I'm turning into one of THOSE posters...

[0verNow]

...with multiple threads asking for advice about the same situation.

I'm trying to decide whether to end my marriage. I'm not looking for different advice from previous threads, but two of my other threads had to be deleted because DH found them, and the other is now quite long and things have moved on a bit - so I thought it might be better to start a new thread.

In summary, DH and I have been together for 10 years, married for 4 years and have 3 DCs.

There have been three issues in our marriage.

1. Right from the early days of our relationship, DH has been low-level EA. The kind of 'death by a thousand cuts' EA that sounds petty on paper but grinds your love to dust. This is the issue that brought us to counselling in the first place. DH is adamant that he wasn't deliberately abusive, just thoughtless and entitled and self-centred.

Since we started counselling, two more issues have emerged, each much more damaging (in my opinion) than the first.

2. Financial abuse. (I'm the poster whose DH spent £16k on counselling and lied to me about it.) I just didn't see it - in fact, DH had me convinced that I was crap with money. I'm still kicking myself that I was so blind.

3. DH's lies. He has lied about small things, and (at least) two enormous things (that I know of). I think lying is his default setting whenever it's more convenient than telling the truth.

Of these, 2 is largely resolved going forward. I have separated my finances from his, and although I still don't have access to our historic savings DH has offered to add me to all of his accounts.

1 is tricky. DH has been treating me well for 3 months now. I'd be interested to hear whether people think this is a new, improved DH - or just the old one on best behaviour, in which case he's likely to revert to type when he starts to relax.

But 3 is the big one for me. I don't know that I can get passed it.

There is one event which I'm particularly struggling with. It happened in 2007, and DH has lied and lied and lied to me about it. He was even still lying about it after counselling started. He has now given me 4 different versions of what happened, each one painting him in steadily worse light. The last version, which only came out last week because our counsellor forced the position, involved him covering up behaviour at work which was gross misconduct at best, and possibly criminal.

DH says that it all happened more than 8 years ago, and that living through the consequences of his 2007 behaviour has fundamentally changed him as a person.

But from my perspective, it's not 8 years old, it's all new to me. And it's not just the event from 8 years ago, it's the lies he's been telling me ever since. And I'm not at all convinced that he has changed as a person - given the ongoing lies, big and small.

I don't trust him. I still don't know if I've got to the truth about what happened in 2007. I don't know if there are other things still to discover.

If I'd known the truth 8 years ago, I would have left him. I'm very clear about that. But we didn't have DCs 8 years ago, and now we do (DC1 was conceived in the immediate aftermath).

I'm also very clear that I would not be with him now were it not for the DCs.

Am I being unreasonable to end my marriage over something that happened 8 years ago? Will my DCs hate me for splitting up their home?

I just want to do what's for the best, primarily for the DCs but also for myself.

Over why are you defending this man? It doesn't matter what he lied about. It doesn't matter if he is 60% arsehole for his lies and 'cancer man' is 80% arsehole. By springing to his defense, you are allowing yourself to still be enmeshed with him when you should be detaching yourself. You are allowing yourself to be sidetracked.

I know. You're right.

Then let this be your first step. Stop defending him either here or in your RL. No more 'but….' or 'if…..'. Let it go. Start right now by 'divorcing' yourself from his actions, from what others say about him, from considering what he may think or feel about what you do.

I know it's really hard. But you have to start with that one small step.

I think quite often, people stay because of a fear of the unknown future. That's why I'd advise you to plan your exit. Get all the facts re facts and finance if it's fear of the future that's keeping you in such a diabolical present.

OP, you have been groomed to think your opinion doesn't matter, you have been groomed to think that what you find objectionable is not really objectionable. It's as if anything you feel is not allowed to be valid. If that is not proof that he is an abusive man, then I don't know what is. Just from the way you write your first post, I can feel the confusion.

You do not need a cast-iron, bullet proof reason to ditch this man. All your instincts are telling you not to trust him, not to touch him, not to believe him. Whatever instincts are left, they are telling you something about your own survival. Trust them.

And if you really are on the horns of a dilemma, what pray, are the reasons you should carry on with the marriage? There is nothing good about him in your post. He sounds like a lying scumbag. Oh I forgot, he's been 'good'for 3 months...blimey, time for a second honeymoon!

Sorry OP for being sarcastic but you deserve a hell of a lot more than this. You really really do. It is not your fault he is like this, no-one will blame you - I expect everyone who cares about you will breathe a sigh of relief. You won't miss him for a single second. Believe in yourself.

I truly think he loves me, and is hurting terribly right now. I find it hard to detach from his pain, knowing I caused it.

I truly think he loves me, and is hurting terribly right now. I find it hard to detach from his pain, knowing I caused it

I hope someone here can come up with an answer to this.

Bangs head against door!

Lovely, you didn't cause his 'pain' (if you want to call it that), he brought it on himself by the things he did to you. He has had the consequences of his own actions. Any pain he has is selfish pain. The pain a child may have if he has a toy taken away after he's hit another child with it. Yes, that child may be upset and feel 'hurt' because he lost his toy, but it is the child who was hit that is truly hurting and has the real pain.

As far as him loving you, well, if he truly loved you (unselfish love) he would never have lied to you, never have stolen (yes, stolen) money from you, never would have emotionally abused you, never would have allowed you to lay your credibility on the line when he knew he was guilty. And he certainly would never have made excuses for his terrible behaviour or blamed you for it. Any 'love' he has for you is selfish love. He loves you for what you do for him, for what you sacrifice for him, for how you make his life easier, for how you enable him to do what he wants, how you never ask anything back from him. That's not really love, at least to me it isn't.

