Dear mum of young kids who doesn't want to have sex

[Justlurkingaround]

This was mn blog of the day on Weds this week. I liked it so much I thought I'd post a link here. Hope the link works.

handfulofhalfpennys.co.uk/life/dear-mum-of-young-kids-who-doesnt-want-to-have-sex/

Again, I'm not sure there is disagreement. I don't think I've seen anyone saying you should have sex if you don't want to (though I may have missed a post). It's clearly wrong and unhealthy.
I think Peacefuleasy gave the best example of what a relationship without sex should be - loving, tactile and physically affectionate. Speaking from experience is is just the little hugs, hand holds etc. that are craved easily as much as the sex.
This is what is so confronting about the blog - she openly hates all contact with DP and has no concern for how this might make him feel.
I'm not saying she should be physically affectionate if she doesn't want to be, but I am saying that doesn't sound like a very happy house to be in. Not something to aspire to at the very least.

But she, I imagine,, went from wanting sex to not wanting to be even touched overnight. There's possibly a lot of selfishness and lack of consideration occurred prior to getting to this stage. A whole lot of not giving her time to herself.

Oh for heavens sake!!!

• But she, I imagine, DIDNT GO from wanting sex to not wanting to be even touched overnight.

(Lots of typing fails from me today!)

I also think this is a topic which should be discussed during NCT or antenatal classes - men NEVER talk about this, so (stupid as this now sounds) it is actually not entirely expected. I think it would help to manage expectations if men were told early on that if DP is pregnant and for at least 1st year after they're unlikely to be interested in sex.

Moin I fully agree that there is probably history of relationship which has driven her to this point (he sounds like an arse) but that isn't really made clear enough. Either way it is an unhealthy relationship and not one to be proud of.
On the other hand, I do see that this could be empowering to someone who is in a bad relationship and having sex out of some weird sense of duty.

Seriously, did none of you ever have a week spent with sticky toddler fingers constantly pawing you and a baby having a growth spurt and feeding all where loving touch was your work for the day and when the children were finally asleep you just really, really wanted some time where nobody was touching you?

If DP is ill, or has had a really shit week at work, he doesn't me to snuggle up to him with affectionate kisses. He wants nice cool clean sheets and for me to take the kids out so he can sleep and recover a bit. If I insisted on even non-sexual physical gestures of affection, that would be horrible and intrusive and I would be a really shitty person for putting my desires ahead of his needs. I expect the same consideration in return.

I found the article sad. Like most people, we went through a dry spell after our children were born, but I never felt about my husband the way the writer does about her - her writing drips with contempt for him. But then, I wouldn't choose to have 4 children, as I wanted to get my life and body back, not spend years being a sexless 'mum' figure.

Do grown adults really need to be told that their partners will sometimes not want sex over the course of a LTR?!

Do cancer patients need to have their partners called in so they can be told not to behave like sex pests too?

TBH the only part that sounds unhealthy is the part where she describes her husband pawing at her.

This is not her fault.

And no it doesn't 'drip with contempt' for him. She writes repeatedly about how much she loves him, she just doesn't like this particular behaviour.

Do you always have to like all your partner's behaviour or face being accused of holding them in contempt?

I didn't think the writer sounded very loving towards her husband. It sounded like a marriage with little caring and affection and I suspect it won't last the long haul once they emerge from babydom. If there ain't no love then there ain't no use, as they say.

I mean are people really suggesting that women should empathise with how difficult it is for a man not to have constant access to their body for a period of time but men lack the empathy to understand that child birth and the early years of childcare may lead to a dip in sex drive or a need for space before you can expect sex and need to be told in antenatal classes?!

Nothing she has said indicates she doesn't love or care for her husband.

She just doesn't like this behaviour and she wants space before she feels ready for sex. Temporarily while she is burdened by small kids.

I never really got the "touched out" thing. But then I wouldn't have kids climbing all over me if i didn't feel like it, I would tell them to stop. I think that sex basically disappearing after a couple of kids is pretty common, and often because the woman does feel over burdened by demands and drudgery.
I have always been a lone parent, and was frankly gagging for a bit by the end of the first year, so the opposite end of the spectrum! I am good at compartmentalising though. Being wanted as a mum doesn't make me feel less desirable as a woman. It's totally seperate.

I think most posters have understood that there is a dry spell when children are wee, it is the tone of the article which is so jarring - there is no hint that sex might be enjoyable for women and something she may be keen to rekindle, it is all 'hands off pal, I've done my bit'. It feels like the writer sees sex as something done to her, to please a man, not something she may actively want to participate in and miss herself.

The tone is about being touched when you don't want to be and about how the answer is to ask for space NOT have sex/touching you actively don't want.

No wonder we need to teach teenagers in schools about respect in relationships if adults need to be taught it in bloody NCT classes.

On the other hand, I do see that this could be empowering to someone who is in a bad relationship and having sex out of some weird sense of duty.

I'm not sure why you needed to put the word "weird" in that sentence. Given the discussion on this thread its hardly surprising that some tired vulnerable women could feel a confused sense of obligation.

And given how much "duty" intimacy/affection/touching/sex is expected on this thread I think quite a few relationships would fit your understanding of "bad".

Honestly Offred, no, I don't think men do realise that their partner may not want sex for a year, or even two after each child.

I didn't know that before I had dc, and started meeting women with kids, and coming on here.
There are lots of things that seem obvious and common to me now that really weren't pre- children. I guess at least this blog is talking about it (although on MN where people know already!)
I feel for anyone who has a sex pest husband. There is nowt worse than that faux affection of a man who just wants to get his dick wet , and it should be obvious really when a woman is just not in the mood.
Having said that, for a lot of people (not just men) sex is a way to intimacy, and to say to someone " there's no more intimacy left" for years on end is pretty hard on them too. I wouldn't want to be either of them in that marriage.

