Financial control. What is normal?

[AngryMo]

I've lost count how many times I've tried to start this thread, and don't know how to articulate it as I don't really know what I want. It ranges from I need to leave ASAP to I might as well just stay.

The many questions that I keep switching between are:

Is DH emotionally/financially abusive? I don't know if I'm imagining it or if it is real.

How do couples manage their finances if one stays at home? I want to know what other people do to see if the way he manages it is normal or not.

Why does he on the one hand, show off to his friends about the money he's spent doing up our house recently and the flashy things he's bought, but on the other, makes me feel like I'm almost stealing his money when I need cash for housekeeping or other essential things for the children (we agreed I would stay home until kids are in school)? Why does he make me account for every single penny like we don't have any money when I know he has plenty? Why did he buy me an expensive gift for Christmas and splash out on expensive wines and things for our guests but then have a go at me for spending £7.50 on a gift for a friend's daughter, which he then checked the price of online to check I wasn't lying?

I'm exhausted living with him and he makes me miserable which can't be much fun for him either. I don't see how he can enjoy being in this relationship either. In the past he's humiliated me in front of friends, reducing me to tears in front of them, he's stormed off leaving me in a restaurant on my own with a full plate after I wanted to discuss what was wrong with us and how we could fix it. I've also had two panic attacks because of how he treats me. He never apologises in person but has by email but even the never spontaneously, always as a result of me telling him he needs to apologise.

Also, he doesn't really react when I tell him we should probably just split up and then pretends everything is fine after an argument's died down. Why does he do that?

I never get any real emotion from him and I don't remember the last time I thought what a lovely person you are. I used to, but that was years ago. I get so jealous when I see happy couples bantering away together, being affectionate with one another.

But then again, maybe I am a complete idiot, what was I thinking giving up my job to look after my children? Why did I hand over my financial independence? Is he right to control my spending so tightly? Should I have to ask every time I need to buy a new bra or want to take the kids out or need to buy a present for a friend? Maybe this is normal, I don't know. Maybe it is all his money and I don't deserve to be spending it. I rarely ask for money for anything frivolous. Maybe because he earns the money, if he wants to spend £2000 on an appliance I have no right to say it's too expensive. I'm so scared to tell him I overspent the other day by accident. He's never been physically abusive but I'm scared of his reaction. Often if I tell him something - anything, not necessarily money related, I wonder why I bothered because it's not worth the grief, so I keep many things to myself and it makes me secretive which I dislike. I am a very open person generally and it's not in my nature to behave that way but I feel forced to.

Thing is though because I am now financially dependent, he knows it's not that easy for me to leave. I don't know what to do. I love my children deeply and they are only small and need us to be together.

Anyone who can relate to me or has any experience, has words of advice, or even to tell me I'm being pathetic, whatever it is, I would like to know.

I have no idea where his documents are. I just had a rummage to see if I could find any bank statements but only found credit card bills, nothing alarming, all being paid regularly. I am going to keep looking though. We've just moved house so stuff is everywhere and I'm not surprised I can't find anything. I have NEVER ever seen one of his bank statements or salary slips though, ever.
Shit Dollius, am I completely fucked because we're not married? I won half the house. We wouldn't have this house if it weren't for my massive down payment.

*own not won

He does not have access to phone, computer, etc. and we have no shared access to anything.

We've been home owners for a long time and when we bought our first place we were both working full time and had no children so were equals financially. But I think he's got carried away now forgetting my past contributions, and also present ones, even though no longer financial.
Is it wise to mention I think he's abusive? Should I show him some stuff? What do people think? It might aggravate him. I don't know.

Can you prove that the downpayment was made by you? Did you draw up any legal agreement reflecting your greater share of the property? Keep looking for documents but you need to do this discretely.

The short answer is no idea if I can prove it. I can prove I was holding the money in my account and it was transferred to the solicitor directly I think so there must be be papers about this. Loft stuff job I think.

"Is it wise to mention I think he's abusive? Should I show him some stuff?"

No to both questions. You need to stay safe.

He acts like this because he feels entitled to do so; he will never change or admit that his abusive treatment of you is wrong. You and by turn your children are mere possessions to him.

Gathering financial info is helpful but you must keep safe. Gathering such items is not an essential prerequisite before or to actually leaving him either.

When you go shopping can you do cash back off the card? Is the car you drive in your name?

You could start insisting that he gives you a monthly allowance for you to spend as you choose - may cause a row but worth a try to have some cash.

Any gifts you can return and keep the £££ for?

