any other alternative mums out there?

[madamez]

Having lived a very non-mainstream life, I'm finding it hard to live in Straightworld. Anyone else out there feeling totally bemused once the playgroup chat moves away from weaning & nappies? Or is this just the general alienation everyone feels once DCs start forging their own way forward?

He heeeeee. o you don't want to borrow my copy then no?
Ok ay fine. Might watch it again tonihgt, with the hot chocolate!

daniel craig bleeeuch

i'm just a bit mystified by the 'us and them' chat. you don't have a clue what i look like... i'm typing on a screen. i couldn't give a stuff what you look like. but if from my writing style you've assumed that i can't give a good blow job then you'd be sadly mistaken.

as for the buggies and 'stealing of husbands', that is just cringeworthy... people (pierced or no) should be embarassed to peddle such pathetic stereotypes.

now, with regards to the crusty fashion statement... in (just) my experience i have found that people who have piercings and look, for want of a better word, 'alternative' are often especially shy therefore i'd be inclined to be particularly inclusive in an M&T group situation.

i'm interested in what puts people on a path to marking their bodies to make themselves look different? persephone, i feel, had some really interesting things to say about this, although she doesn't sound shy... quite the opposite. but i can relate to the idea that vulnerable people might wish for a suit of (ink) armour.

as it happens, i feel that i look very different to a lot of people i see on the street, but that's because i like having an unusual hairstyle, weirder glasses and wearing a lot of colour (oh god, sue pollard has come into your brains but i am considered by some in fact to be rather styleesh). so i'm not alternative, i'm not mainstream... what am i?

luckily i don't care to be anything other than me so i get to breeze into mother and toddler groups assuming that people will want to be friendly because i am a good person and if they aren't then i get to breeze out again assuming that they are not good people. i can't help but think that it's the 'not caring' that is the key thing when it comes down to it...

Good post Aitch, as usual. Gonna always picture you as Su Pollard now though LOL!

And I don't think I'm anything other than just me, I fit in with people who are decent, kind, caring, fun, happy people, whatever they look like on the outside. Friends range from fashion bunnies to dreadlocked cycle couriers, teachers, editors, city bods, SAHM, DJ's, models and so on. What they do or what they look like is an aside, I'm friends with who they are, not what they do or look like.

There's no such thing as an 'alternative mum', there are just people, all unique in their own way.

Totally agree Aitch

Havent posted on this thread yet but have been watching (openmouthed in disbelief at times)

Are we all 12 years old? who cares what people look like? But the funniest thing is how would you know if I am either
-A single mum with tattoos, piercings and who dresses 'differently' or
-A career mum who dresses from M+S with a husband, 2 cars and a mansion

And correct me if I am wrong, but is this not the whole point of MN?

evamum i think that was where we came in

Surely we should have some agreed definition about what is 'normal' before we can agree with what is 'alternative'.

IME a lot of people who define themselves as 'alternative' are just another flock of sheep following a different shepherd.

Surely you're only 'alternative' if you are truly individual - and who amongst us can say that?

I know, but I felt like joining in

I do actually pull a 'eugh' face whenever I see a belly button piercing, BUT ask me why (as some do) and you will find out that it was because it reminded me of the pain when mine had gotten ripped out

Does that make me not worth talking to because I have reacted 'unfavourably' to someone's appearance?

You're not called Wordsmith for nothing are you - love "people who define themselves as 'alternative' are just another flock of sheep following a different shepherd", I totally agree.

I think I'm individual

being decribed as "deep" is one euphemism for that I think

Baaaa! Lovely Wordsmith. I'm definitely a sheep or would be if I didn't keep losing my bloody shepherd!

I think one of the reasons some people are getting in such a tizzy is because we're all forgetting that mother-and-toddler groups vary a lot from place to place. Those of you assuring everyone that your M&T group would fall over themselves to welcome the facially-pierced/out&proud lesbian/parent of 6 adopted toddlers of different ethnic backgrounds may well be telling the truth about your M&T group, but you can't know what other ones in other places are like. A friend of mine, who is single, with a young baby and recieving state benefits, couldn't get on with her local group because every other mum there had a rich husband, a nanny and an important career to go back to and all of them treated her with contempt. Sadly she's too far away from me for us to hang out together regularly and, while I can get on tolerably well with some local mums, I find it depressing having to censor so much of my conversations, and was kind of looking out for other people (on here at least) to have the odd chatter with. Didn't quite intend it to turn into a war about looks, but it just goes to show: the one great truth about mohterhood is that we are all desperately tribal about it because every aspect of it comes under such feirce criticism from somone, somewhere.

but if i went to an M&T group and was treated with contempt, i would think that those women were wankers who were undeserving of my company and i would go and find another group. i wouldn't assume that their husbands were starving for a blowjob, however.

