Disappointed with your sex life?

[lemonade]

This is a thread for Branster,myself, and anyone else who wants to talk over problems they have with the sex/intimacy side of their relationship.

i don't know why there are 3 smiley faces in my message to reallyembarrassedbut , there should only be one, the first one

somethingsgottagive
thank a lot for your advice. re: deppression in DH, i did wonder. firstly, after having dd i read somwher dads can get it too, so i started asking him questions about how he felt, kept an eye on him etc, just to make sure i'm not missing something in case such a big change affected him like that. but he was fine. his existence in itself is OK: he goes out, has a good job, nice house, lovely kid, nice car etc etc, does things for himself (going to the gym etc), is active,in good shape, helps around the house, gets involved with dd and the house, so raelly he has got a full life as it were. there's nothing major to bother him, any great sadness in his life at all. he doesn't appear to be grieving in any way about his life or anything, not feeling sorry for himself. i really don't think he has depression. when i noticed him getting colder towards me, i did analyse him in my mind, try to discover any possible medical problem he might have (psycological) but there was nothing to find.

he does not comprehend how much this is affecting me, no. when i try and explain to him that i do need daily attention, i do need cuddles, i do need kisses, i need closness, he either says that's not his style (strage though, it used to be so he's capable of it), or makes some excuse ('i'm busy, tired' or says 'i need some space' (believe me he does get enough space) or he just says i'm nagging (that remark really irritates me). i told him i'll get ill, and i was being serious: when people you like pat your back or hug you, you feel better and relaxed -does this make sense?- i need a cuddle now and then to re-energize. he said i was being silly. so we never really talked about it because he brushes me off with some words, and actually his tone and attitude puts me off wanting to talk to him. A few month ago i was in bad mood one day ;a number of things accumulated: not being satisfied in bed the night before, him not giving me attention, i can't remeber, soime minor attitude problems that raelly irritated me and have decided i'll be on my own that day, i just won't talk to him or bother him with aything. ofcousre he started saying what's wrong with me after initially ignoring me too, i said there's nothing wrong (because i'm afraid to to tell it to him straight in case i hurt his feelings), he kept going on and on about it and i refused to talk (another reason i don't like talking to him anymore is taht he is impatient with me, he just snaps at me, makes hurtful remarks of which he forgets later, he raises his voive which i find unacceptable), then he shouted at me 'what the f..k is wron with you?' god, i was shocked, someone (him of all people on the planet) shouting and swearing at me. i just turned my back at him , he went upstairs and sulked. later on he came back saying we need to talk if ther's something wrong here, i told him nobody has the right to shout at me or speak to me like that, i'm not dog, he said we need to sort it out if i get in a mood and he doesn't know what's wrong, i said i'm not taliking to him anymore because he loses his temper like that, he apologised for shouting&swearing at me and i have no words to say to him, it's as if i didn't want anything from him in that moment, i justrefused to talk to him, he said well is that it, is this how our marriage is going to be like from now, do i want us to go to some counselling. i just said to him ther is no real marriage here, we don't do anything together we do everything alongside each other or around dd. and that's the truth. i just left and eventually we strted talking again out of necessity, add a few forced laughs and we're back to playing the perfect marriage. in conclusion, i'm not good at talking, he gets v worried if it all looks suddenly wrong, but nothing works. he didn't change one bit since.
and i'm absolutely confident he hasn't had another relationship. as for the presents, he's just correct like that and remembers dates. i think secretly he likes to give me things which i would use as a way of keeping me under his influence. i don't mean it in a bad way, like when you shape someone to yourself it gives you pleasure to see they like/use what you offer them . i mightbe totally wrong here though.
really i think he doesn't feel he needs to prove to me that he loves me and cares for me everyday. he doesn't think is necessary. maybe...but i really need him to, and he has become so distant.and he used to be close to me.

