I'm turning into one of THOSE posters...

[0verNow]

...with multiple threads asking for advice about the same situation.

I'm trying to decide whether to end my marriage. I'm not looking for different advice from previous threads, but two of my other threads had to be deleted because DH found them, and the other is now quite long and things have moved on a bit - so I thought it might be better to start a new thread.

In summary, DH and I have been together for 10 years, married for 4 years and have 3 DCs.

There have been three issues in our marriage.

1. Right from the early days of our relationship, DH has been low-level EA. The kind of 'death by a thousand cuts' EA that sounds petty on paper but grinds your love to dust. This is the issue that brought us to counselling in the first place. DH is adamant that he wasn't deliberately abusive, just thoughtless and entitled and self-centred.

Since we started counselling, two more issues have emerged, each much more damaging (in my opinion) than the first.

2. Financial abuse. (I'm the poster whose DH spent £16k on counselling and lied to me about it.) I just didn't see it - in fact, DH had me convinced that I was crap with money. I'm still kicking myself that I was so blind.

3. DH's lies. He has lied about small things, and (at least) two enormous things (that I know of). I think lying is his default setting whenever it's more convenient than telling the truth.

Of these, 2 is largely resolved going forward. I have separated my finances from his, and although I still don't have access to our historic savings DH has offered to add me to all of his accounts.

1 is tricky. DH has been treating me well for 3 months now. I'd be interested to hear whether people think this is a new, improved DH - or just the old one on best behaviour, in which case he's likely to revert to type when he starts to relax.

But 3 is the big one for me. I don't know that I can get passed it.

There is one event which I'm particularly struggling with. It happened in 2007, and DH has lied and lied and lied to me about it. He was even still lying about it after counselling started. He has now given me 4 different versions of what happened, each one painting him in steadily worse light. The last version, which only came out last week because our counsellor forced the position, involved him covering up behaviour at work which was gross misconduct at best, and possibly criminal.

DH says that it all happened more than 8 years ago, and that living through the consequences of his 2007 behaviour has fundamentally changed him as a person.

But from my perspective, it's not 8 years old, it's all new to me. And it's not just the event from 8 years ago, it's the lies he's been telling me ever since. And I'm not at all convinced that he has changed as a person - given the ongoing lies, big and small.

I don't trust him. I still don't know if I've got to the truth about what happened in 2007. I don't know if there are other things still to discover.

If I'd known the truth 8 years ago, I would have left him. I'm very clear about that. But we didn't have DCs 8 years ago, and now we do (DC1 was conceived in the immediate aftermath).

I'm also very clear that I would not be with him now were it not for the DCs.

Am I being unreasonable to end my marriage over something that happened 8 years ago? Will my DCs hate me for splitting up their home?

I just want to do what's for the best, primarily for the DCs but also for myself.

I think much of the time you get out what you put in. Some of the online reviews for the Freedom Programme may have been from people who were either expecting miracles or who weren't really interested in doing the work involved in breaking free. I'd say it's worth a go. You also may want to think about whether or not there might be a bit of 'fear' for you that's putting up roadblocks to doing the online programme. Fear that if you 'learn too much' you fear you may be put in a mental place of knowing that you need to leave rather than wait him out. A bit of 'ignorance is bliss' as it were.

As far as living in the country, is where you are now where you want to stay? The reason I ask is because I, too, live in the country. And I know it can be a lot of work if you have any acreage at all. Frankly, I wouldn't stay here if I were to be on my own. I just don't have the ability or knowledge to take care of our property and honestly wouldn't want to put in the effort even if I did. Also, convenient childcare may be difficult to find, especially as IIRC you work a distance away from home and have to travel for your job. In case you haven't thought about it, I don't think you'll be able to count on much if any help from your stbx as far as childcare goes. So you need to be in a place where you'll have options.

0ver I know this is all frightening for you. But knowledge is power. We fear the unknown. The 'known' can be conquered.

