Financial control. What is normal?

[AngryMo]

I've lost count how many times I've tried to start this thread, and don't know how to articulate it as I don't really know what I want. It ranges from I need to leave ASAP to I might as well just stay.

The many questions that I keep switching between are:

Is DH emotionally/financially abusive? I don't know if I'm imagining it or if it is real.

How do couples manage their finances if one stays at home? I want to know what other people do to see if the way he manages it is normal or not.

Why does he on the one hand, show off to his friends about the money he's spent doing up our house recently and the flashy things he's bought, but on the other, makes me feel like I'm almost stealing his money when I need cash for housekeeping or other essential things for the children (we agreed I would stay home until kids are in school)? Why does he make me account for every single penny like we don't have any money when I know he has plenty? Why did he buy me an expensive gift for Christmas and splash out on expensive wines and things for our guests but then have a go at me for spending £7.50 on a gift for a friend's daughter, which he then checked the price of online to check I wasn't lying?

I'm exhausted living with him and he makes me miserable which can't be much fun for him either. I don't see how he can enjoy being in this relationship either. In the past he's humiliated me in front of friends, reducing me to tears in front of them, he's stormed off leaving me in a restaurant on my own with a full plate after I wanted to discuss what was wrong with us and how we could fix it. I've also had two panic attacks because of how he treats me. He never apologises in person but has by email but even the never spontaneously, always as a result of me telling him he needs to apologise.

Also, he doesn't really react when I tell him we should probably just split up and then pretends everything is fine after an argument's died down. Why does he do that?

I never get any real emotion from him and I don't remember the last time I thought what a lovely person you are. I used to, but that was years ago. I get so jealous when I see happy couples bantering away together, being affectionate with one another.

But then again, maybe I am a complete idiot, what was I thinking giving up my job to look after my children? Why did I hand over my financial independence? Is he right to control my spending so tightly? Should I have to ask every time I need to buy a new bra or want to take the kids out or need to buy a present for a friend? Maybe this is normal, I don't know. Maybe it is all his money and I don't deserve to be spending it. I rarely ask for money for anything frivolous. Maybe because he earns the money, if he wants to spend £2000 on an appliance I have no right to say it's too expensive. I'm so scared to tell him I overspent the other day by accident. He's never been physically abusive but I'm scared of his reaction. Often if I tell him something - anything, not necessarily money related, I wonder why I bothered because it's not worth the grief, so I keep many things to myself and it makes me secretive which I dislike. I am a very open person generally and it's not in my nature to behave that way but I feel forced to.

Thing is though because I am now financially dependent, he knows it's not that easy for me to leave. I don't know what to do. I love my children deeply and they are only small and need us to be together.

Anyone who can relate to me or has any experience, has words of advice, or even to tell me I'm being pathetic, whatever it is, I would like to know.

*at the very least

I don't know how I'm going to call women's aid. I've just retreated upstairs (he is out) but with my kids the ages they are, they follow you around like ducks so I can't get a window to do it peacefully. My heart is beating fast now just thinking about calling them. I still have doubts that he is right and I am wrong and you are all siding with me because I've only told you my half of the story. If you heard his maybe you'd see things differently.

He quizzed me about why I needed some more money for something a couple of days ago in front of our guests and they must have been wondering why he was saying it so loudly (after I took him aside to ask) but they didn't say anything to me afterwards.

I think my parents know what he is like as they've spent a lot of time with us together as a family but they've never mentioned anything to me, maybe they don't want to interfere and we don't really have a confiding type relationship. But I'm sure they must be thinking things, because they are so opposite to him, they are so generous and kind hearted and my father would never ever treat my mother like that.

What if I've just totally skewed things in my head and I am actually unreliable with money? I admit I had an overdraft even when I was working, and it didn't bother me too much. He's cleared that now because he says he doesn't want a single penny of debt. Except we do have a mortgage and had a loan to do works on the house so that doesn't add up either does it. Nothing wrong with borrowing money in one way but not in another? I don't know, I'm so confused. I feel so weak and uninformed. I have no way to access accounts, statements and balances. He likes to say how much he earns but if I ask him for specifics becomes cagey.

Your doubts are normal, and are something that he has been taking advantage of for a very long time.

