It's long, I'm so in the wrong, but I'm in a mess and need a place to talk...

[AnotherFineMess16]

... if you could see your way fit to let me and reach a hand into the flames that I suspect are about to engulf me. I'm ready.

Nobody knows any of this. Some people know some things, but nobody knows it all apart from me and him. I suppose I'm at the point now I need an outside, objective opinion from somebody who, yes, might judge, but will do so from a place of fairness and neutrality (I hope). I thank you in advance.

16 years ago, I embarked on an 2 year long affair. He was married, I was single. I was 24, he was 30. Yes, there were kids involved, I know it was wrong, but I did it. I have no excuses, unless love/infatuation/lust is one. There is no other. It was wrong, we were wrong, I knew it, he knew it, yet we did it. There is nothing I can do to change that now. Long story short, he left his then wife and we were together. About a year afterwards, he dumped me from a great height. Completely out of the blue and it devastated me. "Karma" I hear you cry? Maybe so, I don't believe in it particularly, but this was certainly payback. A couple of months later, he came to me to tell me that he had gotten another girl pregnant. The dates suggest that she was impregnated either very close to the end of our relationship or just before. I have never had the stomach to ask too many questions, we were over anyway and I was already in a very, very dark place and physically and mentally could not cope with any more at this point. I'm not exaggerating when I tell you that I was in pieces. He wanted me back several times thereafter, but I couldn't and wouldn't. And, as it does, life moved on and so did I eventually. We stayed in touch throughout the years. The odd text, mail or (drunken) phone call. Ashamed to say there were a few nights together in there too. He would always tell me he made the biggest mistake of his life letting me go. I agreed with him. There is huge back story about his now ex wife and family and their (justified) hatred of me that also led to him dumping me, but the buck stopped with him and he just didn't love me enough, no matter what he says. I, however, sap that I am, always loved him, but the damage was so done and so was I. The whole thing really scarred me.

9 years ago I met a man. A lovely, kind, responsible man who I respected and had a deep fondness for. I knew I didn't love him passionately but I knew he would never let me down. Our sex life was never very good, but being in whatever dillusional frame of mind I was at that time, I thought I could live without it and that there was much more to life than sex. I was 31. We eventually married. We did not have sex on our honeymoon. In fact, we very rarely had sex at all. I would never tell anyone or disaparage my husband IRL, but he was unable to perform most of the times we tried. We eventually stopped even trying nearly 4 years ago. We haven't been intimate since. We both decided we'd like a child together, so as I had my own 'wimmins' problems, we used that as our excuse to go for IVF. We were very lucky and successful and we now have one child. It doesn't take a genius to work out the next bit...

Enter original MM. We got back in touch, we met, we slept together 4 months ago. We have now met 9 more times (it would be more but we live a distance apart) and have spoken/text/mailed eachother every day since. And here comes the cliche and I can hear myself, I know what I sound like, a fuckin' stupid idiot, but I love him. And I believe he loves me. We want to be together, properly and just do it right this time. Although, I accept it's been a very shitty start. Shortly after this first meeting, I finally sat with my husband and told him what I should have done months if not years previously, that the marriage was over. I did not tell him about the OM. We are now separated, although we continue to live together until we can find a suitable place for him to move into. We will co-parent our child and we are amicable right now. Probably due, in no small part to the fact that he doesn't know about OM. I know that we would have separated soon, regardless of the OM entering my life again. I was a fool to think otherwise.

OM is in a LTR, however, they are also in separate bedrooms, he tells me. I do believe him, as gullible as that makes me sound. He has told me he will leave in the next 6 months but he wants to make the break as 'gentle' as possible. They have no children together, but she has 2, one of which is a teenager and lives with them. He feels responsibility towards this child as well as wanting to spare his partner as much as possible. I do not agree with his strategy, but it is his plan so I will leave him to do it. We have agreed to have no more meetings and very reduced contact for the coming months until such time as we are free to pursue a legitmate relationship.

