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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

It's long, I'm so in the wrong, but I'm in a mess and need a place to talk...

424 replies

AnotherFineMess16 · 20/01/2016 15:34

... if you could see your way fit to let me and reach a hand into the flames that I suspect are about to engulf me. I'm ready.

Nobody knows any of this. Some people know some things, but nobody knows it all apart from me and him. I suppose I'm at the point now I need an outside, objective opinion from somebody who, yes, might judge, but will do so from a place of fairness and neutrality (I hope). I thank you in advance.

16 years ago, I embarked on an 2 year long affair. He was married, I was single. I was 24, he was 30. Yes, there were kids involved, I know it was wrong, but I did it. I have no excuses, unless love/infatuation/lust is one. There is no other. It was wrong, we were wrong, I knew it, he knew it, yet we did it. There is nothing I can do to change that now. Long story short, he left his then wife and we were together. About a year afterwards, he dumped me from a great height. Completely out of the blue and it devastated me. "Karma" I hear you cry? Maybe so, I don't believe in it particularly, but this was certainly payback. A couple of months later, he came to me to tell me that he had gotten another girl pregnant. The dates suggest that she was impregnated either very close to the end of our relationship or just before. I have never had the stomach to ask too many questions, we were over anyway and I was already in a very, very dark place and physically and mentally could not cope with any more at this point. I'm not exaggerating when I tell you that I was in pieces. He wanted me back several times thereafter, but I couldn't and wouldn't. And, as it does, life moved on and so did I eventually. We stayed in touch throughout the years. The odd text, mail or (drunken) phone call. Ashamed to say there were a few nights together in there too. He would always tell me he made the biggest mistake of his life letting me go. I agreed with him. There is huge back story about his now ex wife and family and their (justified) hatred of me that also led to him dumping me, but the buck stopped with him and he just didn't love me enough, no matter what he says. I, however, sap that I am, always loved him, but the damage was so done and so was I. The whole thing really scarred me.

9 years ago I met a man. A lovely, kind, responsible man who I respected and had a deep fondness for. I knew I didn't love him passionately but I knew he would never let me down. Our sex life was never very good, but being in whatever dillusional frame of mind I was at that time, I thought I could live without it and that there was much more to life than sex. I was 31. We eventually married. We did not have sex on our honeymoon. In fact, we very rarely had sex at all. I would never tell anyone or disaparage my husband IRL, but he was unable to perform most of the times we tried. We eventually stopped even trying nearly 4 years ago. We haven't been intimate since. We both decided we'd like a child together, so as I had my own 'wimmins' problems, we used that as our excuse to go for IVF. We were very lucky and successful and we now have one child. It doesn't take a genius to work out the next bit...

Enter original MM. We got back in touch, we met, we slept together 4 months ago. We have now met 9 more times (it would be more but we live a distance apart) and have spoken/text/mailed eachother every day since. And here comes the cliche and I can hear myself, I know what I sound like, a fuckin' stupid idiot, but I love him. And I believe he loves me. We want to be together, properly and just do it right this time. Although, I accept it's been a very shitty start. Shortly after this first meeting, I finally sat with my husband and told him what I should have done months if not years previously, that the marriage was over. I did not tell him about the OM. We are now separated, although we continue to live together until we can find a suitable place for him to move into. We will co-parent our child and we are amicable right now. Probably due, in no small part to the fact that he doesn't know about OM. I know that we would have separated soon, regardless of the OM entering my life again. I was a fool to think otherwise.

OM is in a LTR, however, they are also in separate bedrooms, he tells me. I do believe him, as gullible as that makes me sound. He has told me he will leave in the next 6 months but he wants to make the break as 'gentle' as possible. They have no children together, but she has 2, one of which is a teenager and lives with them. He feels responsibility towards this child as well as wanting to spare his partner as much as possible. I do not agree with his strategy, but it is his plan so I will leave him to do it. We have agreed to have no more meetings and very reduced contact for the coming months until such time as we are free to pursue a legitmate relationship.

God, I do love him but I don't know if I'll ever be able to fully trust him and I'm so worried I'm going to be hurt again. Yet, yet, yet, I can't seem to stop it. What am I even asking for here? From you? I don't know really. A big bucket of wake up and smell the coffee maybe? I'm a fucking mess. Are we completely selfish bastards? Are we wrong for wanting to be together and have some sort of happiness for the rest of our days? Can anyone out there, any of you, see any hope or happiness coming out of this? I'm not a fool, really. I know we're not some modern day Romeo and Juliette, I know there is no such thing as 'soul mates' but if there were, he seems to be mine. He's my lobster... Has anyone had anything similar happen? Maybe you could tell me how it turned out? OK. I'm braced. Thanks for reading.