0ver, he has you so beaten down you can't see where 'up' is anymore. You are so unhappy you can't envision happiness anymore. And that is his fault. He has lied and manipulated you until you don't know the truth anymore. But here is the truth; You are a worthwhile person, you are a good mother, you are a good wife. You deserve happiness, you deserve peace, you deserve security. And you aren't going to get them with him. You'll only get them when he is gone from your life.

My DM put my father's wishes before her own throughout my childhood; on the few occasions when she pushed back, he made our lives deeply uncomfortable with sulking and other EA (he was also very FA). I learned to appease men.

When he pushed her too far (he had an affair) and she finally took her stand, he killed himself. I learned that really, really bad things happen if you're not a good girl.

I was 16 at the time, and I had to hold it together to stop our family falling apart. I learned to sacrifice my own needs for the greater good of the family.

It's very, very hard to overcome that kind of conditioning - and that's before you overlay H's behaviour which reinforced all my childhood lessons.

Your comments that I can't let the same happen to my DCs have struck home.

This morning I emailed our counsellor and told him that I want a divorce; from now on I will only engage in counselling sessions designed to mediate our separation. I'm terrified of confronting H, so the counsellor can earn his fucking money helping me do it.

I already have a solicitor, and my divorce petition is drawn up and ready to send to H. I will instruct her to send it once I have heard back from my counsellor.

I can't rent anywhere in my own name because I don't have 6 months of bank statements (I only separated my finances from H's in September). I'm also not sure that me moving out would be the best answer for me or for the DCs. I will be asking my solicitor for advice on this shortly.

I feel very small, and very sad, and very scared. I know I'm frustrating you, but please stay with me a little longer.

Yesssss
Your latest post sounds so strong. Stick with it. It will get worse before it gets better but boy will it get better!

I truly think he loves me, and is hurting terribly right now. I find it hard to detach from his pain, knowing I caused it.

And yet he doesn't give a shit about your pain. Think about all the hurt he has caused you and how his actions aren't those of someone who cares about you.

0verNow, the counsellor, the £16k a session one, is not going to be any use. Please don't rely on anything he has to say. Get the divorce started, and then go to mediation and/or a BACP approved counsellor.

And what accrossthepond said.

Sending you strength

... Your husband knows about your dad right?

Whether it's intentional or not, that pain and terror is what he's used to control you. Think about how horrid that is.

Well done on getting your kids away from this X

Yes, he knows about my dad.

I learned that really, really bad things happen if you're not a good girl

I'm really sorry to hear it, but your interpretation of events is skewed. The real lesson is that bad things happen if you cheat on your wife and are too spineless to stomach the inevitable consequences. That's the sad truth.

Nothing to do with being a 'good girl'. And anyway you don't mean 'good' you mean 'accepts mistreatment without a whimper', not the same thing.

Your father chose to end his life over a mistake he made. Nothing to do with you or your mother.

0verNow, the counsellor, the £16k a session one, is not going to be any use.

Agreed. Your husband is the client and his aims are the only ones that the counsellor will be taking into consideration. He is your husband's mouthpiece. You need personal, separate assistance, not someone who works for your husband.

Sending you {{{{{hugs}}}}} or a gentle hand in your shoulder, whichever works best for you.

I'm so glad you are finding the strength to protect your DC from this 'orrile influence in their lives and showing them by example, as no one had the strength to do for you. Be kind and gentle to yourself, this is an amazing thing you are doing and the consequences will be good for you all.

The rental market currently is a flea infested shark pit. But keep casting out a line. Honestly bank statements are really the least of it, so you're better off looking even before you have them. Otherwise once you do, there will be something else you need to "wait for".

Seeking your own counsellor sounds like a good move.

I agree with a counselor, but with an unbiased one, one that will work from a position of neutrality in separate sessions, no more joint counseling. And one that will help you work through your childhood on your own.

Be strong. You are, you know. Strong.

Bangs head against door!

My apologies. That was harsh and it shouldn't have been.

My DM put my father's wishes before her own throughout my childhood; on the few occasions when she pushed back, he made our lives deeply uncomfortable with sulking and other EA (he was also very FA). I learned to appease men.

Sorry, just found this thread, today (I posted in your last one)

I picked up immediately on your thoughts yesterday about the idea of staying together for the benefit of the children. Now, today, you've posted the above (plus what followed). I would say that is enough to disabuse you of any idea of staying with a man you feel nothing for and do not trust because it might harm the kids if you leave him.

Yet it's so common and is borne out by your own experience, that parents staying together in a dysfunctional relationship can be anything but good for the kids. It's stressful for them and doesn't model good relationships to them.

That fact is, you do not need to build up a convincing portfolio of reasons to leave him. Even with kids involved, even though the idea might make some people gasp with horror, simply falling out of love is enough. The fact that he has overwhelmingly proved over and over again that he can't be trusted is more than enough reason.

No worries, Sansoora.

Not heard a word from the counsellor...

0verNow I felt guilty that I was the cause of my stbxh pain until I remembered what he had done and why I wanted to leave, and it also helps that he gets nastier and nastier every time I see him. Trust me you will be better without him, and if he is reading this good because you will be and so will the children.

Why do you feel so guilty about causing him pain when he chosen to ignore the pain he has been causing you for years?

You are not causing his pain, he has through his behaviour because it's finally come back to bite him on the bum. He avoided this pain 8 years ago by lying through his back teeth but all he's done is delay it.

Stop calling the Marriage Coach a counsellor, he isn't, he's a coach to help people improve their marriage if they both want to be in it.

(And he picks his nose, fails to change his duvet and hasn't replaced his toothbrush in about 5 years.)