Financial control. What is normal?

[AngryMo]

I've lost count how many times I've tried to start this thread, and don't know how to articulate it as I don't really know what I want. It ranges from I need to leave ASAP to I might as well just stay.

The many questions that I keep switching between are:

Is DH emotionally/financially abusive? I don't know if I'm imagining it or if it is real.

How do couples manage their finances if one stays at home? I want to know what other people do to see if the way he manages it is normal or not.

Why does he on the one hand, show off to his friends about the money he's spent doing up our house recently and the flashy things he's bought, but on the other, makes me feel like I'm almost stealing his money when I need cash for housekeeping or other essential things for the children (we agreed I would stay home until kids are in school)? Why does he make me account for every single penny like we don't have any money when I know he has plenty? Why did he buy me an expensive gift for Christmas and splash out on expensive wines and things for our guests but then have a go at me for spending £7.50 on a gift for a friend's daughter, which he then checked the price of online to check I wasn't lying?

I'm exhausted living with him and he makes me miserable which can't be much fun for him either. I don't see how he can enjoy being in this relationship either. In the past he's humiliated me in front of friends, reducing me to tears in front of them, he's stormed off leaving me in a restaurant on my own with a full plate after I wanted to discuss what was wrong with us and how we could fix it. I've also had two panic attacks because of how he treats me. He never apologises in person but has by email but even the never spontaneously, always as a result of me telling him he needs to apologise.

Also, he doesn't really react when I tell him we should probably just split up and then pretends everything is fine after an argument's died down. Why does he do that?

I never get any real emotion from him and I don't remember the last time I thought what a lovely person you are. I used to, but that was years ago. I get so jealous when I see happy couples bantering away together, being affectionate with one another.

But then again, maybe I am a complete idiot, what was I thinking giving up my job to look after my children? Why did I hand over my financial independence? Is he right to control my spending so tightly? Should I have to ask every time I need to buy a new bra or want to take the kids out or need to buy a present for a friend? Maybe this is normal, I don't know. Maybe it is all his money and I don't deserve to be spending it. I rarely ask for money for anything frivolous. Maybe because he earns the money, if he wants to spend £2000 on an appliance I have no right to say it's too expensive. I'm so scared to tell him I overspent the other day by accident. He's never been physically abusive but I'm scared of his reaction. Often if I tell him something - anything, not necessarily money related, I wonder why I bothered because it's not worth the grief, so I keep many things to myself and it makes me secretive which I dislike. I am a very open person generally and it's not in my nature to behave that way but I feel forced to.

Thing is though because I am now financially dependent, he knows it's not that easy for me to leave. I don't know what to do. I love my children deeply and they are only small and need us to be together.

Anyone who can relate to me or has any experience, has words of advice, or even to tell me I'm being pathetic, whatever it is, I would like to know.

He knows I'm pissed off with him obviously but how can he just carry on as normal?

Because he holds all the power in the relationship. It makes no odds to him if you're pissed off. He knows that you are because he commented on your non-appearance on skype. But he's not going to give you what you want, a reaction. He wants you to learn your place, after all.

I agree with tripot

Every time you post Mo it makes me so cross for you (you are doing a fab job at not exploding at him)!

He's away for six fecking months....rarely calls/skypes you or his children, doesn't leave important documents (boiler/breakdown and god knows what else) and doesn't give two hoots about the fact that you have no car and little money! He also knows you are pissed off but posts look how fab I am posts on FB

I know that you probably do have a wobble every now and then and as PP have said separation is never easy.....but, what he is doing is not right.

I know you'll all tell me this isn't true but no one feels as big an idiot as I do now. And there was I thinking I have a very good sense about people but was too effing blind to see it in him. I bet probably most people saw it.

Don't beat yourself up now Mo!

He probably did this little by little, so you didn't really notice.

The fog has cleared and you are seeing him for what he is, that the only real person he cares about and loves is himself.

And have a glass of one of his expensive

Or a cup of [tea]

Everyone opinion of my bully, was that he was convivial, smiley, helpful, amusing, GENEROUS......

In the handbook of life, there should be rules that women (predominantly) should be taught by their mothers, along with
The facts of life/not get pregnant.......the classic points, but also

NEVER have a permanent "live in" relationship without marriage (contract)
NEVER have children with a man out of wedlock ( or contract protection)
NEVER leave your job to be a SAHM (without contract)
NEVER let the P have full & exclusive reign of finances
NEVER accept "housekeeping", joint account or nothing.

please feel free to add your own.

In your own defence, I don't think this 'reversion to type' (the model he had seen growing up, although that doesn't make this not his fault) really became apparent until you gave up work. And at that point you were immediately on the back foot because you were told to be grateful that you were getting to stay at home.

You are doing great mo all abusive men manage worm their way in and start small. It's like boiling frogs in pan. You are one of clever ones woken up part simmer thought, hang on a frogging minute this isn't right. Last month you have come along way. Never lose sight of fact you jumped!

Mix, I do agree that things like how a partnership (not necessarily marriage) should work is something that should be taught, somehow, or at least for young people starting off in relationships to be made aware, not after it's too late, when they've already moved in, or have a child, or a mortgage. I sure as hell wish someone had told me what might be blatantly obvious to some: always have joint access to finance and equal say if you are living together. So bloody simple.

Definitely me giving up paid work was the catalyst for this. It has been going on under my nose all this time but because I had my salary and appeared to have everything I needed, I didn't think anything was wrong - bar perhaps the odd disagreement about spending - e.g. him telling me to reign things in, or me complaining about something expensive he'd bought. But I just failed to see the connection between the two. I really did. I believed as well to some extent I have my account, he has his. I even think I remember thinking having a joint account is actually trouble. Maybe I'd heard negative things said about that. Probably just from an egotistical male (sorry men, generalising) perspective. Maybe even from him, I don't remember.

