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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

I'm turning into one of THOSE posters...

868 replies

0verNow · 09/11/2015 06:26

...with multiple threads asking for advice about the same situation.

I'm trying to decide whether to end my marriage. I'm not looking for different advice from previous threads, but two of my other threads had to be deleted because DH found them, and the other is now quite long and things have moved on a bit - so I thought it might be better to start a new thread.

In summary, DH and I have been together for 10 years, married for 4 years and have 3 DCs.

There have been three issues in our marriage.

1. Right from the early days of our relationship, DH has been low-level EA. The kind of 'death by a thousand cuts' EA that sounds petty on paper but grinds your love to dust. This is the issue that brought us to counselling in the first place. DH is adamant that he wasn't deliberately abusive, just thoughtless and entitled and self-centred.

Since we started counselling, two more issues have emerged, each much more damaging (in my opinion) than the first.

2. Financial abuse. (I'm the poster whose DH spent £16k on counselling and lied to me about it.) I just didn't see it - in fact, DH had me convinced that I was crap with money. I'm still kicking myself that I was so blind.

3. DH's lies. He has lied about small things, and (at least) two enormous things (that I know of). I think lying is his default setting whenever it's more convenient than telling the truth.

Of these, 2 is largely resolved going forward. I have separated my finances from his, and although I still don't have access to our historic savings DH has offered to add me to all of his accounts.

1 is tricky. DH has been treating me well for 3 months now. I'd be interested to hear whether people think this is a new, improved DH - or just the old one on best behaviour, in which case he's likely to revert to type when he starts to relax.

But 3 is the big one for me. I don't know that I can get passed it.

There is one event which I'm particularly struggling with. It happened in 2007, and DH has lied and lied and lied to me about it. He was even still lying about it after counselling started. He has now given me 4 different versions of what happened, each one painting him in steadily worse light. The last version, which only came out last week because our counsellor forced the position, involved him covering up behaviour at work which was gross misconduct at best, and possibly criminal.

DH says that it all happened more than 8 years ago, and that living through the consequences of his 2007 behaviour has fundamentally changed him as a person.

But from my perspective, it's not 8 years old, it's all new to me. And it's not just the event from 8 years ago, it's the lies he's been telling me ever since. And I'm not at all convinced that he has changed as a person - given the ongoing lies, big and small.

I don't trust him. I still don't know if I've got to the truth about what happened in 2007. I don't know if there are other things still to discover.

If I'd known the truth 8 years ago, I would have left him. I'm very clear about that. But we didn't have DCs 8 years ago, and now we do (DC1 was conceived in the immediate aftermath).

I'm also very clear that I would not be with him now were it not for the DCs.

Am I being unreasonable to end my marriage over something that happened 8 years ago? Will my DCs hate me for splitting up their home?

I just want to do what's for the best, primarily for the DCs but also for myself.

OP posts:
springydaffs · 10/11/2015 19:14

No, he's a charlatan

pocketsaviour · 10/11/2015 19:17

Hasn't changed his toothbrush in 5 years? STRING HIM UP!!

OP I'm so sorry you had to go through such an abusive childhood and that your father was so incredibly angry and sought to punish both you and your mum in a very final, angry act. Flowers

Have you ever had individual counselling to talk through the effect this has had on your life? (sorry if you mentioned this before)

It becomes clear why you are so reluctant to do anything this man doesn't want. But he is responsible for his own choices, just as your dad was. Neither you nor your mum caused your dad to kill himself; he made that decision (in anger and selfishness) on his own. And however your H reacts (and you know he will deliberately play on your vulnerability by threatening to kill himself, perhaps veiled threats and hints rather than outright statements) that choice is his. You are not responsible for his happiness, only for your own, and that of your DC. He has well and truly forfeited any right to have you give a shiny shit about his welfare.

Can I make a suggestion that you bin off this ridiculous marriage coach, and take up the counselling through your employers that was offered? I can sense you don't feel ready yet to leave, and it's okay to need more support on your way. I can hear how reluctant you are to accept how abusive your marriage is, and I know it can be a total headfuck, especially when you've got your abuser sitting there and saying it's all your fault and why are you being so unreasonable...

springydaffs · 10/11/2015 19:20

Tablet gone barmy!

'Counsellor' = charlatan. Quack.

Who hasn't changed his toothbrush in 5 years??? Ewwwww

Girl, well done. Save your kids from the kind of shit your father put you all through. Bloody hell, that was the ultimate punishment wasnt it Angry Flowers

petalsandstars · 10/11/2015 19:24

I get the feeling that the charlatan will reply to your husband instead of you. Be prepared for whatever you told him in the email to come out of another mouthpiece.

Original poster
0verNow · 10/11/2015 19:35

Yes, it really was the ultimate punishment. It's the reason why I'm deeply uncomfortable with threads telling women who leave abusive men that they never go through with suicide threats.

