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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

It's long, I'm so in the wrong, but I'm in a mess and need a place to talk...

424 replies

AnotherFineMess16 · 20/01/2016 15:34

... if you could see your way fit to let me and reach a hand into the flames that I suspect are about to engulf me. I'm ready.

Nobody knows any of this. Some people know some things, but nobody knows it all apart from me and him. I suppose I'm at the point now I need an outside, objective opinion from somebody who, yes, might judge, but will do so from a place of fairness and neutrality (I hope). I thank you in advance.

16 years ago, I embarked on an 2 year long affair. He was married, I was single. I was 24, he was 30. Yes, there were kids involved, I know it was wrong, but I did it. I have no excuses, unless love/infatuation/lust is one. There is no other. It was wrong, we were wrong, I knew it, he knew it, yet we did it. There is nothing I can do to change that now. Long story short, he left his then wife and we were together. About a year afterwards, he dumped me from a great height. Completely out of the blue and it devastated me. "Karma" I hear you cry? Maybe so, I don't believe in it particularly, but this was certainly payback. A couple of months later, he came to me to tell me that he had gotten another girl pregnant. The dates suggest that she was impregnated either very close to the end of our relationship or just before. I have never had the stomach to ask too many questions, we were over anyway and I was already in a very, very dark place and physically and mentally could not cope with any more at this point. I'm not exaggerating when I tell you that I was in pieces. He wanted me back several times thereafter, but I couldn't and wouldn't. And, as it does, life moved on and so did I eventually. We stayed in touch throughout the years. The odd text, mail or (drunken) phone call. Ashamed to say there were a few nights together in there too. He would always tell me he made the biggest mistake of his life letting me go. I agreed with him. There is huge back story about his now ex wife and family and their (justified) hatred of me that also led to him dumping me, but the buck stopped with him and he just didn't love me enough, no matter what he says. I, however, sap that I am, always loved him, but the damage was so done and so was I. The whole thing really scarred me.

9 years ago I met a man. A lovely, kind, responsible man who I respected and had a deep fondness for. I knew I didn't love him passionately but I knew he would never let me down. Our sex life was never very good, but being in whatever dillusional frame of mind I was at that time, I thought I could live without it and that there was much more to life than sex. I was 31. We eventually married. We did not have sex on our honeymoon. In fact, we very rarely had sex at all. I would never tell anyone or disaparage my husband IRL, but he was unable to perform most of the times we tried. We eventually stopped even trying nearly 4 years ago. We haven't been intimate since. We both decided we'd like a child together, so as I had my own 'wimmins' problems, we used that as our excuse to go for IVF. We were very lucky and successful and we now have one child. It doesn't take a genius to work out the next bit...

Enter original MM. We got back in touch, we met, we slept together 4 months ago. We have now met 9 more times (it would be more but we live a distance apart) and have spoken/text/mailed eachother every day since. And here comes the cliche and I can hear myself, I know what I sound like, a fuckin' stupid idiot, but I love him. And I believe he loves me. We want to be together, properly and just do it right this time. Although, I accept it's been a very shitty start. Shortly after this first meeting, I finally sat with my husband and told him what I should have done months if not years previously, that the marriage was over. I did not tell him about the OM. We are now separated, although we continue to live together until we can find a suitable place for him to move into. We will co-parent our child and we are amicable right now. Probably due, in no small part to the fact that he doesn't know about OM. I know that we would have separated soon, regardless of the OM entering my life again. I was a fool to think otherwise.

OM is in a LTR, however, they are also in separate bedrooms, he tells me. I do believe him, as gullible as that makes me sound. He has told me he will leave in the next 6 months but he wants to make the break as 'gentle' as possible. They have no children together, but she has 2, one of which is a teenager and lives with them. He feels responsibility towards this child as well as wanting to spare his partner as much as possible. I do not agree with his strategy, but it is his plan so I will leave him to do it. We have agreed to have no more meetings and very reduced contact for the coming months until such time as we are free to pursue a legitmate relationship.

God, I do love him but I don't know if I'll ever be able to fully trust him and I'm so worried I'm going to be hurt again. Yet, yet, yet, I can't seem to stop it. What am I even asking for here? From you? I don't know really. A big bucket of wake up and smell the coffee maybe? I'm a fucking mess. Are we completely selfish bastards? Are we wrong for wanting to be together and have some sort of happiness for the rest of our days? Can anyone out there, any of you, see any hope or happiness coming out of this? I'm not a fool, really. I know we're not some modern day Romeo and Juliette, I know there is no such thing as 'soul mates' but if there were, he seems to be mine. He's my lobster... Has anyone had anything similar happen? Maybe you could tell me how it turned out? OK. I'm braced. Thanks for reading.

OP posts:
YouGottaKeepEmSeparated · 20/01/2016 17:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CozyLinusBlanket · 20/01/2016 17:47

Well, no her child isn't involved. As she said, the marriage was dead in the water whatever else was going on. Best case scenario is that it would have limped on a little further, that's all.

