any other alternative mums out there?

[madamez]

Having lived a very non-mainstream life, I'm finding it hard to live in Straightworld. Anyone else out there feeling totally bemused once the playgroup chat moves away from weaning & nappies? Or is this just the general alienation everyone feels once DCs start forging their own way forward?

hmmm, maybe i should have explained the'buggies and husbands jobs' comment better. at the first meet up on of the moms asked 'didn't you all just find buying the buggy the hardest decision of your lives?' i made a joke about mine decision being based on which one was on special offer and she went all wide eyed and wierd and turned away. another woman almost dropped her coffee and also turned away when she asked me what dp did and i responded that he's was currently unemployed as he's been laid off the year before.

PT - i think you have been really unlucky. There are so many mums out there that are the same as you. Wanting to chat and make friends etc.

I suppose I can come across as stand-offish - simply because I am v shy, and DS is such a handful that quite often I have to dash off mid-conversation to retrieve him from what he is destroying . I also have the attention span of a gnat.

I have taken to assuming that most people are in fact like me and pay no heed to apparent snubs - because there could be a very 'innocent' reason behind it.

I have often wondered whether people make themselves so different/'alternative' to give themselves/others an 'excuse' as to why they have been snubbed/ignored, ie a superficial reason rather than a personality/character flaw. Genuine pondering.....not trying to offend. What do you think?

is that really true, pinktinsel? nearly dropped her coffee because your DH had been laid off and is unemployed? she seems highly sensitive to social difference... are you 100% super-dooper sure you're not being sensitive and over-reacting? plenty of people don't have jobs, it's hardly a reason not to talk to you. are you positive that you're not putting out some chippy vibes? (i mean, i'm inclined to believe you're not but really, the examples you've given sound ludicrous, facial piercings or no facial piercings... i'd have said the same as you about the buggy at any rate.)

So would i re buggy - because its true!

Ha this thing kicked off yet?

I knew it would at some point. So very disingenuous in its identifiying premise. Who really gives two hoots about facial piercings in 2006? The only thing most people ever raise an eyebrow over tattoos is how will they look when the wearer is 80?

Anyone who has ever read any literature will know that the greatest deviances and deepest elelments of human interest are all without fail on the inside. Get to know people first with out making judgements about why they are reacting to you.

Right I 'm off to give the fragrant boys full Yakuza suits and staple them together at the cheek.

at the first meet up on of the moms asked 'didn't you all just find buying the buggy the hardest decision of your lives?'

god what a sheltered life they lead. the hardest decision i had to make with dh was whether or not to go for his op.

sod the buggy/buggies, they can be sold lol.

LOL - "sod the buggies"?

Aren't you a buggy shopnsell-a-holic

Indeed suzy, indeed.

exactly

i nase it on my mood at the time. hmmm is pink in this year

no seriously, reallty the hardest decision of your life, nah no way.

now choosing a cot that took some decisions i can tell you

Hi there.Just wanted to say that just because someone appears "straight " doesn't mean that they don't like/respect people with tatoos/piercings/alternative philosophies/lifestyles.I look boringly straight but take people as I find them,and have to say the old adage "You should never judge a book by its cover" is very true.The other day I was waiting to get on a bus with two small kids in tow and a huge load of people walked past me and a very charming pierced,fully made up gothic guy very chivalrously asked if I neede a hand when everyone else walked past.In my student days I was pretty "alternative" and respect peoples right to be as individual as possible.You may find on further questionning that you discover some common ground beyond the nappies.My dp is a complete antithesis of me in looks,long hair etc etc.So go for it,you may find some reformed crusty/goth/rock chic in disguise!!

But the buggy comment could have been ironic, couldn't it?

Subtext: Isn't it ridiculous how motherhood can make you obsessed with stoopid details?

And when PT gave a literal answer, she thought, "oh, PT didn't get it" and didn't know how to continue.

I wouldn't know, I never bought a buggy, just carried mine around in slings..... and I'm boring as %&*£, not an alternative bone in my body.

but is it surprising that when you first meet someone they talk about small fry?

I would think I might scare someone to death a lot more if I asked them about the ways in which culture produces ideas of ?the real? that is when they are presented as objects of desire (the desire for foundation or completion, satisfaction or fulfilment)..with reference to Freud, Lacan and contemporary art and literature

'i have often wondered whether people make themselves so different/'alternative' to give themselves/others an 'excuse' as to why they have been snubbed/ignored, ie a superficial reason rather than a personality/character flaw. Genuine pondering.....not trying to offend. What do you think?'