OP posts:
springydaffs · 10/11/2015 19:52

The vast majority don't, they use it as a control device. Some do but it's rare.

What an absolutely vile thing to do to you all Angry Flowers

Btw i'm so uncomfortable that the weasel could be reading this I could cry. Might be a bit OTT but that's how I feel.

Original poster
0verNow · 10/11/2015 20:00

You know what, springydaffs?

So what if he is?

He's not going to scare me off from your support again.

I've made up my mind. I'm doing this.

Whether he finds out from Mumsnet, or our marriage coach (shall we call him MC for short?), or direct from me, or by solicitor's letter - it makes no odds.

Either he'll stay civilised for the sake of the DCs (Hmm) or he won't. This thread won't influence him.

OP posts:
pocketsaviour · 10/11/2015 20:02

I do think suicides tend to fall into two groups. People dealing with unbearable pain, who are just looking for a way out, and honestly feel their loved ones are better off without them. And then you get people for whom it's an expression of anger. I remember reading a line once, think it was in a Truman Capote story, that suicide is just something you do to yourself because you're too afraid (of the consequences) to murder the person you're angry with.

I had an abusive ex who took an overdose after I left. He very cleverly staged it so that I would be the one to find him. He was in hospital for 2 weeks, so he must have taken enough to do significant damage. Although I was the one who drove him to hospital (no mobiles in those days, no landline at his place and he lived way out in the country) I never believed for one second that it was my fault, I took it as further proof that he'd do anything to hurt me and control me. I went to visit him in hospital a couple of days afterwards, persuaded by a mutual friend. First thing he said was "So we're back together now, right?" He wasn't heartbroken, he didn't try to off himself because he couldn't deal with the pain. It was to get me back or possibly to pay me back. Preferably both, I guess.

pocketsaviour · 10/11/2015 20:03

X-post. Good update OP, you sound strong. KOKO!

Original poster
0verNow · 10/11/2015 20:05

My dad was a GP. He knew what he was doing. It definitely wasn't a cry for help or attention-seeking in his case. But I think you're right about the anger.

OP posts:
Original poster
0verNow · 10/11/2015 20:05

What does KOKO mean? I've meant to ask for ages. I thought I knew all the acronyms...

OP posts:
TendonQueen · 10/11/2015 20:09

Keep On Keeping On..

RandomMess · 10/11/2015 20:09

Keep On Keep On

I suffer from depression, have spent months of my life at a time suicidal. Do you know what if I ever went through with it it wouldn't be my DH fault, even the times when he was an arse to me in the past. It is my life and I am solely responsible for the decisions I make.

springydaffs · 10/11/2015 20:10

Keep On Keeping On Flowers

springydaffs · 10/11/2015 20:13

MC = charlatan.

I'm not going to be calling him a MC if that's alright.

Original poster
0verNow · 10/11/2015 20:13

Thank you. I like that.

OP posts:
Original poster
0verNow · 10/11/2015 20:13

You're all bloody lovely!

OP posts:
Original poster
0verNow · 10/11/2015 20:19

(Charlatan is fine too.)

OP posts:
AcrossthePond55 · 10/11/2015 21:44

No, you don't need a MC of any kind. The point of a (good) MC is to heal a marriage. And apparently (I'm not familiar with the MC backstory) this MC you've been seeing is a tad bit one-sided, no? Fuck him and the horse he rode in on! As of right this second, be determined that you will no longer interact with this person, nor give him any information.

You need to find your own counselor. One who will be in your corner and help you through this.

So what if he's reading this indeed! If he is then a huuuggge raspberry is being blown in his direction :P .

Original poster
0verNow · 11/11/2015 10:08

Not even an acknowledgement of my email from the counsellor. That's pretty poor, isn't it?

OP posts:
NettleTea · 11/11/2015 10:18

yes it is poor, and it shows exactly who's side he is on - he who pays the piper, etc etc.
I would stop waiting and instruct your solicitor, plus if you have been offered counselling, take up that offer. You will need a wise and fully clued up sounding board to be there for you 100% through the process, especially carrying so much painful, yet misplaced, baggage.

RandomMess · 11/11/2015 12:44

Yep piss poor. Still at least you don't have to waste your time going to anymore appointments Wink

DoreenLethal · 11/11/2015 13:03

Why would he - you are not his client!

shadowfax07 · 11/11/2015 13:14

I'm surprised he's not using it as an opportunity to push his Persona l Breakthrough program to you, tbh. Grin

AcrossthePond55 · 11/11/2015 20:10

It's just confirmation that this MC was never unbiased to start with. So, just put him out of your mind. You don't need to think about him or pay any attention to the dumb-ass things he may say to your DH from now on.

Get a solicitor, get your own counselor. Then get going!