OP posts:
moopymoodle · 21/01/2016 22:37

You left your DH due to sex life etc.. Yet you don't actually know what passion ls like in a norm relationship as you've only experienced the thrill of the chase From affairs mostly. That's not long lasting or sustainable, you should know that most of all as look at OM.. chasing the highs of infatuation with the forbidden fruit, whatever he obtains he discards for the next forbidden fruit.

It sounds like you both have some sort of fantasy that can only be lived out from longing. I doubt you will seem very appealing to him on thr sideline waiting for him, he will lose interest.

springydaffs · 21/01/2016 23:41

Hand on heart, why do you think you've lost a stone?

I'm going with excitement.

CheersMedea · 22/01/2016 12:14

Felloutofbed

^What has helped me too most definitely is a decade of complete non
contact too. . . I know without a doubt that he could worm his way back into my brain . . .I would never ever allow him to get close enough to me to get back into my brain ever again.^

This is exactly what I was saying.

The sense of your post is not "I'm over him" but "I manage my problem with him by staying away from him" because you know if you allowed it, he'd lure you back in. (ie. you might have dealt with the problem in practical terms but in emotional terms it is just buried and managed but still there).

This goes back to my addiction point. It seems to me women who have these Toxic Magnet Men in their lives (and it always seems to be one man per woman, one single fixation on the "perfect" triggering man) can't actual ever get over it.

By which I mean, all feelings gone. It always seems to be suppressed and managed. Like (from what I read about drug and alcohol addiction), you never really get over wanting a drink or wanting drugs or that addictive relationship. Where you get to is never drinking, never taking drugs and suppressing that relationship. But you know that if you had one drink, you'd be back where you were.

I think it's interesting that no one has posted to say "I totally got over this type of on/off/toxic recycler relationship with a Narcissist/sociopath/bastard man I was obsessed with"

Kr1stina · 22/01/2016 12:34

i think it's interesting that no one has posted to say "I totally got over this type of on/off/toxic recycler relationship with a Narcissist/sociopath/bastard man I was obsessed with"

Well they might not have posted on this thread, probably due to the title. But I see loads of posts on the Relationships Board where women talk about how they managed to leave a toxic relationship, how hard it was and how much better their life is now .

And on other Boards , there are women who lost their health, their jobs, their homes , their families and sometimes even their children because they would not /could not walk away from a destructive relationship .

And there are many MANY posts from women whose childhoods were destroyed because of their parents toxic relationships.

I think it's unhelpful and damaging to portray these unhealthy obsessions as some kind of all powerful force that we silly women are helpless against . That its some form of pure love that can't be resisted . Love isn't some mushy feeling in your heart ( unless you are 15) . It's about acting in a loving way towards someone , considering their best interests as well as your own .

FellOutOfBedTwice · 22/01/2016 16:34

I'm not sure that is what I meant- perhaps I worded it badly. I'm definitely over it. I'm happily married and have children and a whole different life now- I don't spend much time in my day to day life angsting over what was- although a significant relationship in my life- a short period really. What I meant was that I would NOT have been able to get over him had I not cut him off entirely. Despite the fact he was a fucker we got on very well, eating later each other intellectually and he made me laugh and he was keen to have some remainder of friendship/ongoing communication, but it couldn't have worked. I could not have know him and got on with my life. No way. I needed him entirely gone. It was the only way and I think is the only way for OP.

FellOutOfBedTwice · 22/01/2016 16:35

Stimulating not "eating later"!!!!

Serenelight · 23/01/2016 06:52

This is your chance to get free of him. Block all contact. He is no good for you. You will never be happy with him. You know this. Get counseling. Do not stay in touch with him. Be strong.

PitPatKitKat · 23/01/2016 08:29

OP, you do need to take real responsibility for some of what has gone on.

You are not a passive, helpless victim in this. An affair with an MM when young and stupid- not great but not insurmountable if you'd grown up after you saw the hurt that caused.

Using some kind of irresistible doomed love/man with a magnetic personality as an excuse for this is only going to hold you back. You will get seriously hurt if you don't wake up to this pronto. Other people already have been.

And if you would never do anything that could hurt your child, you wouldn't have had an affair and betrayed her father in that way whatever his shortcomings in your eyes.

