Financial control. What is normal?

[AngryMo]

I've lost count how many times I've tried to start this thread, and don't know how to articulate it as I don't really know what I want. It ranges from I need to leave ASAP to I might as well just stay.

The many questions that I keep switching between are:

Is DH emotionally/financially abusive? I don't know if I'm imagining it or if it is real.

How do couples manage their finances if one stays at home? I want to know what other people do to see if the way he manages it is normal or not.

Why does he on the one hand, show off to his friends about the money he's spent doing up our house recently and the flashy things he's bought, but on the other, makes me feel like I'm almost stealing his money when I need cash for housekeeping or other essential things for the children (we agreed I would stay home until kids are in school)? Why does he make me account for every single penny like we don't have any money when I know he has plenty? Why did he buy me an expensive gift for Christmas and splash out on expensive wines and things for our guests but then have a go at me for spending £7.50 on a gift for a friend's daughter, which he then checked the price of online to check I wasn't lying?

I'm exhausted living with him and he makes me miserable which can't be much fun for him either. I don't see how he can enjoy being in this relationship either. In the past he's humiliated me in front of friends, reducing me to tears in front of them, he's stormed off leaving me in a restaurant on my own with a full plate after I wanted to discuss what was wrong with us and how we could fix it. I've also had two panic attacks because of how he treats me. He never apologises in person but has by email but even the never spontaneously, always as a result of me telling him he needs to apologise.

Also, he doesn't really react when I tell him we should probably just split up and then pretends everything is fine after an argument's died down. Why does he do that?

I never get any real emotion from him and I don't remember the last time I thought what a lovely person you are. I used to, but that was years ago. I get so jealous when I see happy couples bantering away together, being affectionate with one another.

But then again, maybe I am a complete idiot, what was I thinking giving up my job to look after my children? Why did I hand over my financial independence? Is he right to control my spending so tightly? Should I have to ask every time I need to buy a new bra or want to take the kids out or need to buy a present for a friend? Maybe this is normal, I don't know. Maybe it is all his money and I don't deserve to be spending it. I rarely ask for money for anything frivolous. Maybe because he earns the money, if he wants to spend £2000 on an appliance I have no right to say it's too expensive. I'm so scared to tell him I overspent the other day by accident. He's never been physically abusive but I'm scared of his reaction. Often if I tell him something - anything, not necessarily money related, I wonder why I bothered because it's not worth the grief, so I keep many things to myself and it makes me secretive which I dislike. I am a very open person generally and it's not in my nature to behave that way but I feel forced to.

Thing is though because I am now financially dependent, he knows it's not that easy for me to leave. I don't know what to do. I love my children deeply and they are only small and need us to be together.

Anyone who can relate to me or has any experience, has words of advice, or even to tell me I'm being pathetic, whatever it is, I would like to know.

Your needs as a family are for a household income and childcare for your children. You have a joint agreement that you will look after the children and he will earn the money. If you don't look after the children, he can't go earn the money. If it was the other way around would you consider that his contribution is worthless? Would you make him beg for what he needs? His salary is your household income. I know you are trying to un-brainwash yourself. I am single but others have already posted that they are SAHPs an have equal access to family funds. You are absolutely not stupid. The visible problem here is a financial one. But behind that lies the emotional manipulation he has done to erode your self worth to such an extent that you believe him. I also know how this feels. One day, if you look for help to get away from his abuse, you will be able to see with such clarity how he achieved this and what a vile human being he is for doing that to you. You do not deserve to be treated like this.

He wouldn't agree that if I didn't look after the children he couldn't earn the money. His answer would be dump the kids on his mother, take care of a toddler, and do pick ups from school as well.
I can hear him now saying but I'm not saying go back to work full time, I'm just saying go back part time, as long as you bring in a grand a month blah blah blah. Even before this supposed requirement or agreement of me going back to work kicks in I've had the same treatment throughout anyway. I've been forced to ask him every time I need an extra £10 regardless of what it is for for over two years.
I don't see what will change if I go back to work a couple of days a week (which is never in a million years going to equate to a grand a month but anyway...) - the only thing I can think of his he will be able to buy his sports car much quicker.

He sounds horrid, you need advice about what to do,

You don't need him to agree. He has been brainwashing you. It's time to stop doing his job for him and start to nurture some thoughts of your own. Talking to WA will help you.

Part of my brain still keeps telling me yes I should have my own job and earnings and as a woman in this day and age not need to be dependent on my man. But I also know it's not about that because if I were the breadwinner and he were the SAHP I would value every single thing he did for me and the children and would know that he would need some financial freedom too. That scenario is laughable in our case though. He simply couldn't do what I do. It's about working together regardless of who's earning and who's not. My rational brain knows all that.

So if you get an income he can spend it on a car ??????? well hc can FOTTFSOFAFHSM.....Oh that is just Peachy

Hold onto those thoughts! It's like having two alternate realities. Allow yourself to know what you know.

He's talked of nothing else for months. And he will flaunt the thing to everyone and I won't be allowed to touch it or go near it. Nor would I want to. I've already told him he won't be taking the children out in it without my permission, which I won't give.

When did he become such a monster?

He always was inside, but now he has the means and opportunity to show his true colours. Don't blame yourself for not seeing it, charmers can easily fool those who are not looking out for it, or they wouldn't bother. I found that out after many years of emotional and financial mistreatment from ExH. He was the golden child and MIL was a bullying enabler for him. Nice combination.

