Think DD has just destroyed relationship with DH her dad. Final straw.

[Facefacts]

After a long rocky period with DD 17, I thought things were getting better. Again, tonight, DD determined to get her own way. Wanted boyfriend to come over we said no as I had to be away all day and overnight, husband had to leave later as working away. So after I left mid afternoon she has massive argument with poor DH who is already having counselling (partly from previous rocky period as well as other things). She is so unsympathetic and uncaring and verbally very attacking. DH in pieces, DD just continued attack. And flounced off to boyfriends saying would be back for 11. Just arriving back now. Refused lift back and DH couldn't face scene if just went to fetch her. He now has two hour drive and has to be up early. He's broken and I'm fuming with her. She has a brilliant social life. Saw boyfriend 2 or 3 times in week. Nightclub Friday and friend stayed over Saturday. Don't know how this is going to go but we have been on edge of throwing her out before for stunts like this. Is this what we have to do to save DH from total breakdown. When she decides she is doing something there is no compromise, no care of the impact on others. It seems the more understanding and caring we are the more she takes. Someone please give me a plan to change this before she throws away a lovely home and family.

Reading between the lines I have some sympathy with your DD. Yes, her behaviour is unpleasant but you and your DH both sound like you use 'getting upset' as a way to control her. Just a guess, but in her shoes I'd use an over-the-top 'I don't care' attitude as a way of pushing back against parents who were trying to emotionally blackmail me like this.

It sounds to me as though both of you need to learn to separate your own feelings from the way your DD responds to you. She's not responsible for your emotions and it's wrong to imply to her that she is. Equally, you are not responsible for hers and you can refuse her things and listen to her tantrums without taking it personally.

You all sound very enmeshed and frankly I'm not surprised she's acting out.

I think some fault has to lie with OP and DH you stated 9 out of 10 times you have given in and her behaviour started at 13/14. You have ineffect created the way she is by enabling her behaviour over a long period of time. You need to hold your hands up and take accountablity for this if you want change. You need to take charge, her behaviour wont be tolerated and she will lose privledges as a result. Pocket money, lifts, friends staying over. You are not there at her becokon call so you need to snap out of it. OP and DH your the parents here. She is growing up and 17 is a transition stage from child to youg adult but she should respect you and the house rules. I was 18 at uni and came home after a nightout and where questioned about coming in on the morning. You never stop caring and respect needs to be earnt. Your husband saying hes a wreck isn't helping and if anything making the situation worse. I would suggest he seeks help himself for his own issues

You daughter sounds utterly vile, everyone understands teenagers being selfish, self absorbed parasites, but smashing stuff up in her own house smacks of borderline mental health problems or anger management issues at best. That is TOTALLY unacceptable. If it has got to the point where you are seriously considering kicking her out she needs to see someone as it sounds like she needs counselling of some sort. No one wants to be a prisoner in their own house.

blindsider Really? Teens with mental health problems are utterly vile?
Lovely

Yes, that wasn't particularly well worded - her behaviour sounds vile!! Better?

this isn't a problem with your 17 year old, this is a problem with your husband's inability to handle himself with a seventeen year old. Him being mentally fragil will do nothing to make her brain rewire itself for adulthood quicker, and all this ridiculous talk about asking her to move out is unhelpful in the extreme.

There is no reason why any of this had to happen.

