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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

It's long, I'm so in the wrong, but I'm in a mess and need a place to talk...

424 replies

AnotherFineMess16 · 20/01/2016 15:34

... if you could see your way fit to let me and reach a hand into the flames that I suspect are about to engulf me. I'm ready.

Nobody knows any of this. Some people know some things, but nobody knows it all apart from me and him. I suppose I'm at the point now I need an outside, objective opinion from somebody who, yes, might judge, but will do so from a place of fairness and neutrality (I hope). I thank you in advance.

16 years ago, I embarked on an 2 year long affair. He was married, I was single. I was 24, he was 30. Yes, there were kids involved, I know it was wrong, but I did it. I have no excuses, unless love/infatuation/lust is one. There is no other. It was wrong, we were wrong, I knew it, he knew it, yet we did it. There is nothing I can do to change that now. Long story short, he left his then wife and we were together. About a year afterwards, he dumped me from a great height. Completely out of the blue and it devastated me. "Karma" I hear you cry? Maybe so, I don't believe in it particularly, but this was certainly payback. A couple of months later, he came to me to tell me that he had gotten another girl pregnant. The dates suggest that she was impregnated either very close to the end of our relationship or just before. I have never had the stomach to ask too many questions, we were over anyway and I was already in a very, very dark place and physically and mentally could not cope with any more at this point. I'm not exaggerating when I tell you that I was in pieces. He wanted me back several times thereafter, but I couldn't and wouldn't. And, as it does, life moved on and so did I eventually. We stayed in touch throughout the years. The odd text, mail or (drunken) phone call. Ashamed to say there were a few nights together in there too. He would always tell me he made the biggest mistake of his life letting me go. I agreed with him. There is huge back story about his now ex wife and family and their (justified) hatred of me that also led to him dumping me, but the buck stopped with him and he just didn't love me enough, no matter what he says. I, however, sap that I am, always loved him, but the damage was so done and so was I. The whole thing really scarred me.

9 years ago I met a man. A lovely, kind, responsible man who I respected and had a deep fondness for. I knew I didn't love him passionately but I knew he would never let me down. Our sex life was never very good, but being in whatever dillusional frame of mind I was at that time, I thought I could live without it and that there was much more to life than sex. I was 31. We eventually married. We did not have sex on our honeymoon. In fact, we very rarely had sex at all. I would never tell anyone or disaparage my husband IRL, but he was unable to perform most of the times we tried. We eventually stopped even trying nearly 4 years ago. We haven't been intimate since. We both decided we'd like a child together, so as I had my own 'wimmins' problems, we used that as our excuse to go for IVF. We were very lucky and successful and we now have one child. It doesn't take a genius to work out the next bit...

Enter original MM. We got back in touch, we met, we slept together 4 months ago. We have now met 9 more times (it would be more but we live a distance apart) and have spoken/text/mailed eachother every day since. And here comes the cliche and I can hear myself, I know what I sound like, a fuckin' stupid idiot, but I love him. And I believe he loves me. We want to be together, properly and just do it right this time. Although, I accept it's been a very shitty start. Shortly after this first meeting, I finally sat with my husband and told him what I should have done months if not years previously, that the marriage was over. I did not tell him about the OM. We are now separated, although we continue to live together until we can find a suitable place for him to move into. We will co-parent our child and we are amicable right now. Probably due, in no small part to the fact that he doesn't know about OM. I know that we would have separated soon, regardless of the OM entering my life again. I was a fool to think otherwise.

OM is in a LTR, however, they are also in separate bedrooms, he tells me. I do believe him, as gullible as that makes me sound. He has told me he will leave in the next 6 months but he wants to make the break as 'gentle' as possible. They have no children together, but she has 2, one of which is a teenager and lives with them. He feels responsibility towards this child as well as wanting to spare his partner as much as possible. I do not agree with his strategy, but it is his plan so I will leave him to do it. We have agreed to have no more meetings and very reduced contact for the coming months until such time as we are free to pursue a legitmate relationship.