So something really odd happened this morning.

STBXH came home as usual last night. Said good night to the DCs, cooked himself dinner. I went to my bedroom at around 8pm, I could hear him pottering around downstairs. All as expected.

Fast forward to this morning. I was awake from around 4:30am. The first DC was awake from 5:45am. I got up with them, did breakfast as per usual.

At 8:15, DC1 wandered upstairs to see Daddy. But he wasn't there. And when DC1 came downstairs, a bit freaked out and worried, I realised STBXH's car wasn't here either. He must have crept out in the night .

He came home at about 8:45, said hello to the DCs and then went straight into his bedroom (I think for a shower). Emerged at 9:30, with no word of explanation.

Not that it's any of my business, but how weird is that?

Especially given that one of his grounds for divorcing me for unreasonable behaviour is that I "remove myself from the family unnecessarily"!

(Fore completeness, the others are: that I get unnecessarily angry with him; that I get stressed before family holidays; that I don't appreciate everything he does for me or for childcare; and that I don't love him anymore .)

And he's been tired and short tempered today too. I took the boys out for lunch and he looked like he'd been asleep when we got back.

Do you think he's got a girlfriend? It would be good if he has. Might make him less fixated on me.

So he was gone overnight? Hmmm. I guess a girlfriend would be a logical assumption, but I'd wait and see if it's a one off or if he starts absenting himself for hours at a time or overnight. It could be as simple as him trying to 'freak you out' to get some sort of rise out of you. Does he do any type of work that could either take him away for work or possibly a night shift to cover for someone? A sports event with an overnight at a hotel or a mate's?

I'd also check around the house to see if anything is missing, papers or valuable items.

If it continues and you're really curious, you could start checking the mileage on his odometer. Of course, that would only tell you the distance he's traveled, but might give you a hint.

I don't care where he was, or with whom. He's welcome to go away overnight as often as he likes.

But I do care that the DCs were upset (if I'd known he was out I would have managed them differently) and I have a tiny glimmer of hope that if he's found someone else then he might care marginally less about making my life difficult.

I see what you mean. I thought maybe you wanted to catch him in adultery for divorce purposes. As far as the children you could always say "I don't care where you're going or what you're doing, but if you're not going to be here when the children wake up, please leave me a note or tell them you'll be gone for awhile when they get up as they were upset". He probably won't, though. I'm sure he likes you to have upset children on your hands. In actuality, he probably did it to get a rise out of you, so probably best to say nothing.

Totally OT, I live in a 'no fault' state in the US for divorce purposes. It's just 'irreconcilable differences' and neither side has to offer proof. It was one simply question from the judge "Do you feel in your mind that your marriage is so irretrievably broken down that counseling would not save it?" to which I replied "Yes, Your Honour". And that's it as far as 'grounds'. It's not even contestable by the other party. They can contest the money/child contact part of it and that drags things out, but not the divorce itself. I think it's a shame that you have to go through a bunch of rigmarole in the UK to free yourself from a marriage you don't want. But that's by the by.

Yes, so do I. I've never understood why we have to have fault-divorces, or wait 2 years. Especially in cases like ours where we tried counselling already. Fault-divorces just add rancour to an already-torturous situation

Absolutely. I think even in the case of one party not wanting the divorce it would be much easier for both parties in the long run to just be able to get it over with.

If we ran the world, eh?

I think that if he turns this into a habit to rattle you/upset the children, then you need to completely gloss over it, act as if it is terribly ordinary, really play it down. "Oh, is dad not in again? Oh well, never mind. Would you like jam or marmite on your toast....".

I realise that could have implications further down the line, but for now, while you're still all living together, it may simply help you and the children get past his unreasonable behaviours. Keep taking notes, dates, times etc, though.

I agree with Jux. Everything he does is to get a rise out of you or to leave you with upset DC. Best to ignore or blow it off as no big deal. Best way to not have upset DC is to act like nothing he does is a big deal.