It does not seem coincidence that OP has stated a few times of all the things they have done for their DD - driving her where she wants to go, buying her what she wants etc. Is she grateful? Well no, she has had her own way for so long and used bullying tactics to get what she wants, and up to now she has learnt that this has worked. She knows they have always given in in the past and so she is expecting this to continue.
Are the things that have been given and done for her - too much so up to now- been done out of the OP's guilt for time away? I am wondering if having both of her parents away is a one off, or have there been many times over the years where you have been unable to be physically present, and so these things are done and given, to try and make up for that.
She has a great social life, too good to fit in homework? Not on, where has the discipline been, have there been any rules, has she been allowed to break them all? So far she has learnt that bullying gets her what she wants, inadvertently, the OP and her DH have taught her this. What should of been learnt over the years is that she has more chance of getting what she wants by doing her work, chores in the home, towing the line and not inconveniencing them to benefit herself- all life skills that you are not benefiting her by not making her do.
More, "YES, when you have done X" required, and she needs to understand that she has to do the tasks before she gets a benefit (which also has to be reasonable), promises don't count. "NO", has to mean "NO", not "YES, if you bully us".
Also, as she is approaching 18, it's time she sorted her own transport to anywhere she goes, she has a part time job so she should be funding herself and need little from you other than a roof over her head and food. If she can't afford to do things, that's another lesson learnt.

Blindsider when you are a teen on the verge of being an adult and you are having to walk on eggshells, be responsible for your parents moods and feelings, deal with hysterical over reactions and controlling behaviour you would lose your rag to. 17 yr olds are very rarely emotionally intelligent enough to articulate their deepest feelings in constructive ways.

It's a hell of a lot easier to blame a teen than to give yourself a long hard look in the mirror.

We were asking, for once for her to put us first. For the first time in months.

This caught my attention. I think the problem is that she has been put first her whole life. People think putting their kids first is a good thing. It can end up here, depending on the child's personality.

OP, you and dh do need to accept some responsibility here, but not in a massive guilt/ paralysing way. Just that, "A large proportion of her behaviour is the result of the way we have dealt with her, but we are going to change this." That will take away some of your anger against her, as well as motivating you to get the help you need with her. It doesn't matter if she won't go to counselling, you can go. You can get strategies for how to deal with her, you can let off steam about her in a safe environment, it will bring you and dh closer which is a great thing. Don't risk losing your relationship with your dd forever over a few bad years.

Bitchpeas

I have been a teenager and frankly that sort of attitude is partly the reason we are raising a generation of self absorbed kids with an air of entitlement. If your parents don't want you to invite your BF over at short notice as it isn't convenient - Tough. When she owns her own place she can make her own rules.

Not inviting the boyfriend over is absolutely fair enough it's their house. Forbidding her to go out then the hysterics is not.

It's not about rules it's about teenagers having to learn for themselves, learning when to let go, and the pressures of living with a parent with mental health issues.

Blindsider when you are a teen on the verge of being an adult and you are having to walk on eggshells

Does this seriously sound like the behaviour of someone 'walking on eggshells'?

If your parents don't want you to invite your BF over at short notice as it isn't convenient - Tough

To an extent, I agree with you - in as much as a teen shouldn't be pandered to and if there is a good reason why the teen can't have their own way (as opposed to just the parent wanting to be in control) then that's how it should be.

What shouldnt happen is that when that teen objects/argues/strops, the parents then hold the teen responsible for the way they choose to feel about that behaviour. Look at the Op's thread title - she blames her DD for damaging the relationship she has with her father.

It sound to me as if the situation in the OP's household has escalated over time to the point that the DD is reacting violently. But, I'm fairly sure it didn't start that way. Normal family situations when the DD was 12/13 were escalated by the OP and her DH applying pressure to their DD to "consider their feelings" and "not to upset them" when she argued or stormed off. The DD has now reached a stage where the emotional toll of considering her parents feelings has led to explosions of rage.

OP, I think I've read past threads of yours, forgive me if I'm wrong here.

The way you've described her (and in the past maybe) makes me think there is more going on, AS, PDA, something like that.
Even if you disagree, it would be worth looking at the strategies for teenagers with this.
I would say that there are too many expectations which you know you can't make her stick to (I have a 10 yr old with PDA, so whilst I can't yet relate to teenagery stuff, I can relate to complete disregard for boundaries, which looks like crap parenting from the outside!).

Personally I would back off loads, and given clear warnings as to when she can be driven around, and when you are having a night off from taxiing, then stick to it.

Maryz has given excellent advice.

I'll leave this link about pda in case you find it helpful.