God, I do love him but I don't know if I'll ever be able to fully trust him and I'm so worried I'm going to be hurt again. Yet, yet, yet, I can't seem to stop it. What am I even asking for here? From you? I don't know really. A big bucket of wake up and smell the coffee maybe? I'm a fucking mess. Are we completely selfish bastards? Are we wrong for wanting to be together and have some sort of happiness for the rest of our days? Can anyone out there, any of you, see any hope or happiness coming out of this? I'm not a fool, really. I know we're not some modern day Romeo and Juliette, I know there is no such thing as 'soul mates' but if there were, he seems to be mine. He's my lobster... Has anyone had anything similar happen? Maybe you could tell me how it turned out? OK. I'm braced. Thanks for reading.

Lobsters are a fiver at Lidl these days

I know a man like this. He flits about. Sometimes I think maybe this is it, he's finally settled with this gf. But sure enough another drunken phonecall, lets go for a drink. Have some self respect. He's never going to commit to anybody in the long term. He's probably got a few like you in the wings. I know mine has. He has a desperate need to have his ego massaged. He does that by the thrill of the chase. Don't be dragged in.

Yes, blu where is her baby?
I bet there are more babies too.
I think the lust and novelty will soon wear thin with all his different kids turning up all the time
Maybe that could be the next book?:o

The reality is when these lust filled affairs turn into real life, mundane. It all becomes a bit boring. He'll have bugger all money as well paying for all those kids and exes and what not.

I personally couldn't be bothered.

I do think reading your posts that perhaps you aren't accepting the reality of your situation and that of the other people involved . It's almost as though you are writing about someone else.

Just enjoy time on your own finding out who you are X

Oh OP

This is such a sad thread. For a few reasons

1. most important, your vehement belief that your DC is your priority and she will be protected / insulated from this.
   Whatever this thing is that you have (I refuse to call it love, because quite simply put this isn't even close to what love looks like to me) will have consequences that will impact your DC. Because they will impact you.

2. that you think this is love
   It isn't. It's an addiction to the extremes of emotions (highs and lows). It's an anchor to see you through a divorce.

3. that you honestly think he won't cheat on you
   Honey, he already is. And believe you me, he's not staying celibate for the next 6 months while he gives you 'space'

You've normalised this really quite dysfunctional relationship. Just like you normalised your marriage (which was also dysfunctional as it wasn't meeting your needs).
You need to recognise that for whatever reason you have built a mecanism that allows to take extreme situations that 95% of people would go at and yet you think is ok.

I know because I've been there.

You absolutely need therapy. I did CBT to try and understand why I did what I did and more importantly the steps I needed to take to stop doing it. You cannot pass this behaviour onto your child. Do something about it

Oh OP

This is such a sad thread. For a few reasons

1. most important, your vehement belief that your DC is your priority and she will be protected / insulated from this.
   Whatever this thing is that you have (I refuse to call it love, because quite simply put this isn't even close to what love looks like to me) will have consequences that will impact your DC. Because they will impact you.

2. that you think this is love
   It isn't. It's an addiction to the extremes of emotions (highs and lows). It's an anchor to see you through a divorce.

3. that you honestly think he won't cheat on you
   Honey, he already is. And believe you me, he's not staying celibate for the next 6 months while he gives you 'space'

You've normalised this really quite dysfunctional relationship. Just like you normalised your marriage (which was also dysfunctional as it wasn't meeting your needs).
You need to recognise that for whatever reason you have built a mecanism that allows to take extreme situations that 95% of people would go at and yet you think is ok.

I know because I've been there.

You absolutely need therapy. I did CBT to try and understand why I did what I did and more importantly the steps I needed to take to stop doing it. You cannot pass this behaviour onto your child. Do something about it

You have three things to consider IMO;

1. What is in the best interests of your dd? To be dragged into a relationship with someone who has a proven track record of being a shit to every woman he has ever been with because you think you can change him, or for you to finally let go of said man and actually focus on trying to move on with your life?

1. If you get with this man your h will realise that his relationship with you was over before it began because he was only a distraction all along and he may well suspect you of having an affair the whole time you were married, which you did, it just wasn't always sexual.

You therefore need to decide when and how it would be best for him to discover this information, given that you will always both be parents to your daughter and you expect to give a relationship with him another try.

1. What is in your interests, to trust that this man will be true to his word finally and that you will end up happy or to not bother taking the risk?

There is very little in this situation that is helped by looking at it romantically.

i think the only thing that needs to be said is this.