foxinsocks
thanks for sharing your thoughts. i don't know if he is that'low'. he doesn't appreciate me on a daily basis (small silly gestures, they don't exist), sex is not always available (not that i'm pursuing him all the time), when it is it's not of the intensity i need it to be but he's sorted (that sounds so crude!) and i don't get at least a cuddle at the end of it (this is very upsetting. tried to explain to him it's very important to me, but he doesn't register). anyway, i make the best of what's on offer. it may well be he doesn't percieve me in a sexual way anymore but what else can i do?? i don't know, what else can i do?. yes, the flirting thing is v dangerous with dh around. i don't know if i would be able to. i'm usually quite discreet. hmm...i'll have to think about this. otherwise he has a pretty good life to keep him busy and fullfiled. and since dd arrived i was sure he didn't have to suffer as a result but ofcourse he helped when he wanted, and he's good at this parenting stuff, i always tell him how good he is.

last one tonight 'cos it's not my personal thread. anyone else in the same boat as us? have you ever felt rejected and it all worked out in the end for you? how can you get your partner to be close to you again? does it ever happen?? night, night all!

Bran, thank you - I think the flirting thing just re-inforces the idea that my DW might just not fancy me, and that makes me wonder if she ever did.

i haven't changed since we met, i'm still pretty much the same shape and size, doing the same things, the same sort of committments, all that's changed is our lifestyle, which i thought was something we were doing together.

good morning reallyembarrassedbut! i am pretty sure she must have fancied you at some point in your relationship otherwise why did she marry you and had your children?! since we still don't know why is she making you feel rejected at present, we'll assume that the most likely reason would be her low self image. Does she go out to do things for herself (beauty parlour, hairdresser, gym, that sort of thing)? why not book her in for a week-end at one of those spa places? i've never been myself, but all my friends who went to such places (mostly because it was a gift from someone else, some of them reluctant to do it to start with) absolutely loved it and if they could afford it they would go all the time. Or give her some money, you take care of teh kids for the day and send her out on her own to do some shopping for herself or visit a museum, see a theatre play etc. Just an idea. Shallow stuff, i know, but no worries involved on her part, she can jsut do whatever she wants. You might have already done that, i don't know. Obviously, it's not going to be cheap, i don't know what your situation is, but if you feel she'd worry about spending money on such frivoulous things, jsut use a white lie (i.e. someone at work gave you these vouchers for a spa at a special deal/discount). Is this any good?

I try to do as much as I can - at the weekends at least I try to give her time to do things she wants to do, and I get to spend time with the Kids, which i love doing anyway, and I try to do my bit around the house generally, though inevitably as she is a SAHM she ends up doing a lot more than me while I'm out at work.

She has her hair cut, but I think everyone does! She also does buy herself nice clothes, but not as often or of a quality that she would like or deserve - we're neither poor nor rich, and she's sometimes a bit too cautious, and sometimes we just haven't got the money.

The one thing we never do is spend time with each other, let alone just the two of us, apart from those few flaked out hours in the evening at the end of the day.

I think we've got out of the habit, and I suppose we could somehow engineer it, but it's probably too late, we'd not know how to relate to each other, and the few times we've come close to going out it's always fallen through, or we've had something we've had to do, which makes me wonder, again, if it's something she'd rather avoid.

I should make it clear, again, that i can cope with things like this. It hurts, and it makes me want to cry, but i can suppress all of that as long as it means things won't get any worse, i don't want any more confrontation to wear away at what is left of our worn and thin ribbon of relationship.

Wow! I've been away for a day, and there's been so much happening! Dh is back home so last night was spent updating him on all the things that happened in the week. Kids' health, car stuff, finance stuff etc. Thank you so much to everyone for writing. As my first message said, this thread is for anyone who wants to be here. I'm going to read through again and try to form my own proper message soon. l xx

My relationship was like this Branster and eventually someone else started flirting with me and gave me a much needed hug and eventually after many months I had an affair. I just craved the closeness and affection I wasn't getting from dh. I knew it was wrong but it felt so right. As soon as I realised I was fallin g in love (before anything had actually happened) I told dh I wanted to leave.

We had loads of counselling at relate and I realised it was dh I wanted. It took dh about 6 weeks of counselling before he could even see that there had been anything wrong with aour relationship! But when he finally realise dit was like an 'aha' moment and from that point on he started to change. He had never been touchy feely when I met him, and I was wondering how on earth could I get somthing back that hadn't been there in the first place?

