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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

It's long, I'm so in the wrong, but I'm in a mess and need a place to talk...

424 replies

AnotherFineMess16 · 20/01/2016 15:34

... if you could see your way fit to let me and reach a hand into the flames that I suspect are about to engulf me. I'm ready.

Nobody knows any of this. Some people know some things, but nobody knows it all apart from me and him. I suppose I'm at the point now I need an outside, objective opinion from somebody who, yes, might judge, but will do so from a place of fairness and neutrality (I hope). I thank you in advance.

16 years ago, I embarked on an 2 year long affair. He was married, I was single. I was 24, he was 30. Yes, there were kids involved, I know it was wrong, but I did it. I have no excuses, unless love/infatuation/lust is one. There is no other. It was wrong, we were wrong, I knew it, he knew it, yet we did it. There is nothing I can do to change that now. Long story short, he left his then wife and we were together. About a year afterwards, he dumped me from a great height. Completely out of the blue and it devastated me. "Karma" I hear you cry? Maybe so, I don't believe in it particularly, but this was certainly payback. A couple of months later, he came to me to tell me that he had gotten another girl pregnant. The dates suggest that she was impregnated either very close to the end of our relationship or just before. I have never had the stomach to ask too many questions, we were over anyway and I was already in a very, very dark place and physically and mentally could not cope with any more at this point. I'm not exaggerating when I tell you that I was in pieces. He wanted me back several times thereafter, but I couldn't and wouldn't. And, as it does, life moved on and so did I eventually. We stayed in touch throughout the years. The odd text, mail or (drunken) phone call. Ashamed to say there were a few nights together in there too. He would always tell me he made the biggest mistake of his life letting me go. I agreed with him. There is huge back story about his now ex wife and family and their (justified) hatred of me that also led to him dumping me, but the buck stopped with him and he just didn't love me enough, no matter what he says. I, however, sap that I am, always loved him, but the damage was so done and so was I. The whole thing really scarred me.

9 years ago I met a man. A lovely, kind, responsible man who I respected and had a deep fondness for. I knew I didn't love him passionately but I knew he would never let me down. Our sex life was never very good, but being in whatever dillusional frame of mind I was at that time, I thought I could live without it and that there was much more to life than sex. I was 31. We eventually married. We did not have sex on our honeymoon. In fact, we very rarely had sex at all. I would never tell anyone or disaparage my husband IRL, but he was unable to perform most of the times we tried. We eventually stopped even trying nearly 4 years ago. We haven't been intimate since. We both decided we'd like a child together, so as I had my own 'wimmins' problems, we used that as our excuse to go for IVF. We were very lucky and successful and we now have one child. It doesn't take a genius to work out the next bit...

Enter original MM. We got back in touch, we met, we slept together 4 months ago. We have now met 9 more times (it would be more but we live a distance apart) and have spoken/text/mailed eachother every day since. And here comes the cliche and I can hear myself, I know what I sound like, a fuckin' stupid idiot, but I love him. And I believe he loves me. We want to be together, properly and just do it right this time. Although, I accept it's been a very shitty start. Shortly after this first meeting, I finally sat with my husband and told him what I should have done months if not years previously, that the marriage was over. I did not tell him about the OM. We are now separated, although we continue to live together until we can find a suitable place for him to move into. We will co-parent our child and we are amicable right now. Probably due, in no small part to the fact that he doesn't know about OM. I know that we would have separated soon, regardless of the OM entering my life again. I was a fool to think otherwise.

OM is in a LTR, however, they are also in separate bedrooms, he tells me. I do believe him, as gullible as that makes me sound. He has told me he will leave in the next 6 months but he wants to make the break as 'gentle' as possible. They have no children together, but she has 2, one of which is a teenager and lives with them. He feels responsibility towards this child as well as wanting to spare his partner as much as possible. I do not agree with his strategy, but it is his plan so I will leave him to do it. We have agreed to have no more meetings and very reduced contact for the coming months until such time as we are free to pursue a legitmate relationship.