OP, I don't mean to be unkind but it's very unfair to make your dh's problems something you put partial blame on your dd for. A parent is responsible for their relationship with their child, not the other way around and you can't make your dd be the person you want - you have to let her go through the issues she has and come out the other side. I am not for one minute saying it's acceptable for her to break things. But it sounds to me like this issue goes way back in terms of when it started and how.

Some of the things you say remind me of my own mother who is emotionally manipulative and also says/said things like 'put us first for once' as well as recounting all the things she ever did for me and blaming me for my dad's ill health.

It sounds like the situation is now very complex but you need to be honest with yourself first of all about your role as a parent. It's your job to love her and give her the tools she needs to be independent. It's not her job to shoulder the responsibility and worry for you and your dh's problems.

When there is very difficult and violent behaviour in the home, it's very difficult not to take it personally, and near on impossible for it not to affect you mentally.

It's difficult. you have a house, your rules, then a child grows up and maybe wants people back when you don't want. I can understand if she was having a mini party when you are sleeping, but you weren't there.

It leads I think to those threads where parents throw sulks and tantrums because grown up child is not respecting them I.e. Doing what they think is right.

It's difficult letting go. She's perhaps a bit frustrated, school not going well, but expected to stay...you lash out to those who are there your parents.

I did not spend any evening as a 17 year old in the house with parents. Either my bf was there or I was at my bf...

I am shocked reading some of these replies.

The OP is having a terrible time with her teenager and has come on here looking for support. The fact that some of you have had a worse time doesn't mean you should be harsh on her. We all have different things which will press our buttons. Some of us are not as good at dealing with conflict as others. Some of us get very, very upset at something that might not upset others. We are all different and just because something that's upset the OP hasn't upset you, it doesn't mean she should be spoken to as though she's stupid.

I was like this as a teen
I think a lot of it for me stemmed from my mothers depression, from 14 I was responsible for myself and my younger brother. When she had a bad episode I ran the house. Everything was always about how it effected her. I was seen as responsible for my mothers emotions. That's a big thing to stick on a young teen. As a result I became very resentful towards my mother and the situation ended up very similarly to what you describe.
If we had a row, everything was about how my mother couldn't cope with me, why would I upset her so, how could I do that to her etc. And I just didn't want to deal with it anymore. Just trying to give a bit of a different view about how your dd may feel about your dh being broken over this.
I just wanted to be parented. I knew if I kicked off for long enough I'd get what I wanted. But I didn't want or need that. I needed boundaries. I needed to be mothered and parented properly.
I don't really have any advice. But things with my mother are a lot better now I'm in my twenties. We have some distance, I refuse to be responsible for her happiness and now I'm older I see that's okay.

Some of the comments on here

Their teenage daughter follows parents around the house shouting at them and breaks a door and "this is a very minor issue"? We must have come from very different families, is all I can say.

OP's DD is bullying her & her DH and the advice she gets is "Allow her to bring random boyfriends you don't want to see in the house because otherwise she will just shag them in your bed when you are gone"? Please tell me that was a joke.

OP - You need to make her understand that this is your house and you get to decide who stays and who goes. She either treats you with respect acts like a member of your family or fucks off and sees how she likes living rough on the streets and turning tricks to feed herself.

How did you even get to this stage?

Thank you PhilPhilCollins for PDA link. I had wondered about that given ASD in sibling. Although she was not like this at all until well into secondary school. Used to be well behaved at home and school. Also this does seem to kick off around period time even though she is now in the pill.
Some posters here don't really understand the intensity of this. We do impose boundaries. When I say 9 out of ten times she gets to do what she wants, I don't mean we say no and back down. Most of the time, can I go out, yes that's fine would you like a lift?, can I have someone over, no problem would they like a meal with us etc. But if we ask her to be considerate to us for one night...

As for my DH he is miles away from being controlling and is getting help, for PTSD partly caused or certainly made worse by her behaviour in past. What happens last night is a trigger for him. We are adults, we are her parents but we are not indestructible and if behaviour gets extreme how can it not have an effect?