But of course he is sleeping with his current partner.

And the reappearing in your life doesn't make it a sitcom romance. (And by the way Ross was a controlling creep who seemed to drop his son once he had a new child, among other things, so no great relationship role model.) He hasn't treated you well. It could be that he is bored with his current girlfriend, so what else to do but call his good old faithful fallback? I assume his family still hate you which will get things off to a bad start, and then you'l have to hope that no-one else catches his eye. And if he drops his current girlfriends kids like hot bricks when he gets with you, that's what he'll do to yours too. If you do go for this, continue to keep your child out of it.

CheersMedea · 20/01/2016 17:49

Not one of you think that this man has it in him to be faithful to me?

No - but there are plenty of women in relationships with men who aren't faithful and tolerate it - ranging from those in open marriages, swingers to women wanting to hang on to a lifestyle (how many premiership footballers' wives do you think got married with a real expectation of fidelity?).

You either need to not care yourself and be as tough as nails (which doesn't sound like you are) OR get some major personal benefit out of the relationship that would warrant putting up with infidelity.

A millionaire lifestyle might cut it for some; short term great sex really won't.

Shutthatdoor · 20/01/2016 17:51

Well, no her child isn't involved

The OP will be bringing them onto this car crash of a relationship when the get together (I think they will, before he cheats again)

Andthentherewasmum · 20/01/2016 17:56

Your child will be involved because even if you keep him at arms length you're going to be on an emotional see saw with this man.

You admitted in your OP that when he dropped you the first time you fell into depression. Your child is going to have to live with a depressed and unhappy mother when it happens again. That's the part that is unfair because you are knowingly risking your stability on a complete loser.

AnotherFineMess16 · 20/01/2016 17:56

Fuck me, do I regret the lobster reference... It was a joke. Honest to God, he's not my fucking lobster, ok?

OK, sex. Yes, the sex is great. But look, I've had great sex before, with other people. It's not the sex. It's more than that. I'm not going into the details because I'll come across like a dick again. But needless to say, it's a bit deeper than the hands in pants, grunting scenario (sorry can't remember who posted that, but it was funny, fair play).

You are all very sure he is sleeping with is current partner. And hey, you could all be right, I'll never know for sure. I really, really don't think so though. He was sleeping with her when we first got together, I know that. He moved into the spare room last week. Again, he could be lying. But really, why. Why would he be lying to me? He's not getting sex from me right now anyway and won't be for the foreseeable, so what would be the point of all of this if he didn't intend to leave? No doubt there'll be theories a plenty on that in due course.

The kids from his first marriage are now teenagers. Their mother remarried years ago and went on to have other kids. How she would react to see me back on the scene all these years later remains to be seen. Badly I suspect, but I don't know for sure. We have spoken about this, but it's another bridge we'd have to cross I guess. IF things work out, of course...

OP posts:
obsessedlex · 20/01/2016 17:56

Anotherfinemess - poor love, I feel so sad for you, I know you have asked for opinions but some are so harsh. If he really loves you, he can change.
You are so right to take time out for yourself, and if I understand you correctly that IS what you mean. You'll change your mind a million times in that period but if it's right it WILL work out.
Be kind to yourself.
I don't know if reading so much slamming criticism is good for your heart or head xx

category12 · 20/01/2016 17:58

He might love you. In so far as he's capable of it. But love isn't enough. Loving someone doesn't make the relationship workable or healthy or possible.

Love isn't good of itself, that's rom-com bullshit. It needs accompanying things, which do not appear in his character.

Sometimes people are just bad for each other and destructive and ghastly, and that's what you are together.

Dtmfa and get therapy.

Christinayangstwistedsista · 20/01/2016 18:00

Where is AF when you need her? I think her straight talking is needed to cut through some of this shite and drivel

Andthentherewasmum · 20/01/2016 18:00

Seriously OP why did you bother posting? You've clearly made your mind up and are willing to swallow whatever line he gives you.

Don't you want more for yourself than a serial cheater?

Funinthesun15 · 20/01/2016 18:00

Again, he could be lying. But really, why. Why would he be lying to me?

Can you really not see why he would lie to you?

That aside his track record for being truthful isn't great is it?

YouGottaKeepEmSeparated · 20/01/2016 18:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

crazyhead · 20/01/2016 18:01

I'm not interested in doling out judgments. I'm an atheist but 'he who casts the first stone' comes to mind when I read this sort of thread. Anyway - you've basically had two significant experiences, haven't you OP and I bet at some level you are comparing them. You've married and had kids with someone you were never into, and you've had this lengthy pash with this guy you've never quite had, who keeps you feeling all intense by behaving badly and staying out of reach in his 'separate bedrooms' relationship. No wonder Mr Unfaithful seems so hot stacked up against your sexless marriage!

