silly childish in laws

[sphinxster]

I've posted about this previously: in laws "devastated" and ignoring us because dh and I gave ds my surname as well as his/theirs.
DS is now 4 months old and they're still giving us the silent treatment. DH messages them updates about ds and sends photos. They've recently decided they want to Skype once a week to see ds (we live overseas). So once a week we have these awful silent Skype sessions where they won't acknowledge dh ( I don't get involved).
Talking to dh today that I really didn't like it and how long was he going to allow it. He says he doesn't want to stop them seeing their grandchild and wants to be the bigger person. I think they're the ones that are stopping themselves from seeing their grandchild and they should only be allowed to see him if they are willing to show some respect to his parents/us.
I'm really pissed off about their behaviour and even though he's too young to know what's going on, I don't want him exposed to this ridiculous behaviour.
WWYD? AIBU?

I agree with sm prev posters. Your OH is enabling them. They may be overseas but it's like they're the Puppeteers and he's the puppet! Wot u describe is strange beyond words! It is also extremely irrational and unreasonable.
They have NO rights wotsoever to see their Grandson under these warped and screwed up terms and until they behave like normal, rational grownups I think u should all cut contact. They're bloody toxic!
If your OH went NC it'd b interesting to see wot their reaction and nxt course of action would be.
You really should put your foot down over this, it's insane! And you're both playing the game and they're calling the shots. Tell him "no more" u won't have your son used like that and both u and your OH are being blatently manipulated into dancing to their tune.
It's fucking unbelievable, creepy, sinister and I wouldn't stand for it if I was in your shoes

Just to add.....this is more than just childish. This is very, very unacceptable and inappropriate. And I can virtually put money on the fact that they won't change. So, u think they're just gonna wake up one morning, accept they're behaving like half baked imbeciles and come to their senses? Not likely. How long is your OH prepared to b wrapped round their finger?
And I disagree with posters saying it's a prob for your OH. It's an issue affecting u ALL so u HAVE to be involved! I couldn't sit idly by and let my husband get on with it, watching as your son is used as a pawn in this dysfunctional madness. I'd feel like someone slipped me an acid, being present at these utterly sinister and bonkers Skype sessions! Bloody bonkers....sounds like something off Twin Peakes!

Ah I wonder if they are upset about your parents meeting your DS much earlier than them? That may well be the case here, and it's coming out another way. When people who have a tendency towards drama perceive that they are slighted in some way then things do get blown out of proportion. How long after the birth did they end up meeting DS? The more I think about it, the more I suspect this is at the root of the dynamic. They feel they are the second glass grandparents and your DS having your parents surname has just compounded that.

Their behaviour is in no way acceptable btw and I would definitely put a stop to the Skype sessions, but rather than trying to be assertive and dictatorial, it might be worth a frank and caring discussion first. If they don't respond to that, by all means go in all guns blazing.

And all this is because your child is 'Baby Smith-Brown' instead of 'Baby Brown'? I doubt that very much. Not criticizing you at all, OP, but I have feeling there's more to this than you realize! Unless they are racist and your name is an 'ethnic' one then this is about control.

I understand what others are saying about 'leaving the door open', but I believe the greater issue is the control they're demonstrating over your husband. And the issue is more that he didn't do what they told him to do rather than the hyphenated name itself, iyswim. So they must reassert their control over him to prevent this happening again. Because what will it be next? The child's religion? schooling? career? It will never end!

I agree with telling them that the silent treatment must stop and they must respect your and your DH's decision with regards to your child(ren). Because you are headed for years of this if you don't, every time you disagree with their 'dictates'.

I would agree this is more than just childish behaviour from the ILs; this is all about power and control. You would not have tolerated any of this from a friend, family are no different.

Its their way or no way as far as his parents are concerned, you are likely going to be in for more of the same if not further escalation in years to come as well. The more your DH tries to appease them or win their approval (approval btw they will never give him) the worse they will behave.

Toxic behaviour from his parents should simply not be further rewarded.
Your DH is handing over some of that power all too freely by sending them updates about your son. That should cease forthwith. And as for those awful Skype sessions, well why is he at all tolerating that?. His boundaries re his parents are way too low, perhaps again because of conditioning. He likely feels both unwilling and unable to stand up for his own self and family.

If they are too toxic as people or too difficult for either of you to deal with it is the same deal for your both vulnerable and defenceless child. They were not good parents to him, what makes him think that they will be at all decent grandparent figures?. They won't be and are not.

The other error DH has made here is his pronouncement that, "he doesn't want to stop them seeing their grandchild and wants to be the bigger person". He is making a huge error of judgment here by doing that, doing that also plays right into their hands. I can only assume that his own conditioning at the hands of his parents is behind that decision. He really cannot manage the relationship between him and his parents mainly because his parents are pulling the strings here. They have never let him become his own person. Your DHs own inertia when it comes to his family unit is simply hurting him as well as you and your son.

Your previous thread sphinxster (you were wondering earlier how to link your previous thread).