Some of us get very, very upset at something that might not upset others. We are all different and just because something that's upset the OP hasn't upset you, it doesn't mean she should be spoken to as though she's stupid.

I dont think people consider the OP stupid - but I do believe, like others on this thread, that the OP and her DH are in control of their emotions and reaction to them.

Parents should not be the victims of their emotions in response to their DC's behaviour.

If the OPs DD's behaviour has had such an impact on the the OP's DH's mental health, then it is his responsiblity to seek support for that - to develop coping strategies so that his mental health is protected. Parenting is a tough job - and parents need to equip themselves with the skills and resiliance to successfully navigate their DC's transition from teen to adult.

I haven't read all the responses, but OP you need to stop blaming your CHILD for all of this. Yes she is 17, yes she is almost a legal adult, but does that mean she is even nearly ready to be an adult? No it does not. We all mature at different rates.

Your DH's emotional problems, while not helped by the current situation, are NOT your DDs fault, and it is unacceptable for you to be putting that on her. Children should never be responsible for a parents emotions, whether good or bad. We as adults and as parents need to regulate our own emotions, and monitor our own mental health. Our reactions to our children's behaviour our our responsibility alone. Your thread title is all wrong. The main responsibility within a parent child relationship will always fall on the parent when they are still in a full time parent role. Your DD cannot and will not be destroying anything. Let that be clear.

Teenagers are often very selfish, they are one track minded and put themselves first. Please do not let these teenage years define how you see your DD as a person. There is a bigger picture here, although I realise it is hard to step back and see it when you are in the thick of it. You are heading down a road of writing off your DD at such a young age. That would be a shame for you all. And there is no guarantee that the damage done now could be reversed.

Like bodenbiscuit this situation reminds me of my own, and the blame for the family breakdown when I was 17 still rests on my shoulders now, over a decade later. Was I drinking/taking drugs/stealing/abusive? No, I was just trying to be a normal teenager. But my parents could not deal with the fact that their control over me and every aspect of my life was slipping away. We are now entirely NC because they still cannot accept that I am my own person with my own family and life.

Your DD might be going too far now, but it sounds to me like she feels she needs to in order for her to be heard.

for one night, so we can have a stress free night, not worrying about her or having our evening disrupted by visitors and giving lifts

If you were going to be away then you wouldn't have been disturbed by visitors or expected to give lifts. And your DD can't not have a life in case you worry.

I think you need a major rethink about how you see your DD, your role as parents, and how you approach her behaviour, both to her, and within yourselves.

ImperialBlether, nobody has kicked the OP or been rude to her. But a lot of people, myself included, do not think she and her husband are handling the situation as well as they could. We are explaining why, using our own experiences to illustrate why we think as we do and what we suggest instead. Nobody is suggesting it isn't very difficult for her, but it does sound as though she and her husband are escalating the situation and placing burdens on their daughter for which she is simply not responsible.

"Some of us are not as good at dealing with conflict as others" - well, yes, which is why we are offering OP alternative suggestions, since the approach she and her husband has clearly isn't working, as evidenced by the fact she started this thread. We do indeed have things that press our buttons, but when you're the parent and the grown up in the situation, you have to learn to rewire your circuitry, because that's your responsibility.

On another point about her breaking a door - again, I need to know the other side of this. I have a friend who is the gentlest man on earth, and he once broke a door as a teen. He kicked his shoes off in a strop and as he's very tall with large feet and they were steel capped boots, one went right through the glass pane. Complete accident, but you could say he was an angry teenager who smashed up the place. Or my own beloved father, who slapped me across the face repeatedly while screaming that I was destroying the place when I accidentally broke a chair. The chair, like the rest of the three piece suite, was 25 years old, worn through in parts and deeply dipped - you had your knees around your ears when you sat in it. I was having a strop, threw myself in it and it finally gave up the ghost. But Dad went on for months and months about how I was DESTROYING PROPERTY and that's how he always told the story.

We are hearing only one side of all this.