God, I do love him but I don't know if I'll ever be able to fully trust him and I'm so worried I'm going to be hurt again. Yet, yet, yet, I can't seem to stop it. What am I even asking for here? From you? I don't know really. A big bucket of wake up and smell the coffee maybe? I'm a fucking mess. Are we completely selfish bastards? Are we wrong for wanting to be together and have some sort of happiness for the rest of our days? Can anyone out there, any of you, see any hope or happiness coming out of this? I'm not a fool, really. I know we're not some modern day Romeo and Juliette, I know there is no such thing as 'soul mates' but if there were, he seems to be mine. He's my lobster... Has anyone had anything similar happen? Maybe you could tell me how it turned out? OK. I'm braced. Thanks for reading.

OP posts:
AnotherFineMess16 · 21/01/2016 09:09

Cauliflowerbalti - Thank you. That really, really helps. I want my daughter to be happy. To find real, healthy love in her life. Neither this OM or my stbxh was an example of either.

OP posts:
Kreacherelf · 21/01/2016 09:09

You two deserve each other.

Fwiw, I hope you 2 are lobsters, settle down and stay together forever. That way, no more innocent people will get hurt.

Owllady · 21/01/2016 09:09

Has he never thought of going to the Dr? Confused

Yakari · 21/01/2016 09:12

There isn't much that can be added - he's not the magic one that got away, he's an arse.
But stop and think about introducing your DD to this arse (even if you waited a 'respectable' time). Is this the picture of love and relationships you want her to grow up with? Even if you get together, he leaves again, gets someone else pregnant and what you take him back - again? How would you react if this was your DD following this pattern of behaviour in 20plus years?
Please leave your DH, stay single, get counselling and spend time working out what is really going on. Stoic talks a lot of sense, you make the decision, you take the responsibility.

PhoenixRisingSlowly · 21/01/2016 09:13

You need to stop pretending to yourself that you're doing him a favour by not telling him. You're just protecting youself because you're afraid of losing custody and the reasonable rapport you currently have with your exH. You can dress it up however you like but it's a crap thing to do to him. Friends don't lie to each other, you can't call him your friend when he doesn't know you have betrayed him. My guess is you are so needy that you can't envisage a life without eother of them, which is where you're headed if you tell your poor H what you have done, because the other bloke sure isn't going to leave his GF (as you have worked out) and if your H realised the whole bloody relationsgip was built on a lie and that you then shagged around, he is going to leg it very fast in the opposite direction with good reason. No more cosy co-parenting chats. And I'd guess that doesn't appeal wildly to you.
Do not dress it up as altruism though. It's pure self interest.

AnotherFineMess16 · 21/01/2016 09:13

Owllday, yes, he has been to the doctor years ago. It's more psycological than physical we think. He made the decision to just stop trying. I didn't force the issue. Looking back I can see that I didn't 'fancy' him enough to pursue it. I suppose if i did I would have been more persistant. We just fell into the friends/siblings role and stayed there. It's very hard to get out of that rut once you're in it. Evidently, neither of us cared enough to change it. And here we are.

OP posts:
Offred · 21/01/2016 09:14

Whether you were actively in contact for the whole of your marriage or not one of the factors that influenced you picking your h and choosing to marry him was you never having gotten over your sexual interest in and emotional investment in OM.

Yakari · 21/01/2016 09:14

Cross post with Cauliflower

Offred · 21/01/2016 09:16

And you are naive if you think your h's issues were nothing to do with your investment in OM.

If you were to get into a relationship with OM at any time he will know why.

AnotherFineMess16 · 21/01/2016 09:20

Maybe so, Offred. Look, it's not like I spent any great amount of time thinking about the OM throughout my marriage. But, there'd be the odd text, the odd dream, the odd place/song/thing that would remind me of him over the years. I would get the... stomach lurch? It would always pass and life went on. But, yes, it was always, in my stupid mind, unfinished business I suppose. I should have left it unfinished, I know. But again, I was so unhappy a few months ago, I was selfish and only thinking about me and what I wanted. So I did it. I reached out to him and he, probably not believing his fucking luck, reached right back. I'm human, I fucked up, big style.

OP posts:
Offred · 21/01/2016 09:23

And despite your recent revelation that OM is still a twat I don't believe for a second that this is it for you.

You already know he is a twat, you are caught up in the drama of it.

You could block him and go NC but you won't.

You will want to get 'closure' or some other shit and he'll draw you back in again.

QuiteLikely5 · 21/01/2016 09:25

I think that you are wondering if your OM is going to stay true to you if you make a go of it.

