Financial control. What is normal?

[AngryMo]

I've lost count how many times I've tried to start this thread, and don't know how to articulate it as I don't really know what I want. It ranges from I need to leave ASAP to I might as well just stay.

The many questions that I keep switching between are:

Is DH emotionally/financially abusive? I don't know if I'm imagining it or if it is real.

How do couples manage their finances if one stays at home? I want to know what other people do to see if the way he manages it is normal or not.

Why does he on the one hand, show off to his friends about the money he's spent doing up our house recently and the flashy things he's bought, but on the other, makes me feel like I'm almost stealing his money when I need cash for housekeeping or other essential things for the children (we agreed I would stay home until kids are in school)? Why does he make me account for every single penny like we don't have any money when I know he has plenty? Why did he buy me an expensive gift for Christmas and splash out on expensive wines and things for our guests but then have a go at me for spending £7.50 on a gift for a friend's daughter, which he then checked the price of online to check I wasn't lying?

I'm exhausted living with him and he makes me miserable which can't be much fun for him either. I don't see how he can enjoy being in this relationship either. In the past he's humiliated me in front of friends, reducing me to tears in front of them, he's stormed off leaving me in a restaurant on my own with a full plate after I wanted to discuss what was wrong with us and how we could fix it. I've also had two panic attacks because of how he treats me. He never apologises in person but has by email but even the never spontaneously, always as a result of me telling him he needs to apologise.

Also, he doesn't really react when I tell him we should probably just split up and then pretends everything is fine after an argument's died down. Why does he do that?

I never get any real emotion from him and I don't remember the last time I thought what a lovely person you are. I used to, but that was years ago. I get so jealous when I see happy couples bantering away together, being affectionate with one another.

But then again, maybe I am a complete idiot, what was I thinking giving up my job to look after my children? Why did I hand over my financial independence? Is he right to control my spending so tightly? Should I have to ask every time I need to buy a new bra or want to take the kids out or need to buy a present for a friend? Maybe this is normal, I don't know. Maybe it is all his money and I don't deserve to be spending it. I rarely ask for money for anything frivolous. Maybe because he earns the money, if he wants to spend £2000 on an appliance I have no right to say it's too expensive. I'm so scared to tell him I overspent the other day by accident. He's never been physically abusive but I'm scared of his reaction. Often if I tell him something - anything, not necessarily money related, I wonder why I bothered because it's not worth the grief, so I keep many things to myself and it makes me secretive which I dislike. I am a very open person generally and it's not in my nature to behave that way but I feel forced to.

Thing is though because I am now financially dependent, he knows it's not that easy for me to leave. I don't know what to do. I love my children deeply and they are only small and need us to be together.

Anyone who can relate to me or has any experience, has words of advice, or even to tell me I'm being pathetic, whatever it is, I would like to know.

See here for CAB advice:
www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-rights/legal-system/taking-legal-action/help-with-legal-costs-free-or-affordable-help/

Hand on heart stop doing ANYTHING for him then, look after yourself and the children only, do not cook or wash or clean any parts of the rooms that are only his. Got an ensuite? Let him use it alone and use a different bathroom and so on.

He values nothing you do so don't do anything as it's so meaningless.

If you've decided it's truly over transfer all the household bills into his name. Then start living separately, tell him it's over, phone the CSA start claiming maintenance from him...

Sorry but obviously this has been going on for years you are just the trophy "wife" and children

'expat most family lawyers in England do IME, this has been influenced by the govt withdrawal of legal aid in such cases.'

Yes, but you need to make sure the one you are seeing does, because as pointed out by several posters on that thread, they got stuck with bills for hundreds of pounds by just assuming.

Hi angry, to give you a different viewpoint I'm the main earner and dh is a sahd. We chose to do this as I was more established in a career. Most of our accounts are joint. The majority of savings are in his name (tax efficient).

Your partner may speak as if he is good financially (budgets, prepaid store cards - I'm assuming he gets them through work with a discount). But savings should always be in the non earners name to get more interest. And why are you not claiming child benefit? Dh claims (to protect his NI credits) I then pay the tax on it! It works out the same income each year. If a state pension exists when we retire I want him to get his max entitlement.

You ask why the income should be shared: that's because it's our income, my dh and dcs are not second class citizens, they are valued, equal and I want to provide for them. Dh works bloody hard in the house, he makes my life so much easier. Nights away with work, early mornings etc. dinners, washing, children's activities etc. he does so much with the dcs.

Any big purchases we discuss because we are saving for something specific. It's good that neither of us are materialistic, big TVs, the latest technology doesn't really interest us! So we have a similar attitude to money.

May I ask why you didn't get married?
Get your docs together, especially from when you bought the house. And when you split use cms to get maintenance, don't do it privately - he will fuck you around. Ignore his gold digger comments, you are just getting your legal entitlement.

That half hour free thing is a marketing tool some firms use at their discretion there is no entitlement to it.

Why should family solicitors work for free?

Op, you said that your parents are kind, generous people. Could you and your DC move in with them until you get back on your feet? I know that if one of my DC was being financially and emotionally abused I'd want to help them out for a few months or even a few years until they sorted themselves out. My advice would be to chat to them as I'm guessing they already know that you are unhappy but don't want to interfere.

If you did go back to work, would your partner share the household work and childcare or would you be working AND doing it all yourself?

I think that this about more than the lack of money

You have no freedom

You feel under valued

You have no money

Most of all you are unhappy

--

On the positive side

You have realised that you want changes

You need to make some enquiries and make some plans

I believe that you can open a bank account with some id and as little as £1 in your name eg Post Office if you are in UK

--

Perhaps you could offer some tips to people who are thinking about being a SAHM about what agreements should be put into place...