I'm sure you've managed to place a phone call during the day when you were with the kids before: just use whatever worked then to dial 0808 2000 247.

There is help and information out there, you just need to reach out for it.

But what if I am being totally unreasonable? Someone on the outside might call me a spoiled brat: I have a house, food, a car, holidays, gifts. Why is not having access to unlimited funds a problem? I have everything I need don't I? When I look at it like that I feel like calling women's aid is a waste of time for them when there are women who need help a lot more than me.

Yes it's definitely normal for you to doubt yourself. It's like seeing your life through a whole different lens. He has been working on you, manipulating you and messing with your reality for years. How come you have no access to documents? Is it all online and you don't have passwords? Or is it a locked filing cabinet? Can you call from the next room while DCs watch a favourite dvd? Can a friend come round? The fact that no one has commented does not mean that people think his behaviour is ok.

He is utterly awful.

TBH I would find a job as quickly as you can and tell him he is footing the childcare bill.

You need to separate but get your ducks in a row and finding employment is part of that I'm afraid.

We married long after we had dc and it was always "our" money no questions asked about what it was spent on, we had very little but we were both sensible and we trusted each other and saw each other as equals.

Why is not having access to unlimited funds a problem? I have everything I need don't I?

Because you are not being treated as a full and equal partner. You are a person, worthy of respect on the same footing as any other, your husband included.

The fact that he has decided on a set-up where you are are not equal to him is a huge problem.

You are actually treated like unpaid domestic help, well I suppose a slave.

You are dictated to financially and only allowed to spend on what on where he decides. Then if he feels like it will buy you gifts/allow you things...

His parents' marriage is exactly like that and he's learned that behaviour from them, I'm 100% sure that why he is like he is. His father certainly does not think is wife is an equal to him, even though she is educated and can stand on her own two feet financially. I think all these behaviours have become apparent in DH since having a family and he's subconsciously behaving like his own father. Not in all ways, but in many.
I've commented on this to him before, that I don't like the way they treat each other and speak to each other and he knows. But he just can't stop himself from repeating history. When I hear her complain about her husband, I think that could be me in thirty years' time.

And is that what you want to be doing in 30 years' time?

Random, you have hit the nail on the head, you are so right about that. And it is very relevant to something very recent in our lives and I relate to it very much.

No of course not! I often think it's up to me to change it. And if I did leave him, my mother in law might even back me up because she would know what I'm going through. I think she knows what her son is like and how similar he is to his father, but she doesn't know all the ins and outs because I don't tell her.

Can I assure you you're no spoiled brat, AM.

If the roles were reversed, you would not dream of treating him the same way. No reasonable person would.

Please don't feel pressured or rushed to do anything. It takes time to get used to the idea that something isn't right.

He would need to pay you maintenance. Roughly 20pc of his salary each month.

You are suffering abuse. Please put your foot down.

You can ask him to leave. Print off a financial abuse leaflet from online and show him it if necessary.

I'm panicking so much. In one way I just want to do it like ripping a plaster off, but on the other I know I need to be smart and take the right steps. There are lots of things I need to get in order first. Do I need to put a face on for him? I don't think I can do that but have before. If he tries to be intimate with me I think I might be sick.
I don't think he'll change either. It's far too ingrained.

No-one here has called you a spoiled brat; everyone has stated that you are in an abusive controlling relationship with this individual.

You do not want another week of being so controlled let alone 30 years. His mother has now been subsumed by control; do not let her fate become yours.

What do you think your children are learning about relationships here, what do you want to teach them?.

It is of no surprise to me that his parents marriage is the same; such behaviour can be learnt and that is what he learnt from his parents about relationships.

What did you learn about relationships yourself when growing up Mo?. Did you yourself grow up within a household where power and control were the order of the day too?.

I think it is only when you are free of this man will you realise the full extent of his control. You will certainly need to enrol on Womens Aid Freedom Programme.

Such men take an awful long time, years even, to recover from. Your own recovery will only start when you leave this person.

Your OH is affable, generous & gregarious "outside". No-one knows what he is like behind closed doors.
May I ask, what he would say/do, if you said you were going away for a w/e with your sisters (for example)
or out for an evening with an old work friend
or started a hobby, or go to the gym 2 evenings a week ?

