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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

It's long, I'm so in the wrong, but I'm in a mess and need a place to talk...

424 replies

AnotherFineMess16 · 20/01/2016 15:34

... if you could see your way fit to let me and reach a hand into the flames that I suspect are about to engulf me. I'm ready.

Nobody knows any of this. Some people know some things, but nobody knows it all apart from me and him. I suppose I'm at the point now I need an outside, objective opinion from somebody who, yes, might judge, but will do so from a place of fairness and neutrality (I hope). I thank you in advance.

16 years ago, I embarked on an 2 year long affair. He was married, I was single. I was 24, he was 30. Yes, there were kids involved, I know it was wrong, but I did it. I have no excuses, unless love/infatuation/lust is one. There is no other. It was wrong, we were wrong, I knew it, he knew it, yet we did it. There is nothing I can do to change that now. Long story short, he left his then wife and we were together. About a year afterwards, he dumped me from a great height. Completely out of the blue and it devastated me. "Karma" I hear you cry? Maybe so, I don't believe in it particularly, but this was certainly payback. A couple of months later, he came to me to tell me that he had gotten another girl pregnant. The dates suggest that she was impregnated either very close to the end of our relationship or just before. I have never had the stomach to ask too many questions, we were over anyway and I was already in a very, very dark place and physically and mentally could not cope with any more at this point. I'm not exaggerating when I tell you that I was in pieces. He wanted me back several times thereafter, but I couldn't and wouldn't. And, as it does, life moved on and so did I eventually. We stayed in touch throughout the years. The odd text, mail or (drunken) phone call. Ashamed to say there were a few nights together in there too. He would always tell me he made the biggest mistake of his life letting me go. I agreed with him. There is huge back story about his now ex wife and family and their (justified) hatred of me that also led to him dumping me, but the buck stopped with him and he just didn't love me enough, no matter what he says. I, however, sap that I am, always loved him, but the damage was so done and so was I. The whole thing really scarred me.

9 years ago I met a man. A lovely, kind, responsible man who I respected and had a deep fondness for. I knew I didn't love him passionately but I knew he would never let me down. Our sex life was never very good, but being in whatever dillusional frame of mind I was at that time, I thought I could live without it and that there was much more to life than sex. I was 31. We eventually married. We did not have sex on our honeymoon. In fact, we very rarely had sex at all. I would never tell anyone or disaparage my husband IRL, but he was unable to perform most of the times we tried. We eventually stopped even trying nearly 4 years ago. We haven't been intimate since. We both decided we'd like a child together, so as I had my own 'wimmins' problems, we used that as our excuse to go for IVF. We were very lucky and successful and we now have one child. It doesn't take a genius to work out the next bit...

Enter original MM. We got back in touch, we met, we slept together 4 months ago. We have now met 9 more times (it would be more but we live a distance apart) and have spoken/text/mailed eachother every day since. And here comes the cliche and I can hear myself, I know what I sound like, a fuckin' stupid idiot, but I love him. And I believe he loves me. We want to be together, properly and just do it right this time. Although, I accept it's been a very shitty start. Shortly after this first meeting, I finally sat with my husband and told him what I should have done months if not years previously, that the marriage was over. I did not tell him about the OM. We are now separated, although we continue to live together until we can find a suitable place for him to move into. We will co-parent our child and we are amicable right now. Probably due, in no small part to the fact that he doesn't know about OM. I know that we would have separated soon, regardless of the OM entering my life again. I was a fool to think otherwise.

OM is in a LTR, however, they are also in separate bedrooms, he tells me. I do believe him, as gullible as that makes me sound. He has told me he will leave in the next 6 months but he wants to make the break as 'gentle' as possible. They have no children together, but she has 2, one of which is a teenager and lives with them. He feels responsibility towards this child as well as wanting to spare his partner as much as possible. I do not agree with his strategy, but it is his plan so I will leave him to do it. We have agreed to have no more meetings and very reduced contact for the coming months until such time as we are free to pursue a legitmate relationship.

God, I do love him but I don't know if I'll ever be able to fully trust him and I'm so worried I'm going to be hurt again. Yet, yet, yet, I can't seem to stop it. What am I even asking for here? From you? I don't know really. A big bucket of wake up and smell the coffee maybe? I'm a fucking mess. Are we completely selfish bastards? Are we wrong for wanting to be together and have some sort of happiness for the rest of our days? Can anyone out there, any of you, see any hope or happiness coming out of this? I'm not a fool, really. I know we're not some modern day Romeo and Juliette, I know there is no such thing as 'soul mates' but if there were, he seems to be mine. He's my lobster... Has anyone had anything similar happen? Maybe you could tell me how it turned out? OK. I'm braced. Thanks for reading.

OP posts:
QuiteLikely5 · 21/01/2016 09:40

Offred I agree op has a primary attachment to this OM hence the pain she experienced on him leaving but what is the point in attacking the validity of her marriage.

It happened, it was real and they tried, maybe not hard enough for some.........