I have seen so many unmarried partners end up with nothing financially after years spent doing everything to enable the other one to work makes me so mad...

Absolutely no - someone said print off a leaflet about financial abuse and show it to him. Do not do this. He will not admit he is abusive. You have this time to plan and prepare. You are up against someone who has spent years scheming, manipulating and conning you.

I could have written your post.

That is my h. I am currently working towards a divorce for long and boring reasons but this is one of them.

It's hard work. I don't have time right now to tell you everything in doing to get out but I will message you later.

Stay strong. Your worth more then that excuse for a man

Yes I'm going to ask that Random, it will cause a row but at least if it's a fixed sum then it's my problem if I run out. I can't do cash back because I have this stupid prepaid gift card thing that I use instead. Totally controlled. Can't even choose the shop I want.

Thank you Boringly. Well done for getting out, you brave soul.

I don't have any useful advice, Mo, but I just wanted to say that this is absolutely not normal or healthy. I was a SAHM for years; we always had a joint account: I managed the money and I kept DH informed. Like you, we bought our first house on the back of my downpayment.

The mother of a friend of mine was in this situation when her DC were growing up: her DH gave her a tiny budget to manage on (and at the same time spent money his flash car, hobbies etc). She left him in the end; her (adult) DC are close to her but not to him.

Good luck.

I'd keep repeating along the following lines when you have this discussion:

"I thought we were a team but somehow I'm now the unpaid servant?"

"I contributed more to buying the house but now I'm not entitled to any money of my own to spend as I choose despite working 60 hours per week?"

"We agreed that I'd provide the childcare, a nanny would be costing you £40k per year"

"Why do you not value what I bring to our relationship? You can only go out and earn that salary because I am here doing EVERYTHING else"

Personally if I could stand it I'd stick it out until you get some money and have all your ducks in a row. Go back to college/work and get him to pay for the childcare and a cleaner...

You need to think long term.

I think the row is worth it and he'll need to come clean about how he really views you.

You should both have equal leisure time and equal spending money to spend on whatever you want.

If you're playing the long game, any chance you can get married?

Because without a marriage contract, your contribution as a SAHP will not at all be financially compensated by the divorce judgement.

My sentence above makes no sense, since there's no divorce judgement if you leave him when you're unmarried, but you get the gist.

Marriage is a financial contract, and it protects the financially weaker partner who contributes more unpaid labour to the family.

At the moment I can't even kiss him let alone put on that charade! The very thought of marrying him in front of friends and family makes me ill. It would be so false.

Mo you've already had great advice from posters far more knowledgeable than me. But I just wanted to reassure you that this is not acceptable or "normal" - far from it. You deserve better.

You can presumably contact the solicitor, re your house sale, & ask for a copy of your house deeds. I imagine it's just 50:50, as at the time, you payed the downpayment, but he was bringing in the salary. Worth checking.

Get up in that loft & start going through documents when kids are sleeping. Or you may just have to get someone to take the kids to the park, or babysit while you do this. best that your DS doesn't tell Daddy you were up rummaging in the loft.
Doesn't he receive any bank statements at home ? you can intercept one, & blame the Royal Mail.

Please be sure he cannot access your computer & see your internet history also.

No chance he can access my email or anything and I'm pretty sure I can access what I need, I just need to find it. Yes I thought about intercepting because there is no other way. I don't like being sneaky though. I am not a sneaky person but believe me, he's making me that way. What a sad person he is for thinking he can treat his partner that way.

Can someone kindly sum up why it is not OK for the non-working half of a couple to have to ask for money and to have to explain what it's for when it is needed? Can someone explain why the breadwinner's money does not belong to them alone and should be fairly distributed? He is adamant all his earnings are HIS and only HIS. We are just lucky if we get something.
I honestly can't argue with him on these points because he has some patronising condescending way of explaining that things work his way simply because he is financial control and I am not.

I know that sounds really stupid by the way.

You are parents, you should be a team. It was agreed you should stay home and raise the children and he would go out to work to earn money for the family. It really is that simple. He sounds so awful, I have a feeling you wont ever be able to reason with him though. Do seek outside help. You know, you don't need a reason to leave a relationship, being unhappy is enough justification. I am sorry for your situation, not one I could ever tolerate.

Because you are a team and you spend his time looking after the children, house etc
How is this not valuable? If you were not there he would have to pay someone to do this. Family money is just that; for the family.
You both contribute in different ways and should be equal partners.
I would be interested to know what he does for a living

I've said all those things to him. I thought maybe I was missing some clever undeniable explanation.