I'll bite this one then

part of it with me was armour - to protect myself from men who only wanted to 'get to know me' because I conformed to a acceptable idea of beauty.

tattooed people tend to flock together, we do have similar interests because the extensively tattooed are passionate about body-modification - and it gives a signal to other tattooed folk that you're kind of like them. obviously there are differences between us, but we have common ground to start with.
I now see them as a way of filtering out potential friends and acquaintances who wouldn't want to know me because of my tattoos. there still can be a stigma attached to tattoos in general and on women in particular - criminal class/chavvy/'abnormal' sexuality etc, so it kind of gives a signal to people who think those things that it's not really worth investing time or energy in a friendship with me because we're not the same kind of people.

my best friend doesn't have a single tattoo. he's accepting of me despite my armour and took time to find out about the me inside the wrapping. most of my other friends do have tattoos - we don't just like each other because of the ink, but it is a common ground.

I've got a mum group type thing to tell. I'll pop it in a different post so this one isn't as unreadable as my last one.

persephone you say

"so it kind of gives a signal to people who think those things that it's not really worth investing time or energy in a friendship with me because we're not the same kind of people. "

maybe it gives a signal to lots of people that you don't want to try and relate to them

i think you make assumptions and come to this forum and your toddler group with that preconception

We can't see you here so everyone starts off "naked" not even any body armour so you can be true to yourself

but the tenor of this thread was golly I need my alternative armour on here i don't know if I'm socialising with people i would despise in rl because i can't see their credentials online I'll have to put out a call for them

I think "alternative mums" (those with visible piercings etc) are experiencing what all mums go through, which is that although being a mum opens all sorts of new opportunities for meeting people, it is very rare that you meet someone who is really on your wavelength. And it is really hard to brazen your way through the initial "getting to know you" conversations before you finally get to know the real person.

However, I do feel great empathy for you if you look different - part of the reason a lot of mums look boring is that blending into a crowd is an important part of getting people to look beyond the surface. So I suppose so many of us wouldn't look so boring if it didn't matter at all?

the buggy being the biggest decision of your life is obviously meant as a joke. mums at these groups just talk about things they have in common. everyone has had to buy a buggy. big deal.

good point cruella.

pinktinsel, I totally get what you're saying and know the type of mums you're talking about. I believe you when you say that you had a tumbleweed moment when you said your buggy choice was based on which one was on special offer.

this isn't made up chip on shoulder stuff, I'm amazed more people on this thread don't relate to that....maybe you are the tumbleweed mums!!!!

I can fully imagine that many of the mums that i've come across in M&T groups and in nursery playground would find tattoos and facial piercings threatening and intimidated and do what we all do when we feel like that which is to be intimidating themselves and group together excluding the mother that is overtly 'different'.

whensantawentquietlymad, what a great post.

Fascinating read. Im loving the point that was made about how strange it is to make a thread emphasizing appearance on Mumsnet of all places!! at first I thought this thread would be about something like extreme attachment parenting or something (like people whose kids dont wear nappies), or alternative lifestyles like living on a barge, gypsies...not sure really.
I was a little dissapointed to see its about how you look, and we are apparently supposed to group together in real life based on that.
I have tattoos, well hidden, but one quite big one on my back. Id like to believe Ive never judged a book by its cover. some very straight-looking, well spoken people are often a fantastic laugh to spend time with. Other wilder looking people can turn out to be quite dull (and are often from the same middle class backgrounds as the straighter looking people).
I understand what is being said that some women look down their noses at people with a lot of piercings, but others (as on this thread) look down their noses at the cleaner-looking women.
I start off by not really liking anybody until I find that certain people seem to lift my spirit and are funny or kind.

I think a lot of people on mn have interesting lives, opinions and talents..as do a lot of people despite the fact that they are parents..it just takes a little patience and perseverance to get them to talk about them

to what extent are tattooed mums to be found at private school gates might be an interesting pop poll too

'maybe it gives a signal to lots of people that you don't want to try and relate to them

yes, you're right i don't want to have to bother to relate to people who think that the way I choose to look is anything at all to do with them. bang on. i prefer people who aren't quite that shallow.

why would you mention private school and tattoos? do you assume that tattoos are a working class/chav thing that more priviledged people veer away from?