Well I think he will try but looking at his historic behaviour I would have to say he seems to get bored and then seek excitement and thrills elsewhere.

I think your fixation on this man has been unhealthy and silly. The two of you seem slightly dysfunctional in the relationship sense.

can you ever trust him? I don't think you're that stupid.

I do think that you need to get this out of your system so you might as well take the plunge.

Offred · 21/01/2016 09:25

This is all part of being human yes, but it is not good behaviour.

You should never have dragged your h into this mess. You should have made sure you had counselling to get over twatface before you even tried dating again.

The only unfinished business you have is your own.

AnotherFineMess16 · 21/01/2016 09:31

Believe it or not Offred, I have had counselling in the past for other reasons and OM came up. I thought it was done and dealt with. I really did. I never, ever saw this happening. I took my wedding vows thinking I'd married for life. I underestimated the affect of celibacy and loneliness within a marriage. But, it's done. What do I do now? Surely this is the right thing? Leave the marriage.

Quitelikey - nail on head. No, I can never trust him. It is both unhealthy and silly and cruel and sordid and so many other things. I'm not doing it any more. I'm not.

OP posts:
Offred · 21/01/2016 09:31

Don't prolong this mess any longer is the only advice it is possible to give really.

I think you shouldn't necessarily tell your h the whole story unless you have also had sex with him while having sex with OM (so he can make choices about his sexual health). But I think you know your h is blaming himself for not being good enough when in reality it was your lack of investment that meant the relationship was doomed from the start and it would be kinder to at least explain that part to him.

Offred · 21/01/2016 09:32

Yes, leaving the marriage is the right thingz

Elendon · 21/01/2016 09:33

"Are we wrong to want some sort of happiness for ourselves for the rest of our lives?"

Good question. My answer would be that I wouldn't, couldn't just settle for 'some sort of happiness'.

Being selfish and wanting it all, I'm wanting happiness full stop. Someone to love, trust, have fun and have satisfying intimacy with.

However, I think you are very down, this is no basis from which to build a life together.

I understand the quandary people throw themselves in life, but really you need to reassess. You could both give it a go again. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. If it doesn't work out, chalk it up to experience. If it does, then your quids in.

Offred · 21/01/2016 09:34

The lack of a sexual relationship with your h was part of your attraction to him. It wasn't an exit affair you had and it wasn't you thinking you could cope with celibacy. You chose a sexless marriage because you were still tied to OM all along.

AnotherFineMess16 · 21/01/2016 09:35

We haven't had sex in nearly 4 years and only a handful of times previous to that, very few, erm, successfully. No sexual health testing will be needed. And it's very easy to put all the blame on me for the breakdown of this marriage when you are hearing about the events of the previous few months. That, however, is not the case. Our marriage was never a real marriage. We both know that. But thank you.

OP posts:
Offred · 21/01/2016 09:35

OM has been your primary attachment all along. Having sex with your husband would have been the cheating in your subconscious mind IMO.

Offred · 21/01/2016 09:36

I am saying exactly that TBH, it was never a real marriage.

AnotherFineMess16 · 21/01/2016 09:36

Offred, you are wrong. I'm sorry, but you are.

OP posts:
QuiteLikely5 · 21/01/2016 09:37

I don't think you should attack yourself too much. You have made a mistake and I think carried the weight of it for too long. Stop looking back, look forward.

And you knew you would be scalded here!

I don't think trust is everything. I will never trust a man, it doesn't spoil my marriage though.

I do think unless you can change your perception of how much you love this man that you should be with him. I don't think you need to ponder it for the rest of your life. I think you should do it so you can put it to rest.......whichever way it goes.......

Loving someone always carries risk

AnotherFineMess16 · 21/01/2016 09:38

About the subconscious cheating on OM thing I mean.

Elendon, thank you. I am doing a lot of assessing right now. I want more than this man can give. I'd rather be single than have nights of worry and wondering and waiting for the axe to fall. Better to get out now.

OP posts:
Offred · 21/01/2016 09:39

So why do you describe having dreams, sporadic contact, stomach lurches and unfinished business for the whole of your marriage then?

I'm sure you believed you were over OM and it wasn't a problem. IMO this was just cognitive dissonance.