"people who define themselves as 'alternative' are just another flock of sheep following a different shepherd" LOL, that's brilliant

I understand what you are saying Madamaz. I never ever did the NCT hangiong out thing. I went to active birth classes and got on well with a couple of girls and we'd make each other laughb when we were supposed to be doing so mad yoga type pose but other than that I wasn't interested in making friends with soemone just becasue they were having a baby around the same time. When DD1 started at her preschool I felt very much on the outside. All the other mums seemed to know each other and 95% were Asian and also well off. However I broke through becasue I'm not one to lurk in the shadows and got on really well with themn all. I disn't let the fact that they were talking about the weather in India durign their last trip stop me from chatting to them and getting to know more about them. I was also the only mum whose child had special needs so felt like an outsider there as well, at first, but again I just put it to one side and made freinds.

What do you want to sy that you feel you have to censor? It's a shame that yu feel you have to =censor so much about your life. You';d never have to do that on here, you can say what you like on any thread you like.

Mother and toddler groups suck imo. People feeling they have to like some random stranger just cos they had a baby in the same year! Never been one for that. I have a few close friends, some of whom happen to have kids. I get on with a few of the mums I've met through DD1 starting school. For everything else there is Mumsnet!

so true, teecee. i've been to a few Mum things and enjoyed them well enough, but i met a few nice women at my ante-natal class and that's plenty new mums for me.
other than that i've got my real friends to talk to, some of whom have children adn some of whom don't.i suppose that's another reason why i couldn't give a stuff about these M&T-type classes, i don't need the friends. in fact, i'm such a curmudgeon i cull more than i keep these days...

my lo enjoys m and b groups and gets to play with new toys so i put up with it for him.some people do only do baby talk but maybe there shy?i live in small town so if you wear anything other than a fleece youre odd and so not hard to be considered alternitive.i think every one is different so they may only chat about babies at baby group but go home and be someone completly different.

glad to have struck a chord! I like people who know how to be themselves. I would hate to be pigeonholed as 'alternative' or anything else. Sure, other people will have expectations of you (often negative) but by deliberately labelling yourself alternative, aren't you rather prompting those expectations? [festive puzzled emoticon]

Oops I see there is already a festive puzzled emoticon.

OK thanks to those who've reassured me it gets better when kids are school age. One of the things I was wondering was whether my feelings of awkwardness and alienation are to do with missing my kid-free, non-mainstream friends of whom I am seeing less now. DS is 2 and when he was a baby I could just take him everywhere, now it's harder - partly compounded by the fact that we moved to a new area when he was 6months, though my friends have always been more about common interests than about proximity.

But I think (and no offence intended to anyone on MN) that I might do better finding local-ish mates if I post on sites dedicated to my interests, asking if there are any other parents of toddlers using the site :-) and stick to using MN for kid-related stuff.

madamez, do you mind if I ask which sites you mean (out of genuine interest)

Possibly yes. I still see my 2 best mtaes all the time and they are child-free. It's hard but with a supportie family I pick off the cream of the social things and go out when I can and they support me and come over and are v involved in my kids lives. Do you have someone to sit for you? What do you feel you are missing out on? I want to understand where you are coming from.

aitch, i did a great post at work and thought i'd posted it before i left - i didn't!

I am actually quite shy - if i were being overly self analytical i could probably put my armour down to my parents divorcing when i was four, my lack of a male role model, promiscuous teens and early twenties, settling down, being a 2.4 nuclear family and then getting royally shat upon - but that would be overly self absorbed of me i find it interesting why people modify themselves extensively and think in some instances there is a degree of self mutilation/aided self harm - (if you're interested do a google search on bmezine pass around girl' )thats not to say the extensively modified are all crack-pots - some of us do have issues (ahh, who doesn't!) and some of us are more normal than the 'normal' folk. I'm actually very moral/strict with my kids and like to think I'm bringing them up to the best of my ability - more common ground with the uninked mNers.

madamez (and obviously anyone else..) you may like to dip into

www.skindeep.co.uk/forums

& the parenting section of www.altnation.com - but don't abandon MN either

TeeCee - yes, I do get to go out sometimes (DS father very good at babysitting). Also do go to mum & toddler groups but just find I have v little in common with other people there in terms of interests and attitudes. The groups are good for DS as he gets to mix with other kids and run around lots, so I want to persevere with them but just find myself having to bite my lip and shut up a lot.