I'm turning into one of THOSE posters...

[0verNow]

...with multiple threads asking for advice about the same situation.

I'm trying to decide whether to end my marriage. I'm not looking for different advice from previous threads, but two of my other threads had to be deleted because DH found them, and the other is now quite long and things have moved on a bit - so I thought it might be better to start a new thread.

In summary, DH and I have been together for 10 years, married for 4 years and have 3 DCs.

There have been three issues in our marriage.

1. Right from the early days of our relationship, DH has been low-level EA. The kind of 'death by a thousand cuts' EA that sounds petty on paper but grinds your love to dust. This is the issue that brought us to counselling in the first place. DH is adamant that he wasn't deliberately abusive, just thoughtless and entitled and self-centred.

Since we started counselling, two more issues have emerged, each much more damaging (in my opinion) than the first.

2. Financial abuse. (I'm the poster whose DH spent £16k on counselling and lied to me about it.) I just didn't see it - in fact, DH had me convinced that I was crap with money. I'm still kicking myself that I was so blind.

3. DH's lies. He has lied about small things, and (at least) two enormous things (that I know of). I think lying is his default setting whenever it's more convenient than telling the truth.

Of these, 2 is largely resolved going forward. I have separated my finances from his, and although I still don't have access to our historic savings DH has offered to add me to all of his accounts.

1 is tricky. DH has been treating me well for 3 months now. I'd be interested to hear whether people think this is a new, improved DH - or just the old one on best behaviour, in which case he's likely to revert to type when he starts to relax.

But 3 is the big one for me. I don't know that I can get passed it.

There is one event which I'm particularly struggling with. It happened in 2007, and DH has lied and lied and lied to me about it. He was even still lying about it after counselling started. He has now given me 4 different versions of what happened, each one painting him in steadily worse light. The last version, which only came out last week because our counsellor forced the position, involved him covering up behaviour at work which was gross misconduct at best, and possibly criminal.

DH says that it all happened more than 8 years ago, and that living through the consequences of his 2007 behaviour has fundamentally changed him as a person.

But from my perspective, it's not 8 years old, it's all new to me. And it's not just the event from 8 years ago, it's the lies he's been telling me ever since. And I'm not at all convinced that he has changed as a person - given the ongoing lies, big and small.

I don't trust him. I still don't know if I've got to the truth about what happened in 2007. I don't know if there are other things still to discover.

If I'd known the truth 8 years ago, I would have left him. I'm very clear about that. But we didn't have DCs 8 years ago, and now we do (DC1 was conceived in the immediate aftermath).

I'm also very clear that I would not be with him now were it not for the DCs.

Am I being unreasonable to end my marriage over something that happened 8 years ago? Will my DCs hate me for splitting up their home?

I just want to do what's for the best, primarily for the DCs but also for myself.

Agree with everything AcrossthePond says. Bullies can be scary, that's the whole point, but they are weak cowards at heart. You can do this, you can.
sending you strength. xxx

How are you doing over?

Not very good.

They come home from their holiday today, and I'm dreading seeing STBXH again.

And I'm not looking forward to telling the DCs, even though I know we must.

Would it be unreasonable of me to stop washing STBXH's clothes now? I really want to stop.

Yes, of course it would be fine to stop washing his clothes. You're not his skivvy and never were. You can stop doing anything for him, if that's what you want to do, cooking, cleaning, sex (especially!). Look after yourself and the children. He is not relevant.

Is he likely to get physical? If I remember rightly from the start of your thread, he's kore likely to threatenmto do violence to himself. Tell him you'll call an ambulance for him. Take deep breaths and keep calm.

When we divided out the household chores, he got doing the bins and the weekly supermarket shop.

I got everything else.

I stopped changing his duvet when I moved out of our bedroom (which he was gobsmacked about). I stopped cooking when I told him our marriage was over in November.

I'm going to say that I'm not willing to do his laundry anymore because it's too personal, but will keep doing all the DCs' washing. In return, I expect him to keep doing the weekly shop for anything the DCs need and for himself but I will make separate arrangements for myself (I already do, TBH). I think that's fair.

No, he's not likely to do any harm to himself. Up until a couple of weeks ago I wouldn't have said he could be violent, but he scared me and was physically intimidating when he found out that I'd told DC1 about our split.