God, I do love him but I don't know if I'll ever be able to fully trust him and I'm so worried I'm going to be hurt again. Yet, yet, yet, I can't seem to stop it. What am I even asking for here? From you? I don't know really. A big bucket of wake up and smell the coffee maybe? I'm a fucking mess. Are we completely selfish bastards? Are we wrong for wanting to be together and have some sort of happiness for the rest of our days? Can anyone out there, any of you, see any hope or happiness coming out of this? I'm not a fool, really. I know we're not some modern day Romeo and Juliette, I know there is no such thing as 'soul mates' but if there were, he seems to be mine. He's my lobster... Has anyone had anything similar happen? Maybe you could tell me how it turned out? OK. I'm braced. Thanks for reading.

OP posts:
PirateSmile · 20/01/2016 17:05

The answer to resolving your bad marriage is not with this mm.
All you've done is lurch from one shit relationship to another shit relationship. It's just they're shit in different ways Confused

AvaLeStrange · 20/01/2016 17:05

What FuckYouChris said, with bells on.

I have a certain amount of sympathy for you - God knows why, but let's face it, shit happens.

Round 1 destroyed his marriage and no doubt had a huge impact on the lives of his children.

You have a child of your own now - no doubt much wanted, and by the sounds of it, against the odds. Please think of what you might ultimately be getting them into as well as yourself.

Tbh this man sounds more like a prize cockwomble than 'love of your life' material.

Tell him you want nothing more to do with him until he's really free, then delete him from everything so you can't change your mind. Work on your self esteem so that when/if he does come crawling back you can confidently tell him in now uncertain terms where to go.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 20/01/2016 17:07

I wouldn't have friends left if I told the truth

I doubt that, MN is way harsher than IRL Grin

Look you have 6 months OP, and if you are both prepared to wait- stay single, get therapy and do some thinking? I think a decent counsellor will help you understand some of your choices. Ideally you would stop thinking of him as your lobster and explore why you are so hung up on someone that hurt you so much. Please het some help

I am sorry, life sucks and I can hear your pain

FantasticButtocks · 20/01/2016 17:08

If you really mean what you say about your child, then no, don't give him another chance. He will fuck you up even more, and your child will suffer with an unhappy mother.

Your child can't be left out of this. Whatever state you are in will affect your child.

If your child is your priority, then get yourself some professional help to sort yourself out.

YouGottaKeepEmSeparated · 20/01/2016 17:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CheersMedea · 20/01/2016 17:09

AnotherFineMess

In your OP you say:

We have agreed to have no more meetings and very reduced contact for the coming months until such time as we are free to pursue a legitmate relationship

and then you said in response to TreadSoftly's comment that this meant just sex:

reduced contact, means reduced electronic contact. There will be no meeting and no sex. Of that much I'm sure.

Are you sure you haven't been dumped? Sounds very like it to me:

  1. He's with someone else.
  2. He doesn't have plans to leave her for at least six months.
  3. He's not going to see you or have sex with you for at least six months.
  4. And you aren't going to be texting/emailing.

FOR SIX MONTHS?!?! Yeah - sure he loves you. 6 months is a long time to be apart if you actually want to be with someone. I think he may be trying to distance himself from you; keep you on a back burner in case he fancies another shag at the same time as making sure you aren't interfering with his actual relationship with his gf.

What are you thinking? This is NO GOOD FOR YOUR EMOTIONAL HEALTH.

30andtired · 20/01/2016 17:09

You sound in utter turmoil. I'm not going to berate you about the affairs as you seem at rock bottom although I've been cheated on so I'm just pointing out I do not agree with affairs in any way at all.

You are not a bad person, just have gotten caught up in circumstances you've felt unable to control.

Now it's time to take control and to work on your self worth.

Work on moving current husband out of your house, work on yourself. Join a class, or a club. Do some exercise, get out of the house more. Fill your time and mind space with enjoyable things.

Do not contact MM until he tells you he is single.

I know you don't believe it but it sounds to me like he doesn't want to leave his ltr, or he would have by now.

Once you've worked on yourself and making yourself happy, youll be in a much better position emotionally to make decisions about him that won't affect your mental health.

Never, ever forget how much he hurt you last time and always remember he has the power to do that again (and hopefully that'll stop you going back).

Be kind to yourself.

