DD (22) surprise engagement...worried

[JudoJelly]

My DD is engaged, she is 22. She has been with him for 3 years since they met at the start of uni. They want to marry next christmas. They have never stayed overnight together or been on holiday and refuse to move in together before marriage. She has just got a reasonably well-paid job and we are helping her buy a flat but he is struggling to find a job. I knew they were considering marriage (they are both religious but DH and I are not) but didn't realise it would happen so soon. I have always felt living together for a few years and getting careers sorted was wise.
I'm concerned there is no real spark. They see each other every few weekends (DD is living in our hometown, he is living at their old uni town). DD seems to love the idea of it all and security of being 'sorted' (her words) but I just don't see real, passionate love and excitement. His upbringing and what he wants in life is very different from DDs but she says they'll work it out. It all is very rushed. Apart from church friends, none of DDs friends are engaged. Some have boyfriends but marriage is definitely not on the cards anytime soon!
If this was 4-5 years time and they had lived together (or even just been on holiday or generally seen that they can cope with extended periods of time together) then I'd be overjoyed. I don't believe he isn't 'the one' for her, I just don't think the time is right or see the rush.
Obviously they are adults and can do as they wish. I would not intervene and stop this but words of wisdom/advice would be useful. DD is generally very sensible and open but I know I need to tread carefully.

I don't understand how your DD can afford to get married if she is paying all the bills while her fiancé isn't working. Are you helping her out financially with bills and will you be paying for the wedding? If so, you have some control over when the wedding takes place and can insist on the couple saving up a certain amount as a contribution (wedding will be booked for 18 months time but on condition that they are both working and can pay several thousand towards it). My view is that if they are mature enough to be married then they can start taking some financial responsibility too!

I agree with pp that you need to take legal advice about your DD's flat and think about getting a prenup signed along the lines that he has no claim to the flat until they have been married for a certain amount of time.

Some people get married to very unchallenging partners when they are young as a way of avoiding grown up life. It sounds as if this may be what the OP's DD is trying to do. It is a doomed course of action.

OP I think you've handled it all very sensibly and I've understood you completely. It is natural to be concerned about your daughter's future.

The most important thing is that your daughter feels that she can turn to you and confide in you when she needs to and your understanding attitude will ensure that.

OP, I would be concerned about someone getting married nowadays at 22. It wasn't uncommon a generation ago, but these days very few relationships in their early 20's make it to their 30's, for good reason.

What are your daughter's plans for her 20's? Does she (or he) have life experience? Does she intend to travel? Work abroad? Study further? It sounds like she needs to broaden her horizons a bit. Does her fiancé share her plans? Does he have any?

It's a very narrow path in life to get married so young. I hope it doesn't hold her back, or hit her a decade later.

All you can do is support her & encourage her to broaden her horizons.

Ps sometimes people get married, just because they need a conclusion (as your DD has eluded to).

If you've been together a few years, your next steps might be living together, but if your church discourages this, you'll skip that step & fast-forward to marriage.

I do have some concerns about charismatic churches.

We have one near us - a Baptist church which is known nationally for the charismatic leader - and the teenagers just look so vulnerable and sucked in.

My ex nanny joined in her late teens (her family were not religious) and it dominated her life 24/7 - she was always at some church event - most evenings and all day Sunday. She would say bizarre things to me like "Jesus spoke to me and told me I had to leave my boyfriend (non Christian) and travel to Australia to work with a church" ... She did this and I always wondered if someone in the church had sort of suggested this/brainwashed her somehow, so that she had some sort of false memory that Jesus had spoken to her?

She spoke a lot about trying to find a partner and how she wanted to be the "perfect Christian wife" - when we talked more about what this meant - it was about submission to the male - one example she gave was if we disagree I should always defer to his decision, regardless of what I think.

She was also doing loads of OLD (Christian sites) and the stuff she showed me in texts from there were IMHO bonkers and dodgy - one example was after meeting with one older guy (he was late 30's, she was early 20's) was numerous texts from him saying "Jesus has told me you are so pure and I can see the light of Jesus shining out of you" - this guy had left his wife and 4 children and the ex nanny didnt seem to see how this was conflicting with their teaching.

I do hope that I have not offended anyone here. I am not religious now but was brought up in a very strict RC Irish community and although respect peoples decisions about their faith I am aware that there can be a herd mentality to do "the right thing" in "the right way" - when often neither is "right" for that individual.

So I suppose what I want to conclude is that the OP's DD has a safe place outside of the often all consuming happy clappy church to discuss any concerns - and the fact the she has expressed a wobble to the OP means that this is in place. Well done OP.

Lots of people travel broaden their experiences etc etc and still get divorced, perhaps the dd isnt that interested in that sort of life there is to much put up young people living a little before settiling down some dont want to do that they are not teenagers the have been together 3ish years they are religious so not going to be not going to be having sex with other people
they want to get married it might not happen next year but I do think if that is their plan for now then being supoortive and not act like they are missing out on life is the way to go.

We had a temp work with us for a summer who was marrying as soon as he finished University as he was very religous as was his GF. He was marrying young because they did want sex and just wouldn't before vows. He was very frank in his views and I did admire his resistance. It was interesting listening to him about their struggle to not have sex and his love of God as it is so unusual these days.

I bumped in to him in a restaurant about four years afterwards and he seemed very happy as did his wife.

I would advise any person bringing a large asset to a marriage to protect it regardless of gender.