My parents don't live close enough for us to move in with them otherwise they'd definitely help me out, that much I'm sure about. I don't want to say anything to them though and don't want to worry them, they are elderly and have their own problems.

Before I gave up my job, he did do things around the house and help with childcare, it wasn't all me. But there were little signs of selfishness I hadn't seen before children - like going off to do lads' types things, with his friends who at the time didn't have children. I always said wait until they have their own kids and this won't be happening anymore and I was right. They turned into responsible fathers who took care of their families first.

But he's only got worse since I gave up my job completely. I know where this comes from, again it's his parents. His father was totally unsupportive of his mother and when she was at home raising children in the sixties and seventies he gave her no emotional support and very little financial support either. He's a strange, ice cold man and I can see DH turning into him a little more each day and it terrifies me to think he'll be like him one day.

I'd go back to work FT then. Sounds like the toddler is the youngest. He pays for a proportional amount of childcare. Then you will be in a much better position to leave.

There is a strong chance that when you start looking for a job he manages to stop you. However, if you make a real attempt to find a job, it may be enough to have a lever, saying that when you both decided you would be a SAHM you hadn't banked on him treating you worse than a poor Philipino slave. begging for crumbs, while he wastes of money on showing off. You need money to have the same life as him, occasional treats for you & the kids, (hair dresser etc.) new clothes, & don't anticipate having to beg for them for the rest of your life, the SAHM deal was clearly an error, & as he is incapable of behaving as loving supportive partner & father, then things have to change. Meanwhile he can fuck off & sleep on the sofa. As the total lack of love & respect mean that the thought of him touching you makes you want to vomit.
he might might negotiate a larger budget. ?
OR 2nd scenario, you tell him you have had enough of his ego, his coercion & financial abuse & that you are leaving...... He might just be shocked, & not want to lose face into thinking about giving you more money, in which case you can save up for leaving !

I don't understand what you mean about your parents not being close enough for you to move in with. Can you not pick up the children and their clothing and move to your mom and dad's home, lock stock & barrel? The kids would go to school in that community, you would seek a job in that community, etc.

What is it that would be keeping you from moving to theirs? Just curious, sorry.

'What is it that would be keeping you from moving to theirs? Just curious, sorry.'

Um, the other parent might object to that. In court. And that objection would likely be held up in court. You know, because there are two parents and custody would likely be shared.

Right but how far is it, in the law, that one parent cannot take children? Is there a law about one parent taking her children to visit her parents while she sorts things out? What are the distances and timeframes prohibited by law?

My point is the OP sounds desperate and says she has a loving family and the logic would decree that turning to family at this time is the most efficient way out of the untenable situation. I am curious as to why she says that is not an option.

TBH I would hold off going back to work until after you have left.
I went back to work and came home most days to find beds unmade, breakfast stuff still out, no pots washed and DH sitting on sofa playing candy crush as he clocked off earlier than me. Spent all my evenings cleaning, cooking, ironing, etc, whilst he watched TV and got to spend time with DCs.
He just had such little respect for me that he still did nothing.
Apparantly he thought I enjoyed housework!
You will end up a frazzled heap on the floor as he will not change and suddenly turn into the caring, sharing partner you want him to be.

'Right but how far is it, in the law, that one parent cannot take children? Is there a law about one parent taking her children to visit her parents while she sorts things out? What are the distances and timeframes prohibited by law?'

It's a case-by-case basis, of course. Either parent is allowed to raise objection, however, to relatively small distances or indeed, any distance at all. And suggesting she move them 'lock, stock and barrel' and go and look for a job there with intent to stay is not just a visit.

Logic does not apply to this situation because the other parent, despite being financially abusive to the OP, still have rights of reasonable access and/or custody to the children.

This is why we have such silly things are Hague Treaties and such.

As for moving to be near your parents:
would he actually care enough to want 50/50 contact
and does it not make a difference if not married to the father?

'and does it not make a difference if not married to the father?'

No.

This website includes a lot of information the OP should read including a section on the rights (or lack thereof) of unmarried women with children.

On relocation, it says: If you wish to move anywhere within England and Wales you can do so without your partner/spouses consent even when there are children. However, what you do need permission for is to change the children’s school.

www.susanclarksolicitor.co.uk/news-children/relocation-within-uk-with-childen.html

Okay, so you can be unmarried but dad can control where you live.
Can be unmarried and dad can walk away with no legal obligation to pay CM.
How is that fair?

Lea, no disrespect but you don't even live in the UK. It is extremely bad advice to counsel someone to make such a huge move involving children who have two custodial parents without first consulting a solicitor in real life, just be one website. And at any rate, if the parents aren't right around the corner, then she will have to change the older two children's school. Duh.

The dad can control where his children live.

And a NRP is compelled to pay CM whether the couple are married or not.

Similarly, a mother has some control over where her children live, with court approval, if the father is the RP.

It works both ways.

But there are three children involved here, two in school and a property in both their names.

This OP needs to see a solicitor in real life at the least.

Do you have access to bank accounts and can see the balance.

Maybe he's pretending to be flash with money because he doesn't have any, which is why he is controlling with you?

Of course, and I would never offer counsel to anyone via the internet, merely food for thought. Just as the Mumsnet disclaimer advises. Providing shortcut links for the OP to consider taking a look at is hardly dispensing advice or counsel.

I completely agree the OP would benefit to see a solicitor at the earliest opportunity and to ponder the most expedient way to gain her independence from her boyfriend.

What is his salary OP?

Thinking about what he'll need to pay in maintenance.

I am just picturing his little performance in front of your friends when you said you needed money for something, they must think he's a dickhead too.