But it worked and my marriage is better than it ever was before all this trauma. But I have to say that it took 9 years for the breakdown to occur, 9 years of basically emotional neglect which was soul destroying for me. I am not making excuses for the affair, but the counsellor said that with such a lack of closeness it was inevitable that one of us would have strayed and it could just as easily been him, if not then but at some point.

So I would say catch it now, before either of you has an affair, and have joint couselling. I am sure if we had done that (i,e if I had been brave enough to force the issue) I would not have had so long being lonely and I am SO much happier now. The sky is bluer and the grass is greener.

reallyembut - do you have anyone who could look after the children for a couple of days, then plan a weekend away (here or Europe)?

You sound very defeatist about it all (I can understand why)and I think all of us on here want things to work out for you because you sound like a nice bloke.

If you planned something (you'd need to do it as a surprise) that cost a reasonable amount of money then its more difficult to cancel.

Even an overnight stay somewhere nice in this country. Plus, if you want, book twin beds rather than a double bed; make it clear that you're not planning to try and seduce her.

If she has a poor self image/low self esteem then this is something I can very much relate to.

I do not like being paid compliments etc as I don't believe them - not because I think the person giving them is lying, but because they immediately remind me of how badly I feel about myself. I just think "so what" if you think I look lovely etc - I believe I'm unattractive/boring/useless - I wish you'd shut up because I don't need reminding of my self esteem problems.

I know it sounds really odd, but lack of self esteem is like this - its self defeating.

The weekend away idea might not appeal, but the reason I'm suggesting it is because it seems as though you and your dw need to become friends again. Forget the hugs, kisses and the sexual aspect - you don't seem to be friends anymore. I'm just wondering if this is the level on which you can appeal to your dw ie, can we try to be friends and just forget the rest of it for now (you are forgetting the rest of it at ther moment anyway).

My dh and I were pretty much at the point where you are - not his fault but I basically withdrew myself from the relationship. Slowly, very slowly, we are becoming friends again.

Plip - Thanks very much for your message. I've felt that I could be understood for having an affair with things the way they have been for such a long time. And dh accepted that when we talked after my visit to the solicitor. Now I see that he, too, could be vulnerable to one. That knowledge is valuable. I think he'd be devastated if he did. That sounds odd, but I think he'd find it very hard to cope. It's something to bear in mind. I'm so glad that it worked out for you both in the end.

Reallyembarrassedbut - Please excuse me if I've not taken in all the postings. You do have to spend time together in order to keep your relationship alive. I know how hard it is with young children. It gets so much easier when they're in school full time and then going to Rainbows, Cubs etc. Is there a church Sunday school/ creche / other group that they could go to on a weekend for a few hours? (Sorry, I sound such a hypocrite. Why am I trying to advise you when I'm in such a mess?) Is there an evening class your dw would like to go to? Being a SAHM can be very lonely. In August (ish) we have a brochure through the door from the local college. There are lots of courses available. Also, I keep meaning to contact them as sometimes they're looking for models for the kids doing beauty courses. It's possible to get free or vastly subsidised manicures, haircuts, facials etc. Could you look over your photos from when you were courting or your wedding album? That might remind her of happy times you enjoyed together. Or from a holiday you know she loved? Also, don't feel bad for flirting with 'safe' people! That's exactly the right way to flirt IMO! A few years ago I was in a great office and the flirting/ribbing was rife at lunchtime! It was fantastic fun and we all had a great time. That's what flirting is. No-one swapped phone numbers or made dates (except for the young, free and singles who were entitled to!) I fully understand what you said about layers. I feel the same. Risk peeling another one and you might be left with nothing. I also understand that you said you can cope with things the way they are. Yes, but it's making you SO UNHAPPY. If you can make things improve, then great, and if they don't improve, you'll know you've tried. I'm scared of trying, too. More than I can say. BUT I don't want to stay unhappy for more years. I tried to bring myself to be cuddled after the visit to the solicitor when we said we'd try again and I couldn't bear it. I need to get over that. I listened to myself talking to dh yesterday and I was a horrible petulant shrew. I was shocked at my behaviour. I'm so unhappy that I now find it hard to be truly civil.