Some of the posts here really insult OP's daughter's intelligence. As if she at 22 is not able to make these decisions. She is a grown up! And adult. If I were OP's daughter I'd be really annoyed knowing people assumed they knew better what life path to take, how to take my career and private or family life to where I want it to be. Broaden her horizons? Why? Again the idea that you have to live together to be able to have a happy marriage later is a myth and as mentioned before threads on this very forum have proven the opposite. There is really little respect for the daughter's values and choices.

Threads on this forum prove nothing- or indeed I could happily point to hundreds of threads where the op and her dp married young and now in their 30s had nothing in common. But I won't.

The op hasn't argued that they must live together for a happy marriage. She's concerned about a number of factors. She strikes me as a very sensible and loving parent.

I am sure she is loving but she is not respecting her daughter's independence and thinks that she knows better.

There have been numerous threads here about couples living together, having kids and then the woman wanting marriage being upset the guy doesn't. This forum shows that there is no magic formula to make a marriage work. Why do they need to have an argument in order to know how to resolve conflict, go on holiday together? They have been together for 3 years!

I think it's really sad that traditional choices are viewed with such suspicion. I would also be sorry to think I wouldn't have recognised my DD is adult by the time she's 22. There are plenty of 22 year olds managing a job, home, motherhood - it's an adult. I think middle class parents can forget that because they see their child still being in full-time education and needing help with finances at that age. It is an adult.

Living together for a few years first does not make a couple more likely to stay together. It does make them more likely to have a baby together though (and bear in mind that abortion would not be an option for this couple). And while it may seem a bit driven to get married at 22, there are a lot of men and women in their thirties who were overly casual about commitment in their twenties and are now rather desperate to find someone who also wants to be a parent. I think you have as good a chance of finding someone right for you in your twenties as thirties.

A 'Christian' marriage isn't any easier any other marriage but it is nice to know that your husband is committed to loving you as Christ loved the church - that is, with self-sacrifice, loyalty and humility.

Marriage prep can be quite brutal, in a good way. If it's anything like ours, this couple will be required to talk about every expectation they have and discuss how their experiences of being parented (and what they saw in their parent's marriages) may set up conflicting views between them. They will know exactly how much housework each expects the other to do, how much sex, how often each one thinks in-laws should be seen and how disagreements with them will be handled, how children will be disciplined, how their faults may impact negatively on the other, whether they are spenders, savers, clean, slovenly - it goes on and on..

There are numerous threads on here of men and women unhappy with their partner, regretting having settled, regretting they did everything too much too soon. You clearly are not reading these.

I don't see where the op has trampled over her daughters views or choices. She has been v supportive.

I agree with you lost, shame people are so pessimistic and suspicious about religious values and the people that chose to follow them. In my opinion having the same religious views and values is a very good foundation for marriage. And for me my religion gives guidance on how to function within the marriage, and how to handle certain situations. To get to an agreement on these issues, you need to talk, be clear about expectations.

So he doesn't have a job now, OP says he's been struggling to find work, as do many people. And they are not getting tomorrow are they? As much as I believe the husband is responsible for family income (I'm sure many will disagree), if she wants to be the main bread winner for the time being if by the time of marriage he isn't employed, it's her choice. I

helmet I read most threads here. It has nothing to do with age, it has to do with rushing into things. But they are hardly rushing, they have been together since uni, and now have a LDR. So obviously they have spent a lot of time. And on this forum you won't find people posting about how happy they are about marrying young, as this forum tends to be about unhappy relationships, cheating, abuse etc. Just as there are plenty of people happily living together unmarried. There is no 1 way to make a relationship work, regardless of age.

It has a lot to do with age.

You wrote earlier that you think the dd is doing the 'right' thing. The op however is concerned about her daughter.
Is this really not acceptable to you? Are you not allowed to worry about your children past 18?

If your 22yr Dd runs off with a female hells angel in California, will you be a little anxious? I suppose not.

You can still do those things, plonker. I was married very young but I would never put my life on hold and become a SAHM or not live my own life.

When I read the title, I expectedop's daughter to have got engaged after a matter of weeks, or months, not years. Several,of my uni friends met their partners at uni and married within a year or so afterwards. Some have strong Christian faiths ( one is now a vicar), and others not so. They have all now been married for 20+ years.

What op describes was fairly common when I was a student. Today people do tend to live together first, but that doesn't make a different choice wrong. If mumsnet existed 50 years ago, mumsneters would be outraged if they wanted to live together first, the total opposite,of today.

The op,is also concerned there is no real spark. Not all relationships are outwardly lovey Dover, and after three years,s,they have probably settled down in their relationship.

Next Christmas isn't soon, that's a year away!

helmet, she in adult. If people are considered old enough to drink alcohol, have sexual relations, they should be considered old enough to make these life decisions. She is doing the right thing by following her principles, whatever they might be. If OP is confident she raised her daughter well she should not have to be worried. Her worries are based upon her not agreeing or liking the way her daughter chooses to conduct her relationship. She clearly states what SHE thinks is the correct way, which is opposite of what her daughter wants. She wants her daughter to do what SHE thinks is wise. It's not her call.

Ok, no worrying about adults. Got it.

Btw is that a general Christian principle or just your own?

There is worrying and disagreeing the op is not agreeing with her adult dds choices she wants her to live a little first just because the dd isnt the op norm doesnt mean the dd is wrong or making poor choices

You sound like you are doing the right thing OP. I would strongly suggest that you recommend they do a marriage prep course, and take it very seriously.
I would also ask carefully about what exactly his future plans and aspirations are, and make sure she knows you will always be there for her.
If you are worried that they've never spent much time together, maybe suggest they do a weekend voluntary project or retreat type activity together (or go youth hosteling).