When we divided out the household chores, he got doing the bins and the weekly supermarket shop. I got everything else.

He got the sweet end of that deal, didn't he? (Unless you just can't abide either of those). You got the day to day slog and he got two chores you do once/twice a week! Absolutely STOP any more 'domestic services' for him. I'd probably go so far as sorting out the correct number of dishes/silverware for myself and the children and wash only those.

Try to remember how nice it's been with him gone. That's what your life will be once you are able to break free.

I know your solicitor has told you not not leave. I'm assuming it's to claim your rights to the house. But are you really all that attached to where you live? You've said you're out in the country, I am, too, and I know that if my DH and I had split when our sons were little I would NOT have wanted to stay here. I would have moved into town, closer to my family. I would have still been entitled to 50% of the property value, marital law would have protected my interest. Wouldn't it be the same in the UK?

I love my house but I'm resigned to the fact that it's going to have to be sold. I know I won't be living there at some point - hopefully within months.

But I can't move out now because I can't afford to rent somewhere that's big enough to house me and three DCs and still meet my share of the household costs for our current property. (And as I understand it I do need to keep meeting my share of the household costs to preserve my claim over the property - but I'm happy to be corrected if my understanding is wrong).

And I won't leave the DCs behind. Quite aside from the damage he might do to their emotional well-being (I also don't trust him to do things like remember to brush their teeth or give DC1 his medication either, frankly) STBXH would have a valid claim to say he's the resident parent. I could lose them.

And it goes without saying that STBXH won't move out.

I see. I don't know about UK law, but US law would protect your share, even if you weren't living there. At the most, they would grant a larger share of the profit for the months you didn't pay your share. But that is only for the amount of the loan principal reduction, not the complete mortgage payment amount. This agrees with what my BFF was told when she moved out of their marital home. Unfortunately, her prick of an ex stopped paying the mortgage altogether (but stayed in the house) and the house was foreclosed on. She was renting and couldn't afford to keep up the payments.

EXAMPLE from a US law website. Perhaps it could be applicable, perhaps not for UK law. I'd certainly ask your solicitor:

"Imagine that a year passes between your date of separation and the date your house is sold (not an unusual scenario). During that time, your spouse has made all the mortgage payments, in addition to paying child and spousal support. Each month, $1,700 of the $2,200 payment goes to interest, and $500 goes to principal. That means that over the course of the year, your spouse has reduced the principal on your loan, and thus increased your joint equity in the house, by $6,000—using separate property. Your spouse would be justified in arguing that when the profit from the sale of the house is divided, the division shouldn’t be equal. Instead, your spouse should get back the $6,000 in equity that was earned as the result of the payments during the separation".

Obviously, you can't leave your children behind, no way! But speak to your solicitor. It seems to me that there are many men who leave the marital home and still manage to retain their financial rights upon sale (or buyout). At least it seems that way from threads I've seen here on MN started by their ex-wives. I can't believe that these men are paying the mortgage and renting a separate property in all cases. Cite the example I've given to your solicitor, it can't hurt. All he can do is say it's not applicable in the UK.

A quick update.

We told DC2&3 together last weekend. They both cried, and have both shed tears subsequently, but on the whole seem OK (both school and our nanny, as objective observers, have been keeping a very close eye and agree that they're coping so far). DC2 keeps asking me to get back together with Daddy, and cries when I say that won't happen. But DC1 seems happier now that he doesn't have a secret.

It was my birthday last week. In our family, it's traditional that the DCs get a small 'unbirthday' present each to open. I got them a book each, and arranged to take them out for dinner. To my shock, in addition to helping the DCs chose presents for me, STBXH bought and wrapped presents for me to give to them, and then refused to tell me what they were. I said that as I had neither chosen nor paid for them, I would not be giving them to the DCs. Cue lots of passive aggressive texts from STBXH about how pleased he was that I was feeling so happy on my birthday. I left the presents on his bed (along with several presents to me from him). He gave them to the DCs the next morning, telling them they were from him on my birthday because he loves them so much.

STBXH is still being an arse about time with the DCs. The latest is he won't commit to having them home at a set time on Sunday so I can take them on a playdate.