Yes, of course there are people with black eyes, addicts, Yes there are loads of people in distress. But that doesn't alter the fact that your P is abusive & destroying your self respect, your happiness, your life.
It is NOT normal to use coercive behaviour, or finances to control your partner.
WA is often busy throughout the day, can you phone in the evening? does P go out ? could you pop out for a pint of milk, go to your Mums ?

www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/

You need to remember you are his equal and he is only earning x whilst having to spend y because you enable him to do so by staying at home doing all the childcare and domestic duties...

He would not have the same disposable income had you not worked and contributed for years and were not now doing all the unpaid work.

You need to make a decision whether to get a job first then end it or end it then find a job...

TBH I'd be wanting a new car in my own name before I told him it was over... but that is me with my organising planning head on. You need low out goings once you split and having a cheap reliable small car for you and the 3 dc as most of the child related stuff is going to fall to you eve once you return to work

It will help if you can take with you things from this list. Only do this if you’re sure it is safe to do so.

Identification and important papers (e.g. birth certificates, passports, benefit books, bank account details, medical cards, court orders, marriage certificate)
Money

Phone numbers – emergency and personal

Spare set of house and car keys

Medicines and toiletries

Clothes for a few days

A few of your children’s favourite toys

Proof of the abuse (e.g. notes, photos, crime reference numbers, diary, taped messages)

(If there is a residency or parental order in place, consult a solicitor before leaving, or as soon as possible afterwards. Leave a note saying that you have left with the children, that they are safe, and that the solicitor will contact the non-resident parent in the near future. Keep a copy of the note).

How can I help my children?

Talk openly with them and answer any questions they may have, as honestly as you are able, using words that match their age and stage of development

Make sure they know the abuse is not their fault

Teach them that abuse is not acceptable

Help them discuss their feelings. Bottling everything up can create additional pressure. Listen to what they have to say and respond with respect and understanding

Avoid burdening them with adult responsibilities. As much as they may want to help, it is not their job to look after you

Encourage them to mix with other people. Contact with other people will make your children feel less isolated and boost their confidence. They will also have the opportunity to see other men behaving respectfully towards their partners

Help them to stay safe. Teach them to call 999 and speak to the police so they know how to get emergency help. But warn them that it is dangerous to intervene if you are being attacked. Tell them they are not responsible for protecting you

Teach them to reach out for help by doing so yourself. Show them that getting help is a positive step and that there is nothing to be ashamed of

Try to boost their self-esteem by letting them know you love them. Praise them and encourage their interests

You sound just lovely and not a bit spoiled. Some great advice here. Could you think of talking to your parents so you have some real life support? I wish you all the best. You deserve to be happy, loved and respected.

Does he have access to your phone, computer ? if so make sure you change your passwords. is there a iCloud, msn, or other system, linking phones/computers whereby he can read your emails ? if so disactivate it .
You need privacy.
If you are considering leaving, I think you need to be clever & inform yourself first. You are in no imminent "danger", so you can talk to your parents, rl friend... get organised & start looking for a job asap. you will need to work when you leave him, so start actively looking. Yes I know you love SAH & looking after your children, but this sadly will have to change.

Get advice and play your cards close to your chest - use your poker face - just for a short time until you have a plan and the information you need. Please can you say if he has a locked filing cabinet as this is easily tackled?

Men like this make me feel murderous.

Op, to give you more perspective. I am not working at the moment because of my DHs job, which has temporarily taken us overseas.

I do some voluntary work because I enjoy it. All my children are school age. However, we have a nanny/cleaner for a few hours a day because, yes, I could do all the housework, but I don't want to. My DH wouldn't want to either, so he respects that.

I spend what I like, on what I like, where I like, whenever I like. There would be no question whatsoever about that. Actually I don't spend much on myself as, like you, I am not particularly materialistic and don't care much about clothes etc. But, for eg, I need a new laptop and will buy one. It wouldn't occur to me to get permission from DH or to justify why I want it. Because I am an adult. And he gets that.

But there is never any question from DH about what I am spending. When we go back to the uk I will probably be the higher earner and I would never question anything my DH bought.

I have to say my blood ran cold when you said you aren't married. I think you will have to be prepared to walk away with nothing here. But you must get out.

OP won't be walking away with nothing because the house is in both names. I'm surprised he agreed to that. But it is.