I think you should be prepared to find out that H has made exit plans from your relationship since he is used to acting unilaterally. IIWY I would get on to a SHL asap before you get done over. As you are aware, you are more vulnerable because you are not married but your contribution and sacrifice must be factored into the separation negotiations.

Sorry, SHL?

Shit Hot Lawyer

How could I afford a crap lawyer let alone a shit hot one.

Hi Angry. Delurking to wish you strength. This man may know (and control) the cost of everything, but he is not acknowledging your value as a partner and a parent. He doesn't deserve you and you don't deserve this.
Hold on to your anger. Another one saying WA would be a good starting place.

Thank you Cloud. Knows the price of everything and the value of nothing...how sadly accurate.

I'm a stay at home mum and all 3 dc are at primary school. If I ever needed to explain to somebody how it works I say that dh does the job that gets paid and I do the equally good job that doesn't get paid. All of dh's wages are as much mine as they are his.

I'm sure you could afford a SHL lawyer if you disclosed to your parents precisely what has been happening at home all this time. I want to pay for one for you and I don't even know you!

Concentrate on this: this awful man has you and your children completely enslaved. Once you accept that you can fix your sights on an alternative reality and an alternative future.

A frank discussion with him will have you tied up in knots and will not get you anywhere. It will just be a signpost to him to tighten the leash even more.

He has no respect for you at all, you are just another possession to him. This is a very sick world-view and consequently makes him your enemy.

I have read the whole thread. My heart sank when I read 'Unfortunately we are not actually married.'

I would focus on getting a job. First and foremost.

Get a job.

It's never a good idea to jack in work and become a SAHM with an unmarried partner unless you have your own independent means.

And even when you leave, you will likely have to get a job as he won't be liable for any spousal maintenance.

Getting a job will give you power.

WA will hopefully be able to advise re practicalities. IIRC their phone number won't show up on a BT landline. You could also speak to someone at your GP practice. From your posts, you are not at physical risk. Use this time to get your ducks in a row. If you feel able to, it might help to let someone you trust know what's happening. Would your parents, or a best friend, be supportive?

Well, from his POV he is fully financially supporting an able-bodied adult he is not even married to and who refuses to get even a part-time job. I'm not saying he is right; he sounds like an asshole. But was he fully on board with the notion of fatherhood and SAHM before the kids were conceived? He sounds very resentful and hostile.

As others have said my heart sank when you said you aren't legally married. How did this situation come about?

What ages are the children? Can you move in with parents for a couple of years while you retrain for earning a living?

I know of any number of women who put up with ugly relationships because they prefer to be SAHM than WM. It doesn't sound appealing but we each have to decide what trade-offs to make in life and what example we want to model for our offspring. If I were you I would leave asap.

it is financial abuse, get yourself some money put aside. He wont change with you now. I had exactly the same as you, stay at home mum, he earned way into the £100.00.00 mark and I even got an allowance of around £300 a week which had to see me through shopping weekly for 3 kids, clothing them and filling a huge range rover......I was never allowed to spend his money. Everything we has was for show so every one knew we had money. My house however was never decorated, I wasn't ever allowed to spend any money on the house. I eventually left him and he paid me nothing for a year! I was absolutely broke, i sold everything he ever bought me which fed the kids for a while. I got myself a job and divorced him which also cost me a fortune as he kept dragging me back to court. I am now financially ok, not earning loads but I survived and am far happier than I ever was with him! he's still controlling and probably will always try to be but I am free and happy. I hope you make the best decision for yourself it is never easy, as if he is controlling as soon as you tell him you want to leave he is going to try to make your life as hard as possible. If I was you I would go to the bank and draw as much out as possible and keep it to one side as you are clearly going to need it! good luck with it all and I hope everything goes ok xx remember though all of the comments are our opinions, no one ever know's what truly goes on in someone's marriage xx

I was a sahm for years, have only recently gone back to work. Like others have said we always saw it as family money etc. However my DH is terrible with money cannot stick to a budget or plan for anything that might be happening today let alone a week, or few months. I found this out the hard way as I'd left him to sort out all things financial while the dc's took up my time. Now I'm in charge. Even though he is useless and will admit to it and even though I am in charge of the day to day running of our accounts he is still involved in all major decisions and updated with how we're doing at any time. So even IF you were crap with money there would still be no reason to treat you the way your DH is doing.

I wouldn't make any decisions that involved spending say over £100 without discussing it with him. So your partners argument is still rubbish even if it were true that you aren't good at managing money because you should still be a team.

OP, get your first free half hour of advice from a lawyer, who will tell you your options regarding retaining one for your current matters.

I was in your position with little money so I negotiated to pay the fees by instalments, and there are other options like asking for family help as has been mentioned. Don't let P intimidate you into thinking you can't have legal advice and representation because you can't afford it. He is starving you of money quite deliberately, and lawyers know this.

Get this advice before you do anything else, once P knows your plans he may try to cut money off from you quite ruthlessly. And he will have made his own plans.

'OP, get your first free half hour of advice from a lawyer, who will tell you your options regarding retaining one for your current matters. '

Okay, please be aware of this. This is something that came up in the thread about MN misadvise.

Not all lawyers offer this 'free half hour'. A lot don't. Make sure yours does, first, or takes installments.

Personally, I'd get a job first.

I agree with expat, start looking for a job asap. You need an independent and secure income if at all possible.
DO NOT assume any lawyer will give a free half hour. You can ask, but they don't have to do this.

expat most family lawyers in England do IME, this has been influenced by the govt withdrawal of legal aid in such cases.