I've completed my financial forms, which are with my solicitor. I have my first call with the mediator next week. So at least that side of things is moving forward.

Finally, I've booked a holiday with the DCs for the Easter holidays - to the Canary Isles. I'm equal parts terrified and excited. I can't really afford it, but it will be the only holiday I have this year and I wanted to make it one that the DCs really enjoy. No doubt STBXH will try to undermine it somehow...

I've also just read a thread about how devastating DCs find their parents separating, which has made me feel incredibly sad and guilty.

Don't feel that way! Well, it's OK to feel sad, but don't feel guilty. Even if there is sadness at separation in the long run the children are happier, because their lives are much more settled and they're living in happier homes. So yes, in the 'short run' the children will be upset, but in the 'long run' you'll have happy, well adjusted children who understand boundaries, respect, and what constitutes a good marriage. Their time with a manipulating father will be less than if you'd stayed together. You won't have to completely bridle your tongue about his 'ways' as you do when you're living in the same house trying to hold together a bad marriage.

I'm glad it's all out in the open now, hopefully that'll chivvy him along. And you handled the present thing perfectly.

Well done on how you have handled everything, you dc will be much happier in the long run however upset they are at the moment.

He's the one who should be feeling guilty as he broke up the marriage. He is not even bothering to make the spilt amicable - look at how he's behaving with the DC.

So... Guess who isn't home at the time he agreed to be, so I could go out with my friends?

You aren't actually surprised are you?

There is nothing reasonable or pleasant or honourable about your STBXH.

Hide yours and the kids passports away right now.

It's just another reason why the legal formalities need to be dealt with forthwith. It's pretty obvious you aren't going to be able to go on the 'honour system' as far as child access goes, you're going to need it spelt out; dates, pick up/drop off times, holidays, etc. Otherwise he's going to be jerking you around for the next how-many-ever years.

My BFF had to have it court ordered to a gnat's ass or her ex would do his utmost to upset her life or make it impossible for her to plan anything. Wouldn't show for pickups at all or she'd end up having to cancel plans to wait for him. Would drop off their DS at all hours of the night on a school night with no phone calls. Her order was along the lines of 'pick up no later than 11am or access period is forfeit, drop off no later than 6pm or next access decreased by the double amount of time late. It was a nightmare but better than what she had been dealing with.

A quick update:

• he has filed for divorce and I have acknowledged service, so at least that's moving forward.

• we were supposed to start mediation today but he cancelled because he's too busy. I'm waiting to hear whether we can find another date this month. I've told the mediator that if we can't then I'm going to ask to be signed off (which is a necessity before I can go to court - I don't want to go to court but I fear it's going to come to that).

• Several items of post have gone missing, even when the senders swear they sent them. I suspect, but can't prove, that he's taking post now he can't get into my room any more.

• He's refusing to give me the DCs' passports (he sent me a scan of each passport instead . My SHL is on the case.

So, in short, I'm utterly miserable and stressed. I'm still spending every evening in my room to avoid him. But I will not let him break me.

Huge, huge hugs.

Is it worth setting up a PO box thing - where you have to collect your mail from the post office?

He's an utter bastard but then we all knew that

How are the DC?

Can you change your postal address to a trusted friend or family member or even work as a "care of" address to prevent his stealing?

KOKO

The younger two are basically fine. He sometimes deliberately upsets them, which I think is utterly cruel - he'll say things like "Daddy isn't going to see you tonight but don't be sad, he'll be back tomorrow and Daddy loves you very much"; they aren't upset until he says that and it's usually his choice to go for a client dinner rather than anything I've done or requested.

The oldest seems to be struggling a bit. But I'm pretty certain, and so are others, that STBXH is coaching him. DC1 is a complete drama llama at the best of times, and STBXH is whipping him up. He'll do things like carry DC1 through to his bed in the middle of the night "because you had a nightmare about Mummy leaving Daddy" when DC1 has no recollection about the nightmare the next morning...

Please tell me you have reported your dh emotional abuse of his children to your solicitor

He is just a complete cunt. Remember that one day you will be free from this fuckwittery.

I have. She says it's not close to the threshold where we could stop it legally. His word against mine. But we're keeping a diary. It's all we can do.