But the point is that not understanding that after having watched your partner carry a baby inside her body for 9 months, birth the baby and care for young children it should be clear that things have changed in the same way you notice a change when your partner is ill. It doesn't take being taught, it takes respect, basic empathy and an understanding of consent.

I don't think a man that needs to be taught or told that a partner's feelings about sex may change is one that is a particularly good partner TBH.

One that doesn't understand that you need consent for sexual activity is a positively dangerous partner.

I agree with If.
No I didn't know that I might not want sex for months after giving birth. And I didn't know that when you have two young dcs with you, needing you all day long, needing cuddles and holding etc... that would mean that at the end of the day, I just didn't want to be touched anymore.

As for the 'weird' sense of duty,mysteriously lthere was plenty of posters on here saying that sort of things when my dcs were little (that's a bit more than 10 years ago). People who were saying that my do would leave if he was 'forced' into an asexual relationship. That if I was pushing myself a bit, I would enjoy it anyway. Etc....
Add to that the fact that 'being pregnant isn't an illness' and 'women have had babies for thousands of years before you know...'

So no wonder that men think that having carried a baby for 9 months is NOT the same than being ill. That there is little need to adjust their behaviour 'because you've had the green light from the GP at the 6 weeks check up'.
There is a very clear assumption that once the baby is born, things will go back to 'normal'. Maybe with some adjustments (eg lets say once a week instead of 3 times a week) but no sex for a year or more after giving birth? Nope this is not what is expected by anyone, men or women.

No-one's talking about no sex for a year. It varies wildly from horny in the delivery suite right up to no sex for a year. All I'm saying if people don't realise that carrying a baby, birthing a baby and then caring for a baby might affect your sex drive, they should.

The onus should not be on the woman to empathise with a man who is 'pawing' her.

And I'm aware of the pressure on women who are expected to both do everything for the baby and make their body available for sex any time the man wants it.

In fact that is the very reason this woman wrote this blogpost - to tell women it is ok not to cave to this pressure from a partner and from society:

I just think it is a sorry state of affairs, both that it needs to be said, and that it has provoked such responses on here.

Offered I think some people are talking about no sex for a year, I was!
If we're just talking about a few months than absolutely, men should just suck it up. I wonder if this is why people seem to have different opinions in the thread?
I was really meaning that it's important to take DPs feelings into account if the situation lasts a number of years. I still definitely do not mean that you should have sex or do anything else you don't want to, I simply mean it's important to reinforce your feelings however you feel comfortable. And talk about it.

But the blog doesn't even say she is not having sex or not considering her husband's feelings.

It is a post about her feelings and about how she is handling them...

Yet people have jumped in saying she has contempt for him, their marriage is over, she has no love for him and shows him no affection, she has (and a number of women do) used him for children, she has decided their sex life is over.

If you read it, she says nothing about whether they are or aren't having sex. She describes honestly how it feels to be touched out and need time alone to recover and she urges people in the same position not to just give in for an easy life.

I think you have to read the blog post in relation to the one she is responding to. And I don't think you can make any assumptions about the state of her relationship.

Just asked DH and he described it as 'a bit of a hiatus' in our sex life after DD2 was born . I think we had sex a handful of times over almost 3 years. As PPs have suggested had a small gap between DD1 and DD2 (less than 18 months), I was still BFing when I became pregnant and my father was very ill. As soon as I knew I was pregnant we didn't have sex again due to complete and utter exhaustion and emotional stress (because of Dad) until a couple of months after she was born. Then it was painful. So we didn't have much sex for the next couple of years. I got my mojo back after about 2.5 years, we had a couple of months of shagging and then I got pregnant again (so we had 3 under 5 for a while). This time we did have lots of sex when pregnant (more similar to my first pregancy when i was horny as hell) but then not a lot for (again) about 2.5 years at which point something clicked and I wanted to have sex again. Now we have sex as much as we did in the early years of our relationship (we've been together over 20 years) so the lack of sex for years did not have a long term effect.

I think there are some cultures where men aren't allowed to have sex with his wife when she is Bfing and I think there's a lot of sense in that, I think for a lot of women Bfing does dampen sexual desire a lot more than is considered acceptable in this sex-up society. I couldn't bear my nipples to be touched by DH, it just felt so 'wrong' when I was BFing regularly. But I also went off a lot of things that I'd enjoyed before (and enjoy again now) so the map of my desire had changed completely making it difficult to get into the mood. Oh, and I did go off him overnight after the birth. I didn't even really want him in the bed in the first couple of weeks after the birth, I actually was physically repulsed by him at that stage, didn't want to see him naked even walking around the bedroom minding his own business, I was quite shocked by how I felt TBH it was so unexpected. It was something that was completely removed from my conscious mind (he's a fab Dad, does lots of housework and was brilliant during the birth etc).

I see this is in the Daily Mail today www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3450378/I-really-don-t-want-sex-nor-honest-women-young-children-says-mother-four-does-half-make-it.html. Lots of comments pointing out that maybe there's other changes that have happened over the course of the relationship that have affected how she feels towards sex with him.

Yes, I think there are quite a few factors missing from the blog post that throw a slightly - if not completely - different light on things, not least the speed with which they went from being 20 and dating, to 26 yr old parents of four kids.

The Daily Mail have worked their hideous ageing magic with the wardrobe selections - I really feel for the poor husband who's been put in the Mahoosively Unflattering Outfit usually reserved for the wife.