Did you get the access back to the WiFi router OP? You can usually reset them back to the factory settings. Or totally remove it and tell him "It was broken and wouldnt let me connect at all, I'll have to buy a new one when I get around to it".

I'm ignoring all his bad behaviour for now, but making notes of it all as Jux recommends, and being breezy with the DCs.

I'm also ignoring the WiFi router.

Pick your battles.

I have, however, told the DCs' school about our separation. DC1 was so clearly struggling, and I wanted him to have a safe place to talk. Thankfully his teacher has been amazing and although DC1 is still sad he seems more level too. STBXH is going to be furious when he finds out. Hey ho.

STBXH also managed to forget to give DC1 his anti-epilepsy medicine on Saturday, for the 2nd weekend in a row. He really is a twat.

And, as predicted, STBXH is furious with me again.

This time over DC1.

DC1 and I had a chat last night. He asked why we're splitting up. I said that sometimes grown-ups stop remembering to be kind to each other, and then when that happens their feelings sometimes change, but that the details are private to Mummy and Daddy. DC1 asked what I had done to Daddy to stop being kind; I said that I don't appreciate all the things that Daddy does for the family (which is, after all, what he put in his divorce petition FFS). I thought that was a decent job of not blaming STBXH for being a shit.

DC1 has relayed this back to STBXH, and asked Daddy why he can't forgive me for not being kind to him. STBXH has interpreted this as me telling DC1 that STBXH is selfish.

(Actually, STBXH is selfish, but I didn't tell DC1 that.)

So now I'm getting stroppy emails about how we agreed to manage the children together.

How I'm supposed to do that when he won't talk to them or me is a mystery.

Fucker.

And now I'm in tears at work and scared to go home.

STBXH hasn't thought through all the consequences of insisting that he divorce me, rather than letting me divorce him, has he?

I don't think I'd have taken on quite so much any blame, but that's water under the bridge. You don't need to appease this man OR accept blame to your children. What's on the divorce papers is one thing. They aren't going to call your children to testify so they don't need to know anything.

You do need to remember that STBX would throw a strop if you'd told DC1 that he was divorcing you because you'd shagged the entire Man United squad! The fact is that he doesn't want the divorce but since it's inevitable he wants to be in 1000% control of every aspect of it, including your communications with your children regarding it. You can damn-betcha he'll be communicating plenty to them on his own but he'll tell you 'that's not the same thing'! He just doesn't want you to do it because he wants to control what you say. Do not let him.

I'm sorry you feel afraid to go home. But again what are you afraid of? If it's 'just words' then you'll just have to buck it up. Words are not 'fun', I know. But you can tune them out, or at the least look bored or blasé and keep walking. You're going to have to learn a new behaviour pattern about his tantrums. I know that 'before' you've cowered or complied to avoid them (been there!). But you're going to have to learn to stand up to him because you will be dealing with him as long as the children are minors. It's going to be important, once he's gone, to be able to say "No, that doesn't work for me" when it comes to visits, school, holidays, finances. have you thought of getting counseling to get over your fear and/or learn to be more assertive? Again, this is if you have no fear of violence. If you do, please talk to WA and your solicitor.

You need to decide what YOU are going to tell the DC.

Can I suggest you tell them something truthful? I don't love Daddy the way I used to, end of. If they really press you could say "Daddy told some lies and they have changed the way I feel about him"

Why on earth did you take the blame for something that isn't true???

What are you afraid of about going home tonight?

STBXH hasn't thought through all the consequences of insisting that he divorce me, rather than letting me divorce him, has he?

Of course he has. He has managed to manipulate you into telling your 4 yo it's your fault you are getting divorced. It's you that is getting shafted by not thinking things through properly, not your H.

It still seems foolish to me for you to let him divorce you.

Copied from t'internet

Who can apply for a decree nisi to be made absolute and when?

The petitioner can apply for decree absolute six weeks and one day after the decree nisi is pronounced.

