Financial control. What is normal?

[AngryMo]

I've lost count how many times I've tried to start this thread, and don't know how to articulate it as I don't really know what I want. It ranges from I need to leave ASAP to I might as well just stay.

The many questions that I keep switching between are:

Is DH emotionally/financially abusive? I don't know if I'm imagining it or if it is real.

How do couples manage their finances if one stays at home? I want to know what other people do to see if the way he manages it is normal or not.

Why does he on the one hand, show off to his friends about the money he's spent doing up our house recently and the flashy things he's bought, but on the other, makes me feel like I'm almost stealing his money when I need cash for housekeeping or other essential things for the children (we agreed I would stay home until kids are in school)? Why does he make me account for every single penny like we don't have any money when I know he has plenty? Why did he buy me an expensive gift for Christmas and splash out on expensive wines and things for our guests but then have a go at me for spending £7.50 on a gift for a friend's daughter, which he then checked the price of online to check I wasn't lying?

I'm exhausted living with him and he makes me miserable which can't be much fun for him either. I don't see how he can enjoy being in this relationship either. In the past he's humiliated me in front of friends, reducing me to tears in front of them, he's stormed off leaving me in a restaurant on my own with a full plate after I wanted to discuss what was wrong with us and how we could fix it. I've also had two panic attacks because of how he treats me. He never apologises in person but has by email but even the never spontaneously, always as a result of me telling him he needs to apologise.

Also, he doesn't really react when I tell him we should probably just split up and then pretends everything is fine after an argument's died down. Why does he do that?

I never get any real emotion from him and I don't remember the last time I thought what a lovely person you are. I used to, but that was years ago. I get so jealous when I see happy couples bantering away together, being affectionate with one another.

But then again, maybe I am a complete idiot, what was I thinking giving up my job to look after my children? Why did I hand over my financial independence? Is he right to control my spending so tightly? Should I have to ask every time I need to buy a new bra or want to take the kids out or need to buy a present for a friend? Maybe this is normal, I don't know. Maybe it is all his money and I don't deserve to be spending it. I rarely ask for money for anything frivolous. Maybe because he earns the money, if he wants to spend £2000 on an appliance I have no right to say it's too expensive. I'm so scared to tell him I overspent the other day by accident. He's never been physically abusive but I'm scared of his reaction. Often if I tell him something - anything, not necessarily money related, I wonder why I bothered because it's not worth the grief, so I keep many things to myself and it makes me secretive which I dislike. I am a very open person generally and it's not in my nature to behave that way but I feel forced to.

Thing is though because I am now financially dependent, he knows it's not that easy for me to leave. I don't know what to do. I love my children deeply and they are only small and need us to be together.

Anyone who can relate to me or has any experience, has words of advice, or even to tell me I'm being pathetic, whatever it is, I would like to know.

It seems like it's bedtime. I hope people will be willing to chat to me some more tomorrow. Thanks for your replies.

Sleep well AngryMo.

When we got married I was at uni, he was working. I got a full grant (shows age!) Then worked full time for 4 years till the DC arrived. After that I was a sahm, I did have a number of pt jobs over the years after the DC were about 3-4, mostly evenings, we were very rural and no childcare. DH set up his own business when DC were 7, I have always taken a full role in that (am a partner) even tho I don't go on site I do all the admin, deal with planners, architects and hmrc.
And yes, even when I was putting in nothing financially, I sorted out the finances.

I don't want to make you feel sad, I guess I am lucky to be married to a great bloke.
Don't feel trapped because you are not working, it is possible to reinvent your self, you could go back to work even if it's not in an area you would ideally choose. Think about where you want to be long term, make plans, gather information about "his" finances then you can act from a position of strength.

It sounds awful and he sounds controlling. The details of who is in charge of the accounts and knowing how much is in them doesn't matter, it's the general attitude and insults which are unacceptable.

I'm a sahm and DH has always been the breadwinner. He deals with the bills and we have separate accounts. But we don't view our money as separate and never mention him or me paying for things, it's always us. He transfers money into my account without me ever asking, and we never ask each other's permission to buy anything. I don't always know exactly what is in his account but he would have no problem telling me if I asked (or he wouldn't mind if I looked at his bank statement as he leaves them lying around). We don't have everything in joint names but mostly for various administrative/financial reasons, and I'm happy with that.

I think the advice to return to work so you can start building some savings is good.

Please have a look at the link trackrBird posted. He is abusive financially and emotionally too. Don't expect him to have an epiphany and realise you're right and he's wrong its never going to happen. This is how it will be in a relationship with this man. This is what you're modelling to your children.

Speak to Women's aid as they will help you consider your options and maybe open your eyes to how wrong his behaviour is. If you can get the book by Lundy Bancroft - Why does he do that? I'm sure you'll find your DH in that book.

You can try and look for work but I would predict your DH would put a spanner in the works because he'd then no doubt be expected to do more at home or he'd stop contributing anything. On the plus side you're married so what ever assets there are irrespective as to whose name they are in they're half yours. It may be a bit early for you but you need to LTB.