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2520817-silent-treatment-from-pils

Attila hello! I remember your great advice from my previous thread (thanks for linking). Unfortunately, as you can see, there's been no change. If anything it's worse. Short of having a showdown with dh and demanding he does as I say, I can't really force him to end these "twin peaks" Skype calls.
I've tried discussing with him how their behaviour is abusive and manipulative but we go round in circles with the "i won't stop them seeing their grandchild" and I really don't want to have bad feeling with dh about this. It must be horrible having parents treat him this way, he doesn't really need his partner to 'have a go' too.

I've worded an email and dh is going to read and edit. Basically stating: reiterating why we asked them not to come close to due date, that both baby and I were seriously ill, my parents came to help not to be #1 grandparents, invited them for Christmas (said no), surname isn't about my parents or family it's my name, and that they are taking these things too personally and only upsetting themselves, we want them in ds's life but only if they get over their issue with the name.

Attila hello! I remember your great advice from my previous thread (thanks for linking). Unfortunately, as you can see, there's been no change. If anything it's worse. Short of having a showdown with dh and demanding he does as I say, I can't really force him to end these "twin peaks" Skype calls.
I've tried discussing with him how their behaviour is abusive and manipulative but we go round in circles with the "i won't stop them seeing their grandchild" and I really don't want to have bad feeling with dh about this. It must be horrible having parents treat him this way, he doesn't really need his partner to 'have a go' too.

I've worded an email and dh is going to read and edit. Basically stating: reiterating why we asked them not to come close to due date, that both baby and I were seriously ill, my parents came to help not to be #1 grandparents, invited them for Christmas (said no), surname isn't about my parents or family it's my name, and that they are taking these things too personally and only upsetting themselves, we want them in ds's life but only if they get over their issue with the name.

Ah it's dear Fluffy Monkey-Balls. I hope he's well.

I think I missed the end of your last thread, sphinxster. I'm afraid this did make me laugh: It's been 3weeks since we learnt Baby's full name we were on a bus in xxx and in tears. The decision that you and Sphinxster made hurt us and that hurt is not going away and very much doubt it will.We are devastated. We have no objections to Sphinxster's maiden name but as soon as Baby was born he had a surname and all other names are given.The decision you and Sphinxster made has consequences

As soon as Fluffy was born he didn't have a surname (although I agree with you, he will have been initially registered in the maternity system with your surname, and known by that surname until you did a civil registration of his name). They appear to be under the misapprehension that babies are born in some way 'pre-identified'. This is no more true of us than it is of an actual monkey.

I actually thought FuckYouChris' email in the last thread was spot on, even more so now:

"Dear PIL,

We were surprised to hear that you had such an emotional reaction to ds's name. There's not really any response we can give that will help you.

The correct response to hearing a new child's name is "how lovely" (even if you don't particularly like it). We are obviously disappointed in your reaction, but hope you find a way to come to terms with your issue soon. Perhaps it would be best to postpone your visit in February, until you are better able to cope.

Love Dh"

The silent Skpying sound bizarre and must be very hurtful for your DH. However, it's his choice to tolerate it. Would it be wrong to have some very mournful violin music playing in the background during the sessions? Maybe do it in black and white like a silent movie?

I think this very much concerns you. They are behaving as if you were just an incubator and have no right to include your own identity as part of your child's name.

I very much believe that if grandparents want access to the children, they need to be civil to the parents. It does children no good to see their parents treated like shit and just putting up with it. How will your child learn to demand respect in life if your dh won't demonstrate how to insist upon it?

His current stance is something he may well come to regret, particularly in years to come.

E-mailing them is going to do the two of you no favours whatsoever. Further engagement will them is completely inadvisable because they are not emotionally healthy people. Emotionally healthy and reasonable people would never have acted like this or taken you to task over the surname you both chose for your child.

An e-mail or any correspondence for that matter, no matter how nicely or diplomatically worded, will be used against the two of you and it will be picked apart systematically. For toxic people like his parents the best defence is attack. Your e-mail will provide them with ideal ammo to do that very thing.

All you can both do ultimately is to disengage though your DH seems nowhere near being able to do so due mainly to their conditioning of him. He may well want to have a relationship of sorts with his parents (it is bloody hard to at all accept that your parents have not been ideal at all) but it does not follow that you have to and your son needs protecting from their malign influences. You only need also to look at DH to see the sort of emotional damage they could do to your son.

Btw, you know that it isn't only to do with the name, it's to do with you asserting your equal status within the relationship. Remember when they told you to work part-time after uni because otherwise you would earn more than your DH and it wasn't right?

I'm very sorry to hear about your friends' baby, that must be incredibly distressing. The fact that they are putting their own petty bullshit power play ahead of your baby is unforgiveable. I assume DH hasn't read Toxic In-Laws? I think you were reading it on the previous thread.

How childish & horrible their behaviour is!

I wonder if there is a compromise if your DH won't "stop them seeing their grandchild" but these Skype calls are hideous - could he instead send regular photos & videos? At least then you wouldn't have to put up with the bizarre "ignoring" trick and your son wouldn't have to be exposed to it either.