He is a serial cheat.

He will cheat on you again.

Is the heartache, heartbreak and chaos losing him to someone else, AGAIN, worth it?

You are worth more than that.

Walk Away.

Op, sadly for you I think the decision about how this will all pan out is not in your hands.

You will wait the 6 months, you'll see him a bit here and there because you know you're just so in love and all that, and then after the 6 months there'll be some other reason he can't be with you.

As for him not wanting to leave the current partner, he has no kids, is not married, so for all intents and purposes it should be an 'easy' spilt but give him the benefit of the doubt ok he'd prefer to do it gently because well that's the type of guy he is. Except it isn't. He left a marriage and children to be with you before. He's more than capable of shitting on his own wife and leaving his kids if he really wants to, but he can't leave someone he's not married to, has no kids with, is not even sleeping in the same bed as?

He has you dancing to a mighty fine tune indeed.

I think the best outcome would truly be if his 'let me have 6 months to leave her' was in fact him dumping you and if you never hear from him again TBH.

Go and get professional help. You were young and impressionable at 24. A married man of 30 wanted a bit of fun and his "fun" was you. You are no longer 24 & are a mom. You screwed up massively but your past doesn't always have to dictate your future.

Be on your own, do what you have to do in order to totally eradicate this toxic and nasty selfish man. Change your telephone numbers, email addresses etc etc.

Or you could ignore all our advice. Get with him and lead a very unhappy and unhealthy life from here on. Full of regrets and wonderings.

He too needs help. He's an addict.

You need to seek professional help OP. You are going round and round in toxic relationships.
Your self esteem must be quite low to allow yourself to be suckered in by this man and for you to allow yourself to also treat your husband like this.
Generally people who cheat have low opinions of themselves.
You need to get some pride, some sass and kick his ass to the kerb. I feel desperately sorry for your husband and I wish the best to both of you. But you my dear need to work on yourself first and learn to love yourself before getting into any other relationship.

he likes you better when both of you are in other relationships. This will never have a happy ending,op.

You are so kidding yourself op.

He says 'I need 6 months to leave her gently' yeah right and what do you do? You dismantle your marriage, tell yourself it was dead in the water and the right thing to do anyway. But that's not the truth: you dismantled your marriage to be ready for golden balls. And your marriage lost its core when you shagged the cheat.

It is so pathetic to hear you genuinely thinking you two are going to ride off into the sunset, together at last. He CHEATS op, over and over and over. He's cheating now, he has always cheated. He will always cheat, he will go on to cheat. As cheers says, that is certain.

What isn't pathetic is your daughter. You snarled when she was mentioned upthread but I genuinely don't see you putting her first - she comes a dim second to this (deluded) grand passion. You said a few posts back 'this is about me now and what I'm going to do'. NO IT ISNT. It's about your daughter. It's about chopping up her world in this mess. You piss me off op.

Therapy ffs. Less of the 'you all think I'm fucked up' - therapy is, or should be, preventative action. But it seems to be a foreign concept in your world eg how come you and kind, dependable H didn't at least try addressing your sexual problems with a professional at some point? But you say you're 'always loved' the skanky cheat - that would be throughout your marriage?

I lost count of the number of relationships/family units this pair of losers have broken up. I feel sorry for the op's kid having that for a mother.

On what planet would it be beneficial for ANYONE in this sorry scenario for the OP to tell her STBX that she shagged someone else? The best thing for her daughter is a split that's as amicable as possible.

Seriously, some people are so blinded by 'truth' and 'justice' that they can't see anything else. Grow up and at least try to live in the real world.

OP, can you imagine what you could do if you took all the brain power you're currently expending on your OM, and channeled it into creating an amazing future for yourself and your daughter?

You are free. Neither of these men are right for you. Grab this freedom and don't look back.

Why worry if you will be enough for him? He is not good enough for you, and he sure as HELL is not good enough to be an influence in your daughter's life.

OP, I'm not going to flame you, but here's my two cents.

I feel sorry for you, your life has obviously gone from one unhappy situation to the next and I'm sure this is not what you wanted life to be like.

However, I want to ask you, what makes you think it'll be different this time around? All the evidence on both sides points to the contrary.