CheersMedea · 08/02/2016 09:56

I saw this

www.notonthehighstreet.com/eatmycake/product/lobster-biscuit

and it made me think of this thread.

unhelpful off point post but cute biscuit huh?

Aussiemum78 · 08/02/2016 10:08

It's real, but it's not love.

It's limerance. An obsessive infatuation.

It's very hard to get over and you need no contact with him.

Leave your husband and learn to be happy with yourself.

Eddmr · 08/02/2016 12:31

OP. Normally a lurker here but thought that I would post. I was kind of in your position. Met MM. He left his wife and children for me. Then went back. He left again, then went back. This went on for 6 years. Finally he left for good as we got our 'happy ever after'. 10 years of marriage, 2 children. Did I ever trust him? NO. Was I right to not trust him? YES. Last year I found out that he had been having an affair for 2 years and he is now with the OW. Broken. Just like his first wife is. I regret everything about the relationship. Even my children. Do not end up like me. He has turned me into a very bitter woman. You will NEVER EVER trust him. It will eat away at you.

Iamdobby63 · 08/02/2016 17:58

Dear OP, I'm sorry you have been on the receiving end of some responses.

Really you have answered your own questions regarding this fella, it's up to you whether you offer yourself up to being let down again.

Have you considered that he sees you as his 'comfort zone' - always there and available to make him feel good about himself.

Regarding your husband unless he is hurt and questioning the reasons why you are divorcing then I don't see any benefit of going out of your way to tell him, so long as you are not seeing the other guy whilst you are divorcing of course. That would be something else altogether.

My advice is to take time and just be by yourself, don't have any contact with this other guy, if he leaves his GF then review it then but I really don't understand why it would take 6 months for him to leave!

Angieyy1 · 08/02/2016 21:50

Your husband does not deserve to be hurt and he deserves to be happy and if you can't give him that then set him free. if he loves you and wants to be with you then telling him will destroy him as a divorce alone will be bad enough.

You may be chasing a thrill of a fantasy and that's all it is .... You see this all the time Iv seen it before and you will be the one who ends up heartbroken and quiet possibly on your own..

.. Your husband will move on and have a stable relationship and you will still be chasing the fantasy still

PrincessBooBoo · 08/02/2016 23:06

I can't imagine what his first set of his children are going to feel about you now 16 years down the line?? After all, they will be fully functioning adults now, probably with a fully working mouth to tell you some home truths...I wouldn't touch this cheating pig if you paid me. Stick with the nice man you chose to marry and have a child with.

nevertakeyouriphoneinthebath · 01/03/2016 03:34

>>>OM is in a LTR, however, they are also in separate bedrooms, he tells me

Hahahahahaha. Ok. I've stopped laughing now. Come off it! You can't seriously believe this can you.

why are people always so totally unable or unwilling to believe that relationships can and do get to the point where there is little or no sex over many months or even years? The OP herself has said she has been in a sexless marriage and had a sex life with her H that never properly got off the ground at all. I have known many couples like that although few people like to openly admit it until things break down. People on MN tell similar tales all the time, yet when we are told by a poster that her MM no longer has sex with his wife all we hear are hoots of derision.

I'm not defending him or her, or anyone. I have no idea whether he is telling the truth or not, I'm sure plenty of serial shaggers do lie about that but I certainly don't automatically assume that the MM is always lying about the sex. Besides, the breakdown of a regular happy sexual relationship is one of the biggest factors for making an unhappy partner look elsewhere in the first place, so why do we refuse to believe it's true when we are told it?

If my DH told another woman that we had had hardly any sex for several years he'd be telling the God's honest truth!

BunnyTyler · 01/03/2016 03:53

You write like a teenager.
You act like a teenager.
You are utterly self absorbed like a teenager.

Grow the fuck up.

Or better still, why don't you contact Jezza Kyle?
He could do 'the all important lie detector'.
Or something.
I don't know.
I don't care.

You are so desperately needy that any attention is good attention - even to the point that you'll throw yourself prostrate on the ground begging for a flaming.

Plan of action:

  1. Stop lying to people
  2. Put your child before your sex life
  3. Stop with the "Dear Diary" bullshit writing style.
Poshsausage · 01/03/2016 04:17

He is laughing at you .

Oh and limerence.

nevertakeyouriphoneinthebath · 01/03/2016 04:23

I agree it's classic limerence, the OP is still fixated on being dumped the first time and can't get past wanting to conquer him finally to prove to herself and him that he loved her all along. But he sounds like one of those fickle men who is in love with the drama of being in love with someone he can't have. He loves the chase and the ego boost of being adored. As soon as it becomes easy he'll be bored, and off again.

He has this chance to finally show her they belong together by telling his partner and moving out immediately. The fact that he wants to do it slowly is not about doing it 'gently' for the partner, it's about him. He's not really sure. He's hedging his bets. He's just enjoying being given a chance to think about it while having lots of sex.

AnotherFineMess16 · 01/03/2016 09:50

As this has been resurrected, I thought I should give an update. Firstly, many thanks to Offred, who pointed me in the right direction. I've been doing a lot of reading around Narcissistic Personality Disorder and have come to the painful conclusion that my 'lobster' is in fact a Narc, or certainly possesses many of the traits associated. He is beyond saving and will never, ever be able to give me what I want or be the man I thought he was. I am devestated. We are no longer in contact. We have not seen eachother since early January and our texting/phonecalls have stopped. I think he will try to contact me again, 'hoovering' seems to be the modus operandi of the Narc, but I will not play any more. I keep reading, reading, reading about this disorder, telling myself what he is and how he will never, ever be able to be in a proper, faithful relationship. The thought that it's 'him' and not 'me' is a surprisingly comforting thought and one that is keeping me strong.

Beyond this, I am no innocent in all of this mess and have begun to work on myself and am trying to get to the root of why I have done the things I've done. I won't go into the details, but there are things, mostly related to my childhood that seem to have made me a sitting target for this type of man and have made my own sense of worth less than it should be. I'm deeply ashamed of myself and of everything I have done. But I'm working on getting better, getting past all of this mortifying mess and 'growing up' as I've been advised to so often here.

My ex and I continue to be on good terms. Our daughter continues to thrive and is my priority.

I can't claim to be all better just yet. I'm pretty devastated truth be told. But I know I'll be ok. My appetite has returned and I'm trying to keep busy. In quiet times, in the car, in bed at night etc, I sometimes feel that my heart might break. I really loved him, you know? I can't change that. But I know he can't be mine, he hasn't got it in him, so I will continue to love him from afar while trying to come to terms that the man I love doesn't actually exist... It's hard, but this too shall pass.

Thanks once again for all the advice and support. You pointed me in the right direction and for that I'm grateful.

OP posts:
Offred · 01/03/2016 09:58

This sounds like good progress. I'm happy you are not in contact. Recovering from a relationship with someone who has these traits is a really difficult and long process but you'll be so much better for it in the end!

I'm sorry it is painful just now but you are correct, the man you loved is not who he really is.

AnotherFineMess16 · 01/03/2016 10:09

Thanks Offred. Onwards and upwards. You're not wrong, it is very difficult. I'm so tired of the thinking, the ruminating and the obsessing. It's aged me 10 years, I swear. I seem to have a permanent stress headache lately. I've tried the rubber band technique you mentioned upthread, twang the band every time I think about him, but my wrists were raw after a couple of hours so I had to stop! I only hope and pray it goes away soon. I mean, I know I will be ok, it still hurts though. I wish I'd never met him. But maybe if not him I would have fallen for another of his ilk? Who knows. I know I have a lot of work to do on me too, to understand why I did the things I did. Once again, I owe you a debt for your help. Although I know you probably think me weak and horrible, you never made me feel that way Flowers

OP posts:
ILoveACornishPasty · 01/03/2016 10:26

If you had no child, I would say do whatever your heart tells you is right. I am not going to shout from the moral high ground because you know what you've done is pretty shitty.

However, when you took the huge decision to have a child, you chose-I hope-for the needs of your daughter to come above everything else. I'm afraid bringing a serial cheater into her life, and being a serial cheater yourself is not the calm and steady life style that she deserves. You may say 'oh we would never do it again' but, as much as life is never guaranteed, using the law of averages it's pretty likely that one or both of you will cheat again and subject your poor daughter to further upheaval. The situation you're in is all your own making but your daughter gets no say. Step up as a parent and do what's right for her, not what's right for your loins.

Offred · 01/03/2016 16:36

I don't think you weak and horrible at all! No judgey pants here!

Keep on keeping on!

Flowers
Claraoswald36 · 01/03/2016 17:49

The only positive here is that you left your dh. Otherwise just wow. I imagine your children are your top priority. Like any decent mother.

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