You could have died giving birth to their precious "blood grandchild" goddamnit! I hate it when PILs decide they can get as nosy as they like. One of my SIL wanted to choose the name for my DS as he was her "first baby of the dearest brother she has in the whole world" kind of some crap thing. She took offended when DH refused and said he wanted his wife to choose as he thought I had the biggest claim to that. For nearly a year, she kept using that name to talk to DS. Me and DH calmly ignored until I think she finally saw how foolish she was. Lol. I suggest you keep calm and carry on. They will get over it themselves because it's their issue, not your problem if they don't want to see their blood grandchild.

I can see people's points of view about leaving doors open and being the bigger person etc but i feel we can still do these things if we say to get in touch when they've dealt with their issues and moved on.

As a side point, if they are miffed about not seeing monkey balls then how do they think being like this will resolve that situation!!

Hetero I'm sorry you had a similar thing with your parents, I can see my dh feels like you did and struggles to disobey them.

Miscellaneous & moomin I completely agree with you but it's very difficult for my dh to disengage from them and I really can't force him (otherwise I'll be no better than them) I can only mention how creepy and insisted it is. And yes, I do think he believes they'll wake up one morning and not be half baked imbeciles.

Tribpot HELLO! Lovely to hear from you. Yes, I still snort over the "sitting on a bus" message and the responses it got on here. I think I may go all out and hire a violin player to sit next to ds on the next call.

Yes, NN, that's exactly how it feels. As tribpot has said, my equal status within my marriage really irks them and they'd much prefer a passive incubator.

Attila, wwyd to disengage? One email saying we've had enough but do get in touch when you've stopped being arses? Or just say no to Skype from now on?

Tribpot, I got a couple of chapters in but with everything that's been happening: our friends' ds, non-paying tenant in our uk house, attempting writing my thesis, and a cat war within the house, I generally just sit on Hay Day and zone out of the world when I have a spare two minutes atm (I might hire that violinist for me).

Tea that might be a good compromise for now. Just agree to send them a one minute video every week or something?

Valentine who the chuff thinks they can name someone else's child! It's her only nephew, it's their only blood grandchild, it's our children!!!

yes well from one incubator to another i can tell you end this now or it will drive a wedge between you and your dh i know my marriage is over for other reasons but the toxic in laws made my life uncomfortable right from the off

I'm assuming the visit in February isn't going ahead?

I think you do need to be careful of pushing your DH to disengage but he is very deeply enmeshed with them and is nowhere close to realising how toxic this all is. Fortunately there is little actual damage they can do from a distance and Fluffy will be oblivious to all this shit for quite a long time to come.

We wouldn't know if they were still planning on visiting because they don't speak to us. Can you imagine how awkward that visit would be!

And yes, I really don't want to push dh into anything he doesn't want to do.

Abbsis one of my main concerns during all of this is that it could potentially upset our relationship. I was concerned that PIL's behaviour would affect dh's opinion of how we'd named our son and now I'm concerned that if I keep mentioning how horrid they are he'll withdraw iyswim. He really isn't that kind of person though, he's such a good person.

I might email them videos every few weeks but you, dh and ds come as a group package. It's all of you or none of you - otherwise poor ds trying to get his head around people who supposedly love him but won't speak to daddy or mummy because they're trying emotional blackmail to change his name. (So they're stating ds is unacceptable as well.). That's adult head fuckery, leave the poor child out of it!

Sphinxter What do your parents think of all this palarver? How did they get on with the freakish pair anyways?

Is this the FOG often referred to on here, re your husband being their puppet and believing they´ll wake up one day and be normal?

I sympathise with your predicament, but you are not powerless. Tough shit if they´re his parents, your son is yours also! For me, I would be wading in there to protect my child from their toxicity ( as Atilla rightly said ), seeing as you´ve got a duty of care towards your own child and everything..... But that´s just me and everyone will handle this situation differently I appreciate.

You´ve got a cooler head on your shoulders than me, and more tolerance too, I´ll give you that! Cos I´d be shouting the odds with my OH if it were me and insist on going full NC with regards to you and your son. Your OH can do what he wants....as long as that doesn´t involve inviting them over obv!

They need to be made aware that by behaving like this they´re shooting themselves in the foot cos you will no longer tolerate and sit idly by and allow these cringe-worthy Skype sessions. They need to know there´s consequences to out of order behaviour. But cos they´re seeing your son you´re showing them there are no consequences!

However, as somebody mentioned above, a reasonable compromise would be to send the odd picture/vid of your son, but remain NC yourselves. I think this would be more effective than sending them an email, probably falling on deaf ears anyway if it´s already been said. If they see pics of your son, I would think it likely that they reconsider their proposterous behaviour in order to have an actual relationship with him.

However ( again ) would that really make a difference now that you´ve both seen their true colours, what their views are and what they´re capable of? But, honestly, they have no rights to see your son and you both have no obligation to show him to them.

They truly do sound like some glaiket buggers from the Wicker Man or a David Lynch movie. Creepy as fook! Wouldn´t want these toxic turds in mine or my child´s life personally. You owe them precisely nothing.