AnotherFineMess16 · 20/01/2016 17:10

LoTiQueiro - Thank you. That was very insightful. I will reread your words in a while.

Obsessedlex - Again, thank you. I expect the harsh here, I really do, but I need balance too. I don't assume I'd be as lucky as you, but you prove there's a possibility. I'm so sorry about your MC, really. And I'm glad you got the lobster thing without thinking I'm a dick. It really was tongue in cheek...

Wristy - you actually made me smile even if you didn't mean to, much needed. Thanks, love you too ;)

There are too many for personal mentions right now and I'm off again. Running between this and the pasta on the boil! But thanks once again, I'll be back later.

OP posts:
KinkyAfro · 20/01/2016 17:11

You're the only one bringing your child into this, no-one else. Have a bit of respect for yourself, leave your husband if you don't love him but don't leave him for the waste of space. You say you won't bring your child into a relationship until you're 100%, could you ever be 100% sure with this man?

Why not try staying single for a while, maybe you'll meet an unattached man one day.

stumblymonkey · 20/01/2016 17:11

No judging here but I really believe that the best thing you can do for yourself right now is to enter into some therapy.

Find a decent therapist who you click with and work some of this through....

Why do you love a man who has hurt you? What are you seeking and why do you think you'll find it in a relationship with this man? Why do you have such a low self esteem that you settle for these relationships? What does love really mean to you? Who are you outside of a relationship?

Whatever happens with the MM, whether he leaves his LTR or doesn't...working these things through and coming to a conclusion where you don't feel so confused and lost and sad is the only action that has a hope of providing a path to happiness.

Relate counsellors provide counselling to single people who have issues around relationships so you could start there...

Ruthiesj · 20/01/2016 17:12

He doesn't love you, he is a deeply insecure man who needs to feel needed and loved by someone on his terms. You fulfil that requirement for now, but his problems cannot be cured by your love and understanding.

I had a man like this in my life in my late teens/early 20s and I'm thankful he's no longer part of it as I would only be miserable. We shared a special chemistry that I romanticised for far too long. In that time he told me he loved me, would marry me, etc. but his actions were entirely selfish. It's not love.

Have some respect for yourself and your DD and leave this man in the past where he belongs.

blindsider · 20/01/2016 17:14

Just Wow

Badders123 · 20/01/2016 17:16

"Sordid mess"
You nailed it.

Christinayangstwistedsista · 20/01/2016 17:17

*er no sorry you have already done that

BookNeek · 20/01/2016 17:19

If he wants to 'do it right this time', tell him you'll see him in 6 months time, when he has broken up with his partner.

Honestly. If its all 'soulmate-love' and destiny, it can wait until he has made a clean break from his current relationship.

My question to you, though, isn't based on being judgy or whatever...its just a simple one that I think you really, really need to consider before you do anything else...how will you trust him? You know he is pretty much incapable of being faithful, or being honest with any of the women he has been in LTRs with. Can you honestly trust him to be at least honest about who he is with you? it doesn't sound like he is capable f even being honest with himself...

DrMorbius · 20/01/2016 17:21

I'm going to go against the flow.
Tell your DH you are a cheating ( you fill in the expletive) and leave him and your DC to find sanity and have a happy life.

You hook up, frequently/infrequently, whatever you chose with your mm, doesn't matter whether he is in a relationship or not. Just fill your boots with him. At least you two specimens of crap will be reasonably contained and unable to wreak distruction on the civilised world.

banff82 · 20/01/2016 17:21

'He's my lobster' 'Romeo and Juliet' 'soul mates' - oh please, come on. Are you 16? You might say you don't think that you're the latter two and it's tongue in cheek, but deep down you really have bought into your own hype about your 'relationship' with this utter waste of oxygen dickhead of a man.

You are stuck on this angsty, dramatic, tortured 'great love' thing but from a clear-eyed outside perspective you are totally deluding yourself. He is 50-odd years old; he has shown and still continues to show, time and time again, who he really is. Why don't you believe him? He will not change. You will never be able to trust him. Everyone wants to be happy but this really is not your route to long-term happiness. More like madness and (more) heartbreak.