Many people go through these stages but graduate to be really happy in long term relationships which have a different dynamic - probably not as intense as what you feel right now but based on love, warmth, fun and trust and actually - satisfying sex. I seriously doubt you and this guy will turn into that - it's never been about actually being together. Yes, people move on from tough beginnings but rarely from years and hurt and betrayal.

You can talk about him loving you - but there are many peaceful ways in which people live together in which you won't know each other at all.

In terms of 'can he change' what is very clear from your story is that he hasn't changed yet. I guess he might change after years of hard work on himself,but the person that emerged from that process might want and need a completely clean slate

AnotherFineMess16 · 20/01/2016 18:02

The reason I'm posting here is to seek clarity. To have it spelled out in black and white the things that maybe I'm too blind to see. Believe it or not, I have thought about this a lot in recent weeks. It scares the life out of me. All of it. I need to decide what to do. Take a chance, a very big fucking chance evidently and believe him in that he can stay true to me and we have a proper, faithful relationship. Or walk away now, hurt and a bit devastated yes, but intact. And I KNOW how much of a shit he sounds when I write it all down... Oh, I don't know, I really don't.

OP posts:
YouGottaKeepEmSeparated · 20/01/2016 18:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Christinayangstwistedsista · 20/01/2016 18:04

Have you spent any teal time with thisman

Christinayangstwistedsista · 20/01/2016 18:04

Feckin kindle!

CheersMedea · 20/01/2016 18:05

Take a chance, a very big fucking chance evidently and believe him in that he can stay true to me and we have a proper, faithful relationship

You are not taking a chance as I've said. You are deciding whether you can live with this man, warts and infidelity all. That's the only decision.

Focusfocus · 20/01/2016 18:05

Let me grasp this -

He cheated with you. You cheated with him.

He cheated on you.

You are now cheating with him on your husband.

And you want opinions?

Wonderful.

JeNeSaisQoui · 20/01/2016 18:07

'Are we wrong for wanting to be together and have some sort of happiness for the rest of our days?'

No, 'we' can't be wrong or right for wanting to be together as it's very clearly an 'I' want.... If he wanted you as much as you want him then maybe the 'we' would apply, but it is patently (& painfully given how many other people's lives are caught up in this) clear that he doesn't want you.

It's so screamingly obvious yet you seem to be in utter denial and living in some kind of delusional fantasy land, it's really very very sad. I concur with every PP who has urged you to recognise the fact - FACT - that you clearly have self-esteem and co-dependency issues and you should commence therapy.

'He's my lobster... '

D'you actually know the meaning of that OP? It originates from the fact that lobsters mate & stay together for life, monogamously, no other lobster getting a look in.

IE the very opposite of what this creature is. He's not your lobster or anyone else's for that matter. What he IS though is a persistent and serial cheater - and that will NEVER change, no matter who he is with - who de facto does not give a toss about other people (his DC, his OH, you, let alone your child).

If for NO other reason than your loudly proclaimed love and 'to the death' protection of your child you must surely see you cannot ever have a 'future' with this creature..... As even if (& it's a bloody BIG 'if') he does leave his OH for you, at some point down the road it will be your child he is telling the next women is the reason for not being able to leave you immediately and who is then caught in the crossfire of your inevitable split.... And on the back of having already had to cope with the family split you are planning right now. YOU would be the one gifting your child that trauma and confusion, do you not see that?

And if you don't see that, then Lord know it's simply further proof that you really do very need urgent help (& I mean that kindly, not 'judgily').

OllyBJolly · 20/01/2016 18:07

Haven't RTFT.

Yes, you've done wrong but you now have the chance to change your life for the better and not repeat past mistakes. Do not go back to this relationship - and it is a massive step back.

Spend some time on your own. Learn to love and value yourself. You - and your child - are worth better than this.

Andthentherewasmum · 20/01/2016 18:07

Are you really listening though?

I think you need to get some counselling to work out why you can see things clearly for yourself.

Do you have low self esteem?

Do you really respect a man who behaves the way he does?

What do you actually think love is?

Christinayangstwistedsista · 20/01/2016 18:09

jenais

Excellent post

Twinklestein · 20/01/2016 18:09

Again, he could be lying. But really, why. Why would he be lying to me?

Erm because he's a liar and a cheat.

matchstickwoman · 20/01/2016 18:10

It feels like there are lots of judgmental people responding to your post. In order to offer another view – I had a special friend for 25 years. I met him when I was single, he had just got married. We both knew it was wrong but we pursued it anyway. The affair continued (on and off) throughout – he had kids, I got married kids too. 5 years ago my marriage broke up, for other reasons, but he was always there, in the background.

Wind forward to 2015, our children are grown up; left his wife and we are together. His wife has another partner and all our children accept our relationship. Things don’t always run smooth; there are lots of reasons why people don’t make the right decision, although it can feel like the right decision at the time.

But most importantly, we are happy.