinha I don't feel sad, and don't feel sad for me. I feel very lucky and blessed. I'm not defined by my useless DH, even slightly. My self-esteem issues (which are all to do with appearance and my introversion and boringness) pre-date him - and he's never ever been critical of the way I look. Whatever happens, I'll be fine. My children and my work and my (very few) friends will get me through the losing of him, if that's what happens. I see this as a first-world problem that I need somehow to get through to whatever (better place) lies beyond this difficult phase of my life. At the moment, I'm not clear whether things will be better with him or without him. Everyone here is telling me that without a doubt things will be better without him, and you could all be right.

And actually I'm taking great comfort from what you're all saying. I have no experience of what divorce actually turns out like - I seem to be surrounded by people in long and (apparently) happy marriages, and my own parents were completely devoted for as long as my father lived. So for me, it's an unknown and scary place. You're all giving me a little confidence that I could get through it. And perhaps online dating would be the way to go - pull them in before they need to see the real me.

Your dd will want what she perceives as 'normal'. In essence, that is what you are craving too. But what we want and what we need are often two different things.

The counselling idea is good. But it must be something she is willing to do. Maybe you could go to relate together(you and your dd) and suggest to her that it would be a place where you could both talk with someone there to guide you. Because she may be afraid that counselling is all about someone changing her mind, when actually it's about someone guiding you to resolution. Have a look at relate and then tell her you have this idea and would she want to do it. Let her think about it. Might be a few months down the line it sinks in and she says she wants to do it.

Of course your road ahead is muddled. But once you take control of your life then you will see your way clearer. He is controlling you at the moment with his maybes and promises. It's like a carrot dangling. I wonder why he is doing this? Is he worried about divorcing because there may be a financial impact on him. You really need to think about why he would act so irrationally. Usually people aren't being irrational at all - there will be a reason that benefits him to give you this false hope. Sometimes people just can't face telling others it is over. The ow will have no idea he is still talking to you this way. You need to rethink this. It's a tactic he is using. Look at his actions rather than listening to his words. They tell you what you need to do.

You don't have to live out in the sticks. If you want to, move. Look at separation as a new lease of freedom. Make your decisions about you. Be good to yourself. Be kind to yourself. Take care of yourself. All else will follow.

Is he saying he is going to end things with ow as he wants to come back to you? I may have missed something here, but has the relationship with ow not worked out?Is he saying he'd prefer to be with you? Or is it that he'd prefer to live with his dcs?

In your shoes, I think I'd try a trial divorce first, rather than a trial reconciliation. I'd tell him that actually you're not ready for this. Then give yourself a few months of a really concerted effort to live well without him. Fake it til you make it.

Hairdo, hobbies, exercise, work, mother, DCs...get it all organised for yourself - get yourself the best single life you can. In order to be taking him back, I'd want him to be very very fucking keen indeed. Not this half-hearted maybe we'll try for a month nonsense. Perhaps if he sees how fabulous you are without him, he'll really want you back.

Also, does he realise what impact him coming back and then possibly fucking off again will have on you and the Dcs? He can't play around with you all like this.

Do you want a full life with him, a fulfilling marriage? Or do you see it more that you want him around whatever the cost?

ricketytickety it's clear to me that DH is (a) uncertain that things will work out with OW (b) worried about his long-term relationship with the DCs (c) still very fond of me - although crucially not enough to sever links with OW. He's being completely dishonest with her, as well. Writing all of this down, I understand very well everyone's reactions. He sounds like a callous monster, the way I've told it. But you're right, he's my callous monster and i do crave the normality of our previous life together, which, as I've said, was pretty good most of the time, even during the past few years where we had no physical relationship (which I put down to middle-age performance issues) and when I was 99% certain he was seeing someone else. The remoteness of my location is a genuine problem, and to move would mean leaving my current profession because all the other places I could work are equally remote. Life is so uncertain, and it's human to want to hold onto the things that are familiar and safe, even when, as you say it really isn't what you need.

I'm curious as to how this 'trial return' is going to work and how he's sold it to his 'soulmate'? Will they be having a 'trial separation' in order that he can have a try at returning to you? How long will the trial last before he makes his decision? Will he be returning to you fulltime, or will he get days/nights off to spend with his mistress?

How much of your wanting him back is due to you 'not wanting a lonely old age', and how much is due to you not wanting to bother with taking yourself in hand and giving your appearance a makeover to increase your chances of attracting a more worthy replacement for His LowHighness?

Can you not set your 10 years of 'bad behaviour' against his 8+ years of --roving cock syndrome- infidelity, call it even stevens, and end your farcical marriage?

In any event, I've got a feeling his cold feet will have become encased in a block of ice that prevents any movement, but should he appear at whatever hour is appointed for the second coming his trial return I doubt that he'll remain in situ for very long.

So he is still playing you both?

Seeing who does a better pick me dance?

Sorry to go on about it, but have you discussed the situation one to one with the other woman ? It could be very helpful to both of you.

OP, I have been through a similar story myself.

I forgave a number of times but in the end enough was enough. Making the decision to call it a day was the worst part of the whole process. Once the decision was made I felt a tremendous sense of empowerment.

Over the past year there have been good days and bad days. Days where I wanted him back so badly it physically hurt. Days where I thought my life was as good as over. And days where I felt excited for the future, and for all the possibilities, and just sort of basked in the feeling that I could do whatever I wanted. Over time the good days have increasingly outweighed the bad.

I promise you your life will be better. From the satisfaction you feel when you tell him he no longer has you as an option (fake it til you make it) to the pride you feel when you look your children in the eye.

A year later I have a lovely home, fantastic children, a few good friends and a job I love.

I see stbxh and he is desperate to come home. No chance. I wouldn't go back to walking on eggshells, self doubt, insecurity, mistrust and the utter soul-sapping feeling of not being good enough for anything. He wanted his soulmate, he's got her. All his dreams came true. Now he says 'be careful what you wish for' and is full of regret.

One day I'll find a man who thinks he's lucky to have me, or maybe I won't and will be single forever, I don't mind either way. But a man who sees me as the consolation prize? Nope. Life's too short OP, make yours one worth living.

OK and I 'm not for a minute looking at this as an expert although I'm sure there's a fancy schmancyvword for men like your husband but my take on this:

He's let you feel guilty for your MH problems (he only got an Oxbridge first in a non useful subject - I know plenty of people like that on £500k), he has let you earn the lion's share, he has disempowered you and "fucked-up" your daughter on top of that he is an adulterer.

Meanwhile you work fulltime, care and love for all around you fulltime, and are a complete success in your own right. You and the children have soldiered through renovations/extensions and the house is worth nor than it was.

Why is he coming back when all the work is done? It can only be to feather his own nest and minimise his losses when he leaves again

I can't tell you to have him back or not but before doing so I'd see a specialist lawyer and set out every detail and only go into it with full knowledge about maximising my assets and those that would be passed to my children
. My apologies if that's mercenary but it's what he deserves and you need to safeguard your future because he'll likely go anyway and if and when he does it needs to be on your terms.

You don't need a man, you need a gentleman who is honest and kind. Nothing you have posted evidences that he is. Be kind to yourself because he never will ne. When you are used to kindness you will see that