Branster - Thanks for your messages. I need to re-read them thoroughly, but I've got to go now. Also, if you read above you'll see that I'm looking at my behaviour and am realising that I'm doing to dh what he has been doing to me. I see my friend doing it to her dh and NOW it has dawned on me that I'm doing it, too. I delayed opening his gift to me from holiday then thought 'Why am I behaving like this?' I then opened it and, yes, it was disappointing. Things I like (smellies) but no imagination and costing all of about £5. I read in one of the Postings the question of whether a dh could have depression. I've wondered that about mine, but he is trained in work to spot things like that and his boss (now retired) was excellent and I would've thought he'd spot it. Not that either of those would make him able to see it in himself. I've just realised! My dh has to see our GP about something. My GP knows all about our marriage. I don't know if he (the GP) can find a way of asking, but I could mention it to him before dh's appointment. Also in one of the postings somewhere it mentioned the pill dulling libido. I've used it in the past mainly for this reason. Dh isn't interested in sex so it made sense (to me at the time) for me to use the pill so that I was the same. It sounds stupid to me, now. Sorry that I haven't answered your posting yet. I will do soon. I set myself the deadline of an hour on this thread and that it now up. l xx

I don't think my DW would be at all pleased - I'm not sure i know what she wants anymore, and we seem to have reached a level where we function without things getting worse, and she seems happy with this. Maybe she just doesn't want ayone in her life, or maybe she will run off with someone attractive one day, I just don't know.

I tell her I love her, and she doesn't seem to notice, like the words don't mean anything anymore.

I really miss being hugged. Sorry, I'm not adding anything to the thread, but I'm off home soon, and I would really like her to embrace me when I get in, and I know it's not going to happen, so I know I'll go home as slowly as possible, so the evening doesn't last too long.

reallyembarrassedbut - I'm so sorry that you're feeling so hurt. I can understand why you feel the way you do. Sorry, I'm trying to write, but I feel frustrated because I don't know if I'm helping. I'm willing to listen and respond, anyway. Not much, but I want to help. It's so wrong for you to feel that your home isn't a place where you truly belong. Please talk to your dw again and if that doesn't work, try your doctor. I saw someone through my doctor for a few months. The counselling helped me cope with a situation that I couldn't change. I don't know if that helps. Take care and remember that we're here for you. l xx

Lemonade - I wrote you back a long message on the 18th (which took ages with my typing), then dh walked in, I panicked and shut the computer down without posting, so here goes again...
Firstly . I relate to the TV/remote scenario, except every time I tried to say something, he would turn the volume up!! Threatening to kick the tv in helped slightly.
How we started talking? Prepare to be shocked/chuckle - we were p*** at the house of very good friends and ended up snogging each others' partners (subject matter for another thread sometime I think). It really went on from there. Yes there have been times in the past when I've had a go at him and its been better for a week, but I'd been building up to this for literally years, making myself strong enough to carry anything I said through. He's finally realised that HE has to make the effort - and make it every day while he wants to stay married. He was gutted when he realised that I didn't love him and that it would be difficult to regain my trust - but theres a glimmer there on the horizon!!! I think some people simply don't realise the impact they have on their partners (self-absorbed?) and its a question of making them understand. DH just didn't realise how much he had hurt me by his actions - ignoring me, belittling me etc
Lastly, its a question of looking forward, not back, both for us and the kids.
We had a giggle today - I creamed his balls with hair removal cream (Louis Marcel) - but I practiced on myself first to show him - I now have a Mohican

quote{}we were p*** at the house of very good friends and ended up snogging each others' partners (subject matter for another thread sometime I think). /quote{}