Also, you say you both want to take at least a 6 month break before coming together again but realistically, both of you have shown yourselves to be weak where the other one is concerned, and I think this timeline is unlikely to stand.

Lastly, although i understand why you want to conceal the nature of your relationship with OM from your STBX and your friends, the fact is that your whole relationship has been and will move forward based on lies. I am not one for telling the truth at all costs, no matter who is hurts, but I do think going forward when you're so enmeshed in lies is not healthy for anyone involved.

I agree that rather than focusing on this OM you should work out some counselling for yourself, as I think you've become irrationally dependant on the idea of this relationship rather than the reality you face.

Best of luck to you.

Seriously, some people are so blinded by 'truth' and 'justice' that they can't see anything else. Grow up and at least try to live in the real world

I very much live in the real world thank you very much.

As for not telling her stbx. He WILL find out at some point.

To think he won't is extremely naive. How 'amicable' do you think it will be then when he realises not only did she have an affair but she also lied about it to?

As for not telling her stbx. He WILL find out at some point.

Absolute rubbish.

You honestly believe all, or even most, affairs see the light of day?

The OP doesn't need to lie. If her STBX asks her, she should be truthful.

But to suggest she tells him voluntarily and out of the blue is a ludicrous and unrealistic idea. How is that putting her child first?

Live a life you and your daughter can be proud of.

Don't sully her innocent, beautiful life with your selfish crap. End of.

Any decent woman would not need this to be spelled out to, but you op are so mired in your own crap you are pulling your daughter down in too and you can't see it.

But hopefully you can turn your life around and choose very carefully who you bring into it for her sake.

If you don't think you can help yourself may be the better option is for your daughter to live with her father and you continue your car crash of a life alone.

I'm going to through a spanner in the works. I had a brief affair with a MM before Christmas. He was a serial cheat. He told his wife and he promised NC with me etc etc. The NC hasnt happened and it is a matter of time before she throws him out. I won't be able to trust him to be faithful to me, I'm not stupid but I do trust him not to lie to me about it. But that is who he is, the question is whether I am able to live with that. Nothing in this life is perfect, everything is a compromise and sometimes the connection you have with a person is too strong to walk away from. Only you know how you feel and what the two of you are like together, act on that but make sure you have a life and friends outside of your relationship as a safety net.

some people are so blinded by 'truth' and 'justice' that they can't see anything else. Grow up and at least try to live in the real world.

I've read it all on here now!

I'd rather be blinded by 'truth and justice' than be a cheating skank who lies to save my immoral arse.

There is a man caught up in this sordid tale - a man who (in OP's words) is a 'lovely, kind, responsible man' who would 'never let me down'.

This same man - who has done nothing wrong - is being mugged off by the OP to keep him 'amicable'. He has no clue that the wife who married him for all the wrong reasons, has been shagging her serial cheating former affair partner behind his back. Not a clue. Adding him, without his knowledge or permission, to the list of casualties that she and her lover have left in their wake.

He is being kept in the dark, lied to, deceived, as he has been deceived from the beginning, and she's doing it to keep things sweet for herself.

The man has the absolute right to know the truth, so he can make decisions about his own life and future based upon it. But the poor sod is being denied even that.

I'll carry on being 'blinded by truth and justice' thanks all the same - and I'm very much a grown up living in the real world. In fact it is you who sounds as selfish and immature as the OP herself and see life from the same skewed perspective as she does.

Fckup, that probably feels like a "spanner in the works" because you are in a similar place to the OP. That MM cannot be trusted to be faithful OR honest because he has proven that he is not.

Also it isn't just whether the OP can live with it, as you say, because she has a daughter who is being impacted by these decisions so she also needs to consider whether she can grow up with her daughter knowing that she is a cheat who dates other cheats and the impact of that on how her daughter views relationships in future.

Tell me, Fontella, now that the relationship is over, in exactly which way/s his life will be better for knowing this.

Practical, literal ways he will be better off - not just the 'truth will set him free' refrain.

Unfortunately for you, the best thing for the child is also the best thing for OP. Clearly you (and others) think this would be her 'getting away with it'.

But how will potentially upsetting her Ex make things better for her child?

The relationship is over. Only an idiot would risk making things worse at this point.