The respondent can apply for decree absolute 3 months after that if the petitioner has failed to do so.

When I am acting for the respondent to a divorce I am often asked why he/she cannot apply for the decree nisi to be made absolute from the same date that the petitioner can.

The respondent is not equally in control of the progress of the divorce because he/she did not apply for it in the first place. In some cases, such as 2 year separation by consent this can seem unfair but the rules were drawn up at a time in our history when divorce was not common and were probably originally designed to protect the petitioner who was generally the injured party. At some point they will be updated to reflect a more modern way of living but for now we are stuck with them. In reality this particular rule doesn’t create a significant problem on the whole. If there is an urgent reason why the respondent cannot wait for 3 months an application can be made to expedite the making of the decree absolute – but I stress that this must be urgent.

The procedure for applying for the decree absolute is different depending on whether you are the petitioner or the respondent.

If you are the petitioner you simply send your application to the court with the court fee.

If you are the respondent you have to apply for a court hearing so that the court can check that there isn’t a good reason why the petitioner hasn’t made the application him/herself.

What is a good reason? Usually the only reason good enough to delay a decree absolute is where the petitioner or respondent would not be protected financially ifthe marriage was brought to a final conclusion by the absolute and there is still no financial order in place.

So for example, if the nisi is made absolute, the petitioner will therefore no longer be the widow/widower in the event of the respondent’s sudden or unexpected death. Therefore he/she will not receive any dependant’s benefits under a pension or death in service etc. if the respondent dies suddenly before a financial order is made.

This problem is resolved once there is a financial order in place as the pension is taken into account when that order is made.

Please note that a respondent can also apply to delay the making of a decree absolute in certain circumstances.

If there are no assets (such as a pension) which would be affected either way by death or decree absolute then in theory there may not be any reason to delay.

It is not always the case that you need to delay the decree absolute until your financial agreement is sorted out. You should take advice if you are not sure.

author: Nicola Williams Solicitor Mediator.

I think you need to forge on and initiate divorce proceedings for unreasonable behaviour and take back some control.

God, love! Don't tell the kids it's your fault! What are you thinking??

Kids grow up. That message grows up with them - especially as it will be systematically and heavily reinforced by shitface. He will work on them Over. For the rest of their lives - but with a heavy concentration on their childhoods. When they're impressionable and malleable.

DC1 just said to me: "I told Daddy that we'd been talking about why you've split up. And Daddy kept saying 'Did Mymmy say I was bad? Did she say I was a liar? Did she say I was selfish?' And he said I had to answer quickly before [our nanny] arrived. So in the end I said you said he was selfish to make him stop. I'm sorry Mummy."

Poor kids.

What the fuck are you both playing at ?

OP, will you please just petition this fucker and stop playing games with your STBXH. ?

No more ping pong conversations with your kids playing piggy in the middle. It is going to damage them.

Too late. His petition has been agreed. My lawyer thinks that in the circumstances it's best to do that.

STBXH has agreed that we can tell the youngest two together not this coming weekend but the weekend after.

Oh God. Shit's gotta stop. 0ver, I know you're scared, but you really, really need to cross-petition. And there needs to be some sort of 'gag order' if possible stopping the cross questioning of the children. It's damaging and may very well be used against you (and/or him). At this point I think you need to tell the children that what's between you and STBX is between you and him and that it is NOT right or fair to them to discuss those things with them in the future and that they should tell STBX that he shouldn't either if he starts asking or talking about you.

Is there any way you can begin mediation now as far as access goes so you can start to get things 'in writing' with him?

I think you may also want to keep their phones and monitor communications. If they get a call from a friend or want to call a friend, they can have the phone but it is to be returned to you. Tell them it's only temporary until things 'calm down'. Give STBX particular hours the children are 'free' to speak to him, make them 'generous hours' but inform him that the phones will be with you otherwise. Defo have the phones either off or with you overnight. I know they'll probably hate that, but it's best for now.