plumps cushion

Welcome back lemonade! Isn't that shocking?! You start mirroring the other's behaviour after a while! I found that myself, dh got more distant from me, stopped hugging, kissing me and later as I realised what he was doing I stopped going up to him to offer him such gestures. he would just brush me away or would respond as if he was forced to, no real passion or love is such small gestures and eventually it put me off trying. I used to greet him like a little puppy, all smiles, get a cup of tea ready, ask how his day was etc, but he was always avoiding me, being blunt with his answers etc. At least he's really, really sweet with dd when he comes home, so I don't even interfere in their little meeting. He doesn't ask what I've been doing (to be honest I wouldn't have any news of interest to him, I feel as if he finds my little stories dull and humourless). before he goes to work he comes to say goodbye to dd and he kisses me , but it's such a forced gesture I feel, but still I'm so grateful I always end up with a big smile on my face but then I see him so unimpressed with me I have to stop smiling, I feel really stupid. so yes, you stop doing what they stop doing. and I take any opportunity of getting a cuddle, but he just stands there, I have to wrap his arms around me. how sad is that? he doesn't hug me, I tell him I need him to hug me like he really means I, then I just walk away because he doesn't do it. I feel like a pussy cat following him like this, but at least one is happy to pat a cat and finds its company relaxing, he doesn't with me. it hurts. he used to like me snuggling up to him on the sofa. not anymore, I have to sit on a different sofa now because he can't stand sharing with me. so I just go and sit in a different place of my own accord. how long can a girl keep trying for? he knows a I need him to be close to me, I always tell him and encourage him, but as it has been pointed out here, he is not aware of the magnitude of my hurt.
I never talk to anyone when I have any kind of problem. somehow I always manage to get things sorted. not this time. and I threw myself in this thread here, having re-read all the messages I was embarrassed at seeing how much I told everyone about myself, about us. it scared me and I felt like backing up straight away. however, I take comfort in your messages, and to see that everyone has some coping mechanism or got help and are OK now. as for counselling, I wouldn't want to do it myself. we should be able to do it ourselves. but we're not sharing anymore. something will have to happen probably, one of will get scared of something and we probably need desperation to start talking again. and yet, I'm still so tempted to meet someone. I'm so ashamed... but I still fancy him. I looked at him yesterday and he looked so handsome, I told him so, he enjoyed the attention, I touched him and again he moved away from me.

reallyembarrassedbut, you sound like such an ordinary family, just like us. I think I start to understand where you're coming from. like lemonade I'm not quite sure what you make of what suggestions I try to give, but I read all your messages. what a nice husband you are. unfortunately, like yourself, I would hold back from talking again. sorry, wrong advice here but I don't know what else to say at moment. I'll try tomorrow.

plip, thank you so so much for posting here. I am really happy you're over your problem. what a change in the situation though, you sound so positive about they way things are between you too now. It's amazing.! One thing that bothers me though, and don't feel you have to answer this as it's such a personal question: you say you did end up having an affair as a result of being neglected by dh. How come he took you back? Sorry to sound so crude here... If I was to have an affair and dh would find out (in an ideal world he wouldn't find out, but all these are dreams at the moment), I wouldn't stay with him anymore, I don't know how he would react, but I would be to ashamed to stay.

somethingsgottagive, although I can't directly relate to your experience, I find your advice to reallyembarrassedbut very useful. it is very possible your past feelings are what dw is feeling right now.

On a lighter note, I didn't know the pill might affect a woman's libido. If that's the case I have no intention of coming of the pill, it might turn me into a sex crazed maniac. and to finalize tonight's message: I would suggest we try and start up an American style therapy trend: hugging groups. we'd have so many customers! we'd be millionaires. I'm sure the advertising would be hilarious! Night, night all!

yes, i'm intrigued too, what is p ?? Bobs you're really funny, i giggled when reading your posting. What a positive story though. Thanks for sharing with us. Now i wonder what sort of friends you've got and how do i go about p . Have no idea what it means. Would we ahve done it before?

bobs, your removal cream story would be v encouraging for stuartc on the 'have you ever had a brazilian wax' thread. i'm trying to make him get a trim and he keeps putting it off

Bobs, your last post did make me laugh.

Lots of new messages here. I must do some housework but I'll be back to add one of my own. I have to say it, we are a nice bunch of people!! Some bits seem a bit mad and remind me of my Young Farmer days!!