I've been lurking on your thread since the start and am amazed at how you've remained sane living with this arsehole! By the sound of it he is currently doing a great job of digging his own grave with the emails and FB updates which is good news for you. Keep it all safe and back it all up on a memory stick just in case.

I know it's hard to disentangle yourself from someone like this especially after 15 years together but you are so strong and you are doing the right thing. It will get harder when it's all out in the open, he will blame you and he will get nasty but you've got MN behind you.

When I was going through my separation I created a "Fuck You" playlist - my controlling XH didn't like me buying music he didn't like, I was only supposed to listen to stuff he liked ?! so it was an extra up yours from me to have my own choices on there. He found it when snooping on my pc and was v annoyed but then he shouldn't have been looking! Anyway, a couple of tracks I loved were "every day I love you less and less" by Kaiser Chiefs and "right to be wrong" by Joss Stone, the lyrics really hit home for me.

Cantthink, there's not a lot of sanity left here.

I can't think about the next stage yet, i.e. when it's all out in the open but once I know my legal standing and full options, I'm hoping any doubts and wobbles will thin out and I'll be strong enough to get through it. I'm gathering a small army of supporters too, thank god.

I love those Joss Stone lyrics.

It is always easier once you understand your options so hopefully you'll be clear on those soon. You will find the strength. You are strong. Just keep telling yourself that. I'm a great believer in fake it till you make it!

I wish I'd had MN for support and advise all those years ago as it would have helped so much to clarify my thoughts & feelings with people who get it. There are so many people out there that really don't understand controlling relationships & how much they screw with your head. MN understands!

I used to sing that song all the time to myself as it said everything I was feeling. It helps to have positive "mantras" in your head and this was my main one for a long time.

I keep thinking about his ex. Lucky woman, she got away lightly.

You will too.

Do you think he has another woman Mo?

Fate, no, I was already asked that - no, definitely no other woman. No history or even recent cases of coming home late, unexpected meetings etc- always predictably on time, rarely late, always proof or evidence of his whereabouts.

I came on to say something else but forgotten what it is!

Oh yes. Almost every person I meet or speak to, family, friend, acquaintance, stranger, health professional, shop assistant - whoever they may be ALL say the same thing to me 'that must be tough, looking after three little ones on your own', 'how do you do it?', 'how are you coping?', 'that must be so hard, just let me know if you need a hand with anything' etc. etc.
Everyone is able to recognise it's not easy. Except P, whose three children I am caring for. And he thinks I should get a job on the side too. In my fucking free time. I have a laundry pile the size of Mount Everest, by the time I've put the kids to bed in the evening, I hardly ever even sit in the living room to watch tv and have a glass of wine, I'm just too tired. I'm not asking for any sympathy btw, it's just the way it is. If I had a supportive and caring partner is just get on with it and accept that's what being a SAHM to small kids in this situation is about and it won't last forever. But this current situation is intolerable.
Today's rant over.

I think you're probably angry because you're meant to be feeling grateful for this, Mo. That's effectively what his attitude is about. I am funding your leisurely lifestyle, why the hell are you complaining about it? You want to have access to money, go earn some. PS. I won't take on a single iota of domestic responsibility to allow this to happen. Good luck.

Keeping getting angry, when you see it written down is just rubbish. He really thinks you contribute jack shit to the family. Has he ever had all kids for even 24h on own?

If being SAHM, is not "mentally challenging", it is long hard hours, relentless, up early, & then non stop. Plus the weight of actual RESPONSIBILITY, re their welfare, health, homework, meals, education.. possibly with sleep deprivation thrown in.
I am certain that the P in question, has never fed, bathed, clothed, made beds, bottles, snacks, got them all 3 ready to go out, remembered the spare cloths, the drinks, coats ......& been responsible for all 3 at once for even a whole day or even an hour plus, cook, wash, iron, shop......etc

I mentioned earlier that for a while, DH was SAHD and I earned all our money. (note, our money. did not occur to me to write 'my money').

I tried to imagine if I had treated my DH like your P treats you. And I felt physically sick. Not giving him any access to money, not even for emergencies. Doling out a measly allowance like some kind of a king throwing coins to beggars. Telling him where exactly he can spend this, asking him to justify every little thing he wants to buy.

That's just crazy. Humiliating. Not treating your other half as a partner, but more like domestic help, or an additional child.

I wonder how he even justifies leaving you in charge of 3 children, if you are, in his opinion, not even capable enough to purchase uniforms?

I wonder how he even justifies leaving you in charge of 3 children, if you are, in his opinion, not even capable enough to purchase uniforms?

Because he doesn't care about his children as much as he cares about "his" money. Like, duh!

I think she's good enough for domestic servitude, Katharina. Just not things involving the exchange of money - man's work, you know.

He did freak out once when I was arranging a long weekend away. We booked my flight, then I realised after that it was a bad weekend because it coincided with another thing I'd forgotten about so told him I needed to change it. He freaked out and went a bit OTT telling me things like 'I give you an inch and you take a mile' (because obviously he'd paid for it - yes, I know, what???, you're all thinking - it was an exception and I was flabbergasted he booked it for me) and also, 'I'm not changing it and you won't get any spending money if you do', anyway it transpired the weekend I originally planned he thought he'd have help with the kids (visit from family on his side) so that's why he freaked and told me no.
Big argument, tears, I told him to forget it and just cancel the whole thing. He eventually apologised, admitted it was because he wasn't sure if he could handle all three for that amount of time and rebooked it for a better time, so I forgave him...