You are 40 years old and have a child - regardless of what you say there's no way you can be involved with this man without it affecting them. It's time to grow up, stop being so utterly selfish and seek some professional help to help you figure out why you have acted the way you have, and why you think that an untrustworthy scumbag who repeatedly cheats on, strings along and dumps his partners (and children) is the best that you can do.

SongBird16 · 20/01/2016 17:23

"Im not a bad person really, I've just made some bad decisions and hurt some people unintentionally" said every bad person ever.

The decisions and choices you make in life are literally ALL you can be judged on - you can't help how clever you are, how pretty you are or how talented you are, but you can certainly be kind, compassionate, selfless and thoughtful. Failure to demonstrate these qualities, repeatedly, kind of does make you a bad person. The fact that you hurt yourself in the process is neither here nor there, that's just stupidity and an inability to learn from past mistakes.

I think it's pretty obvious what will happen next, and it's got car crash written all over it.

In fact, it's quite funny how pathetically willing you are to attribute positive intentions to his fuckwit behaviour even now.

I think I said earlier that I wasn't judging but every post you make is more deluded, you sound like a 14yo.

I don't doubt that it is possible for a lasting relationship to be borne out of an affair, albeit rarely, but in the circumstances you describe, no chance.

Christinayangstwistedsista · 20/01/2016 17:24

Sorry posted too soon

DO not bring my child into this wtf, you come on asking for advice, people try and support you then you decide to dictate the terms

Your child is involved in this, your spending your time thinking and crying over a liar and cheat, debating whether to start a life with this arsehole and you think your child won't be affected?????? What's happens when hge dumps you again? What happens when you have to explain how you met or why he doesn't see his children????

Sunnyshores · 20/01/2016 17:24

So youre going to leave your Dh anyway. And then 6 months down the track this 'lobster' may or may not be free and you may or may not want him. You dont need to concentrate on this, right here, right now you and Dc need a plan for tomorrow and tomorrow doesnt include him.

The next 6 months is all about you and your Dc getting settled into a new home and new routine, you being responsible and getting your act together. Do that and then in 6 months see how you feel.

BlondeOnATreadmill · 20/01/2016 17:24

You ask if people can change.

Yes, they can and some do learn from previous mistakes.

BUT, he is showing you that he has NOT changed at all. He is STILL a cheater and a liar.

You are not in LOVE. You're in LUST.

If he was in love with you, he wouldn't be giving his current relationship another 6 months.

He's a toe rag. He continually steps outside of his relationships and sticks his dick into someone else.

Has he EVER been faithful? He wasn't faithful to you the first time round. He won't be this time round.

He's a "grass is greener" kind of guy.

Invest in Horse blinkers. You're going to need them.

FantasticButtocks · 20/01/2016 17:27

I would die to protect that wee one and there's no man on earth that will muddy the waters in that respect.

He's actually already muddied the waters. You've said you're in a mess. Because of him. And if you're in a mess, then your dc will be affected. Because of him you married your child's father without loving him, because of him you are now separating from your dc's father. I think you need to accept this. Because when you do, then you'll be able to put your child first.

AnotherFineMess16 · 20/01/2016 17:27

Yes, the next 6 months are all about me and my wee one. Moving on from my marriage, clearing my mind and deciding what I want. And that's why I'm here. I'm trying to decide what I want. Do I want him? Do I want the idea of him? Do I just want to be alone? Well, I know what I want. And yes, I know I sound like a fucking teenager, but I want him. Christ.

Ok, so MN jury are saying, counselling/therapy could be the way to go? I hadn't actually considered it before. It might be the right thing though if I'm sounding as fucked up as you're all telling me I am.

OP posts:
Shutthatdoor · 20/01/2016 17:28

My child. DO NOT bring my child into this

Your DC is already involved in this whether you like it or not.

You are still lying. You haven't told your stbxh the truth. you will take the cowards way out and won't though that you were having an affair whilst married to him.

OM won't leave his LTR and if he does he will cheat on you.

Sweetdreamsforall · 20/01/2016 17:29

Run.

Or stay. Continue the pattern. And remember that dark hole you were in years ago where you hated life and felt pure misery engulf your every waking and sleeping cell? You'll be there again soon enough.

Time to ditch this addiction for good op.