Angry for several years my hubby asked me about every every penny spent. he did make me feel like I had to justify every cent, but he spent without being accountable to me.
what he was doing was putting together a data base...eventually even I felt good reporting the spending and seeing the monthly pie charts or bar graphs take form.
I could see we were doing this as a family even though he made me feel hurt for spending, somehow when he projected a deficit it seemed to fall on me to "fix" the problem and there is only some much wiggle room in a household budget right?
does he have a financial role at work?
we were better able to discuss this when other aspects of our lives were going well, over time I was able to expess how his control made me feel.
he honestly had a different perception, he really didn't see it the way I did, but when given examples he began to become more sensitive.
our account have always been joint savings and checkings, I have my own credit card in my own name. we each have our own long term saving plans.

we are comfortably retired at a relatively young age, I think the open financial discussions we had were helpful in achieving our mutual goals.

I suggest you have a relaxed discussion with him.

We've always considered our value to each other to be equal, what our jobs valued us at has never reflected that.

So we worked out the outgoings versus in comings and ensure that both of us have equal disposable income. This goes into our own seperate current accounts.

This means that we never have to discuss of justify our own personal purchases. There's no need to to work out if it's fair or if one of us is spending above or below that of the other. I like to track and control my money and save and then spend in one go on bigger things, he likes to spend what he has each month and stops spending when he has none left. That's why our way suits us!

We never argue about money and only need to periodically reassess things when income or outgoings change from the budget.

Anomaly - On the plus side you're married so what ever assets there are irrespective as to whose name they are in they're half yours.
Unfortunately we are not actually married. I refer to him as H because it's just easier and I often do in RL too because people assume and I don't bother correcting them. Our house is in both our names but that's it. How the hell do I leave him though? Can I ask him to move out? Or do I have to move out? How do I do this so the children are protected and provided for before I get myself sorted? What if he refuses to provide for us/them while all this is going on? What if he refuses to move out? What if he stops my phone contract? I am well and truly stuffed.

Speak to Women's Aid. They'll help to put a plan in place. I understand it's hard to get through from 9 - 5. So either wait for the evening or email them. I think someone's put the contact details up earlier.

Thank you, I will contact Women's Aid. Thanks for the link to the other thread, there are tons of links in there. Am so scared for my children and what they will have to go through.

Feeling for you. Our family has always just had "our money"regardless of who was working or earning more. My oh had a number of years as a sahm and had full access to all we have and always would

Speak to women's aid. Get all your ducks in a row before leaving. Good luck.

This feels like a huge step actually contacting women's aid. I don't know what to say, I will crumble if I actually speak to someone. It's like finally acknowledging officially that something is wrong. I keep doubting that this is all in my head and I would be making a huge mistake throwing everything away because I can't envisage how we'd end up. I don't care about me, it's the children.

I don't think you have a choice but to leave really. You can't go on like this. Also sets a rubbish example to children as they get older and more aware.

Have you actually confronted him about this? Ie said to him, why are you so flash with your money in public but question money I spend on a small present? What does he say? I would be picking him up on every single thing he does which is financially controlling. I appreciate you might feel you can't.

I don't see how you can move on unless this is tackled and sorted. Do you actually want to end the relationship and leave? How would he take that?

You're not making a mistake wanting out. He is a bully, they don't improve, and you and the children deserve better.

Do you have your own bank account?

I would go and open one and arrange for child benefit (and any tax credits if you do have those, if he's a huge earner you may not) to be paid into your bank account. At least you will have some money. If you don't have any of those things I would still open the bank account and start squirrelling away any money you can. The odd £10 or £20 will soon add up. If you explain your circumstances to the bank and that you are trying to leave you may find them quite sympathetic and they may agree to send communication only via email (which you can set up a completely free new email on outlook / hotmail that he knows nothing about)!

Your relationship isn't normal. I'm a sahm and my dh and I share a joint account for household stuff where all bills etc go in and out of but we also have our own separate accounts that we both transfer an equal and set amount to for our own spending. We both have the same spending money and both have access to all money and online accounts, in fact I know more about it than dh does because he can't be bothered! We don't have a huge amount of money in fact dh earns barely over min wage and we have two dc one of whom is disabled so we have some benefits as well etc. I wouldn't stay with someone financially controlling me the way your op does - in fact I left my first dh for the same reason.

We don't receive any benefits of any kind. I have my own bank account but don't see how I can save anything, not even a penny because he only puts small amounts in and only after I explain what they are for. For household shopping he's just set up a prepaid card to be used in that store alone so he can control where the money is spent. I've told him I don't like that because it gives me no flexibility as to where I shop and I don't just stick to one place normally. He says he set it up because he gets discounts through work that way but it still doesn't need to be the only option.
Reading this I sound like I've been well and truly stupid to allow it to happen. I need to earn my own money as soon as possible but how can I with a toddler at home full time and two other children to look after? I'm over a barrel.