Offred · 21/01/2016 09:41

You can want to have sex with more than one person but what you describe IMO is a primary attachment to OM and sabotage of yourself and your marriage as a result.

Offred · 21/01/2016 09:42

The point is if she doesn't address the reality of what has happened I don't see how she will move forward. The cognitive dissonance allows you to maintain being 'stuck' and feeling you have no control over your actions.

Plus I think it would be cruel to allow her h to believe he ruined their marriage by being sexually inadequate - that isn't the truth.

AnotherFineMess16 · 21/01/2016 09:44

I accept that you seem to know more about this sort of thing than me, Offred. I wish I'd been aware of all of this before. I really do. So, tell me. How do I 'cure' myself of this primary attachment to OM. I want to be free of this knot in my stomach. I just want it to be fucking over, all of it. I'm so sick and tired of it. This is not healthy, it's fucking not. My head's a mess.

And thank you Quitelikey.

OP posts:
Offred · 21/01/2016 09:45

Without addressing the reality she will be drawn right back to OM because of the idea of having unfinished business with him. The unfinished business is dealing with his appalling treatment of her many many years ago IMO.

QuiteLikely5 · 21/01/2016 09:45

She has admitted her foolishness in marrying this man. I know nothing about cognitive dissonance so I will bow out now Blush

Offred · 21/01/2016 09:48

It's not blame or judgement btw.

I think you need a real explanation for yourself about what has happened so that you are able to break free and recover.

OM treated you like absolute shit. The relationship really damaged you. You have not acted consciously in perpetuating that damage and poisoning your life since IMO but if you can reconnect with reality - that he treated you like shit, that you have been in the grip of avoiding dealing with the effect that had on you and that you are in control and can recover I think you will find the strength you need and it will help you move forward, even help your co-parenting with h.

CauliflowerBalti · 21/01/2016 09:49

Also. My husband left me for another woman. They had been seeing each other for months. He's now married to her. He still flirts with me. I don't believe cheaters can fundamentally change. They can try - but it's a question of willpower. Resisting what you want. Like some people can eat healthily and moderately all their lives while the rest of swing between binge and starvation diets. I can diet for so long but my inner Cookie Monster will always out. His inner cheat will always out.

At the time my husband left, he denied the affair. Still does, even though his friends removed their alibis and I had found messages from her. My friends and family were outraged! He's making a fool of you! But I didn't care. That conversation didn't be to be had. We broke up because we weren't right for each other. I never once blamed the other woman, not really. I resented that her children were getting what mine wasn't - a father - but not her stealing him away. Our marriage was wrong. I don't think it will help your stbxh to tell him anything, not really.

I really hope you manage to hold on to the resolve you have now.

QuiteLikely5 · 21/01/2016 09:49

Op if you can't believe the words you hear from OM look at his actions. They will tell you the truth.

Offred · 21/01/2016 09:49

I don't think it was as simple as foolishness TBH.

MoominPie22 · 21/01/2016 09:49

Another I´m glad you´ve seen the light and you´re knocking this affair on the head. Maybe you will have to cut all contact with the OM if he still messages you from time to time? Just incase there are any moments of potential weakness in the future....best to get rid of any temptation altogether.

Do you think you would even have started up again with the OM if you´d had a fulfilling marriage and sex life with your husband? Maybe you just went after what you were lacking both physically and emotionally?

I think the OM must have been living the life of Reilly with more sex than he could shake a stick at, but all it did was feed his ego and raise false hopes for you. It´s good you´re taking this time to reflect, and as long as you can keep the OM in the past and stick to your guns you´ll be OK.

Concentrate on yours and your daughter´s life now and going forward. I´m sure you´ll meet a suitable man that you can be happy with and who will fulfill all of your needs in the future. There are SO many decent men out there, you just need to stay away from the tossers! Best wishes Flowers

expatinscotland · 21/01/2016 09:52

'It was never a real marriage'. You married this person. You have a child together, but are still using 'It was never a real marriage' to justify not telling him the truth.

I guess some people never really grow up.

Offred · 21/01/2016 09:54

cognitive dissonance can protect you from psychological pain. It's a maladaptive coping mechanism.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if reading the Lundy Bancroft book you recognised OM in there. Or if doing the freedom program helped.

I suspect OM has some narc traits TBH and getting over a narc relationship is very hard.

QuiteLikely5 · 21/01/2016 09:57

If he was a changed man would he really be cheating on his partner right now?

He tries to tell himself he is decent because he is staying there a few more months to help with her child.....not true if he truly cared about the child he just wouldn't do this at all

He seems to have no staying power.....,relationships get boring , tired, need nurturing but he doesn't seem to know that or want to attempt those things

Offred · 21/01/2016 09:57

Self blame allows you to feel in control. Your behaviour has caused some harm but you need to take the appropriate level of responsibility to be able to make things right for you and others, which comes from understanding yourself, not OM.

Cailindana made some good posts at the beginning of this thread I seem to remember.