Bobs - Thanks for your message. It was funny. Thanks for taking the time to write to me - twice! I think what hurts me is that I warned him not to carry on so many years ago and yet he did. He shuts down the emotional side in difficult times. It's his way of coping. I'm thinking of what to do and your message is helping me. What have I got to lose? If I try and it doesn't work then I've lost nothing. Except, to be absolutely honest, I don't know if I do want him anymore. If it wasn't for the children I know I'd chuck in the towel. Can you try again when at least one person's heart isn't in it?

Branster - Thanks for your message. Don't feel ashamed for fancying him! It's all the other men in the world you're not supposed to fancy too much! (Tom Cruise in Top Gun is allowed; and I have a VERY SOFT SPOT for Ben Fogle - he is 100% lovely). Sorry, I'm dribbling.

As for being able to sort yourselves out, please don't think that you SHOULD be able to do it. If your house wall falls down, you call a builder. Counselling should be thought of in the same way. Of course it isn't, but IMO it should be.

You're beating yourself up for being openly loving and affectionate. You shouldn't. You're in the right. I wish I'd called this thread "Where is the love?" as in the Black Eyed Peas song, as that's what we all want. To be loved openly and freely by our partners.

I told my dh years ago what he was doing. I think you need to spell it out to your dh. Otherwise, what's the likely future? He carries on and you either stay unhappy or you have or he has an affair or you divorce? None of those are nice options. He needs to know that he's starving the relationship before it's too late. Sorry, I sound really harsh. I've been married 12 years. All unhappy. You don't want to be me. In 5 or 10 years you might be. Sorry, again, I sound like I'm being mean to you. You sound lovely, you deserve a loving partner. Please tell me off if I'm being too harsh. I don't mean to. I'm trying to help. l xx

reallyembarrassedbut - Please add an excellent soh (not just a gsoh) to your personal cv! I loved your plumping cushion bit! If you haven't ever thought of a personal cv, why not do one? Just for you. Rip it up once you've done it if you want. Put down 'Good father to my children'. 'Good listener to my mates Tom, Dick and Harry'. 'Loving husband'. Whatever applies to you. You're a nice guy. Tell yourself that.

Ok. What about YOU doing an evening class? In an ideal world, what would you like to do if time/money was no object? Art? A language? Creative writing? What about choosing something and doing it at home in the evenings? You can get books from the library to get you going. Just give it 15 mins a day and see how it goes. I know it doesn't help things at home directly, but maybe it will indirectly.

Do you meet up with your friends often enough? If not, could you make the time to do it? Maybe once a fortnight at the pub/leisure centre? If you're saying 'No' then what would you be able to do? What would you like to do in your spare time? l xx

lemonade, thanks a lot for your message. I don't think you're being harsh or mean at all. You're sharing your own experiences with me / us and i really appreciate it. And i preffer to get an objective view of what's likely to happen, from the outside it's easier to be realistic about somebodyelse's options and that's what i need. i try and be as logical as i can about it all by now, it took forever to notice it, then to try and do something about it and now i'm at a stage when i can be a bit more detached and think straight. i haven't got time at the moment to write more, i'll try tonight though. thanks again lemonade.

PS i've figurred out what p..... stands for. it's not as rude as i thought (that's if i'm right!)

Reallyembarrassedbut - I think you should confront your wife about what is going on. Remember me? The one who started the I hate sex thread. I can see that your situation is worse than mine, but you are entitled to something from her, be it a loving relationship or simply an explanation. You don't seem to know what is going on inside her and I think she should feel obliged to tell you. Afterall, when you married, you began a commitment together and if she is backing down from that, she should at least be able to tell you why. To be honest with you, although my dh and I haven't had sex for longer than I will admit, entirely because I dread it, there are many days when if he took the initiative and kind of forced me into doing it (I don't mean rape) then he would get what he wanted and deep down I would respect him more. Maybe your wife is the same. Perhaps she wants you to take control more. Even very independent and dominant women (and I speak as one) sometimes like to be ruled over. It sounds hard, but you sound so incredibly nice and caring and sensitive and amusing, and you say you love your wife to pieces, but maybe that is part of the problem. Nice men are attractive to women, but also, as you said, very safe to flirt with. Perhaps you need to dig deep inside yourself and find the harder you.