How perceptive are children...I'm not even crying but my eldest just came up to me and said I think you're a little bit sad, give me a cuddle. I love him so much.

Financial abuse is a form of domestic abuse. An abusive partner may stop you from having control over your money as a way of trying to exert power over you.

A financially-abusive partner may also be physically violent, but it’s not always the case. Financial abuse in the home – whether or not it’s accompanied by aggression or physical violence – can leave you feeling isolated, lacking in confidence and trapped.

It can include:
•stopping you from getting (or keeping) a job
•making you hand over your wages or benefits
•making you ask your partner – or others – for money
•making you account for every penny you spend – for example by showing receipts
•not allowing you to spend money on yourself or your children
•controlling your bank account
•stealing, taking or demanding money from you and/or
•running up debts in your name

You are being financially abused; he is controlling all your access to funds and is making you account for every penny spent. Financial controllers often abuse their victims (the plural is deliberate because your children are seeing all this as well) in other ways like emotional abuse or coercive control like intimidation.

Re yourself working he will likely highjack any attempts on your part to do this.

Please call Womens Aid; they can and will help you leave this frankly dangerous sounding individual who will continue otherwise to make your lives a living hell on earth.

Your children need two loving and mutually supportive parents at home; they have not got this in their home because their dad is abusing you as their mother in multiple ways. Do not do your bit to teach them that this model of a relationship you are showing them is at all normal because it could all too easily become theirs.

0808 2000 247 is WAs number. Do call them and take the first, often the most hardest of steps, to get out of there.

Listen I am a SAHWM.

Prior to DC I used to work FT and earned a decent salary. Since DC, DH pays house keeping into my bank account, pays all direct debits etc and any savings. He really stresses to me, that the money we make is ours.

You are being financially abused. I have never had to account for items/food etc.

Please call WA. You are not happy and this is the reason why...he grinding down your confidence. You called yourself pathetic.....which you are so clearly not.

Call them especially for your children, they need to grow in an environment where partners are equal.

He would say he needs to keep a tight rein on spending because he controls the budgets not me and he needs to make sure I don't overspend, or something equally measured and rational. If you heard him you might think oh he has a point, maybe AngryMo is out of control, maybe she's too flippant about money and doesn't know how to budget or be careful. Maybe she needs to be controlled.

I've told him time and time again that it's not the fact we have to be careful that bothers me, it's his attitude. I have told him this before so he's aware of how I feel about it. Even if I went back to work his attitude would still remain the same and this is what worries me. Things would be masked a bit, as they were, but for some reason he can't stand the idea of truly sharing anything. Ironic really, after Christmas season of good will and all.

If ever I pull him up on him spending a lot of money on something, his standard response is "but that was budgeted for". When do I ever get a say in what's been budgeted for? That's just an excuse to say I'll spend what I like but you won't.

Outtopasture: I've been thinking about him not being able to see things from my angle, and I'm hoping this is all it is, but he has no excuse because I have told him how it makes me feel and he has reduced me to tears as a direct result of being controlling, for example quizzing me on how £100 wasn't enough for the school uniforms I needed to buy (including shoes). It just wasn't, ok, I'm not trying to pull the wool over his eyes, he can see I haven't come home with a Gucci bag and it's a fact that buying a new set of school uniform, PE kit, shoes and all the other bits and pieces can easily add up to over £100. Or am I wrong? Maybe I have no clue about how to shop or where to get the best deals. I am a sales shopper and a bargain hunter and I don't pay full price if I can avoid it. He's probably made me that way.

This is emotional & financial abuse.
IMHO It cannot be fixed, he will not change. In view of this being early in your life. I honestly suggest you get out.
He will go through many stages, including begging, sobbing, promises to change, holidays, gifts. Then venom, threats to take the children away, & to prove you are not a fit mother, & obviously more financial blackmail.
But as I say, in spite of any promises, he ultimately will still be the same person. councilling is unlikely to change him, should he accept to look at his own problems.
I know this scenario. & believe me, you are very lucky to be questioning & recognising it for what it is NOW, & not be bullied & unhappy for decades.
You need to leave. please call WA, & CAB & see what help you can get.

Simile with my ex in terms of public and private face.

Assuming you are really going to split.
Eventually you stop caring. Everyone moves on.

But I would recommend you get your side out first because you can be sure you'll be utterly slated by him.

You have the upper hand at the moment because you can get all your ducks in a row, be fully informed and lawyered up before he knows. So you need to make a plan and start crossing off items on your list.

Yes of course AngryMo he has a well rehearsed defence for his abusive behaviour. Please do call Women's Aid. You might also want to look at the new Coercive Control Law which includes some of his behaviours as criminal. Are there savings? Are you on the accounts? Can you access passbooks or online statements? I would hunker down, seek support and advice about how to leave, and play my cards close to my chest as there may be things you can do to retrieve your financial situation if you don't alert him too much. At the very list you should seek copies of all bank and mortgage accounts and copies of his payslips/tax returns, because you will have to fight for every penny if you leave this abusive bastard.