AnotherFineMess16 · 21/01/2016 10:03

Expat, you know what I mean by that, I know you do. But just in case, let me explain. Yes, of course it was a 'real marriage' in the legal sense and in the way I walked up the aisle and in the way we decided to have a child. It was. There were lots of good things in the early years together. We laughed, we confided, we supported and we took care of eachother. That is absolutely some aspects of a marriage and a good one at that. However, we, and I really mean this, barely, barely, consumated that marriage. Every night for the past number of years, we co-parent in the evening, we put the wee one to bed, he goes to one room, I go to another, we eat separately, we then go to separate rooms to sleep. That, imo, is not a real marriage. And neither of us, not just me, neither of us did anything to change it. We talked about it, we said, yes, we should sort this out, but we didn't. It's beyond repair. Recognising this and walking away is the grown up thing to do, I believe. You will have your own thoughts, I'm sure. But if you could take a minute and imagine living like that, would you consider this scenario a 'real marriage'?

MoominPie, that's an interesting question. And off the back of Offred's observatoins, I'm not so sure any more. Maybe it wouldn't have worked, irrespective if the sex had been there or not. Maybe the OM or rather the affects of that horrible experience scarred me too much and I was never able to move on properly. I'll never know now. When I met my husband, it was all so comfortable and easy and without stress or worry (or excitement or passion), and I thought, yes, this is what a relationship should be. So I went ahead and married him. I'm under no illusions that I was the greatest passion in his life either btw, I seriously doubt it. Fuck I'm waffling now. Anyway, long story short, I was wrong.

Quitelikely - yes, I'm really focussing on actions over words now. All the silver tongued bullshit in the world means nothing. I know that.

Cauliflower, thank you. I really, really hope I have it in me to hang tough too. I need to find my self respect. It's in there somewhere, I just need to find it.

OP posts:
AnotherFineMess16 · 21/01/2016 10:05

Thanks, Offred. It's been very useful. God, I came into this thinking I was in a problem situation. Turns out, I'm the problem! Funnily enough, it isn't news. I think you're absolutely spot on. I never, ever got over that experience. I know that. I need to sort my shit out.

OP posts:
Offred · 21/01/2016 10:08

Both are true. You are in a problem situation but it is caused by things inside yourself. It won't be solved by getting anything from OM or having any contact with him at all IMO. Having any contact with him at all will keep you 'stuck'.

That should eventually be a helpful realisation because it means you already have everything you need to move forward inside yourself. You are not dependent on getting anything from him.

AvaCrowder · 21/01/2016 10:09

I think you got in touch with him.

He shagged you because he could.

He doesn't want to leave his girlfriend, and has suggested limited contact as an easy way to dump you.

When you did contact him he revised his sleeping in separate beds story to get rid of you.

You are demented have lost a stone etc because deep down you know you've been used by this man again.

Delete and block him to save yourself from yourself.

Waltermittythesequel · 21/01/2016 10:10

I have been a severe critic on your thread, I know that. Just as I knew he was full of shit and here you are.

However, I don't think you are doing anything wrong by ending your marriage and I certainly wouldn't tell your ex. No good can come of that.

I'm going to stick up for you now; a lot of people probably don't know the damage living in a sexless marriage can do, especially when you're not the one lacking the drive or ability.

It can be absolutely devestating and I don't think telling OP that it's partly her fault either by directly saying it or implying it, is necessary.

It's also untrue. Her dh decided to stop trying. That's not her fault it's his.

Offred · 21/01/2016 10:11

From the sounds of it your h was also in your marriage for his own reasons. It was you who ended it, that was the right thing to do.

IrianofWay · 21/01/2016 10:22

"Just let me say that he has absolutely treated me like shit over the years"

"I do think he loves me. And I do think he wants to be with me"

The first statement makes the other two irrelevant. Sorry. Love isn't love when it causes that much hurt and chaos. Do you not think he 'loved' his wife, the other girl he cheated with and got pregnant? Do you want that kind of love?

Offred · 21/01/2016 10:28

Obviously it is complete bullshit to diagnose anyone with anything over the Internet and from someone else's description of them but what makes me wonder if he has narc traits is your description of his lack of real empathy demonstrated by his casual lies, his casual use of women who he seems to discard and his inability to form any stable LTR, your contact with him ever since your relationship and inspite of his other relationships, and your deep fixation on him being 'the one' despite knowing he treated you really badly.

It may help you to read about narcissism and being a source of narcissistic supply immaterial of any real personality disorders he may or may not be able to be diagnosed with by proper means.

Offred · 21/01/2016 10:30

Whatever happens you need to start seeing him as a bad guy who is really bad for you.

AnotherFineMess16 · 21/01/2016 10:43

Offred, thanks again. Really. You've invested a lot of time and thought in this and it's very much appreciated. I will look into everything you've mentioned. And you're last sentence is probably the place I'm going to start. He is a bad guy who is really bad for me. I need to start believing it, really believing it. The evidence is all there.

OP posts: