I'm turning into one of THOSE posters...

[0verNow]

...with multiple threads asking for advice about the same situation.

I'm trying to decide whether to end my marriage. I'm not looking for different advice from previous threads, but two of my other threads had to be deleted because DH found them, and the other is now quite long and things have moved on a bit - so I thought it might be better to start a new thread.

In summary, DH and I have been together for 10 years, married for 4 years and have 3 DCs.

There have been three issues in our marriage.

1. Right from the early days of our relationship, DH has been low-level EA. The kind of 'death by a thousand cuts' EA that sounds petty on paper but grinds your love to dust. This is the issue that brought us to counselling in the first place. DH is adamant that he wasn't deliberately abusive, just thoughtless and entitled and self-centred.

Since we started counselling, two more issues have emerged, each much more damaging (in my opinion) than the first.

2. Financial abuse. (I'm the poster whose DH spent £16k on counselling and lied to me about it.) I just didn't see it - in fact, DH had me convinced that I was crap with money. I'm still kicking myself that I was so blind.

3. DH's lies. He has lied about small things, and (at least) two enormous things (that I know of). I think lying is his default setting whenever it's more convenient than telling the truth.

Of these, 2 is largely resolved going forward. I have separated my finances from his, and although I still don't have access to our historic savings DH has offered to add me to all of his accounts.

1 is tricky. DH has been treating me well for 3 months now. I'd be interested to hear whether people think this is a new, improved DH - or just the old one on best behaviour, in which case he's likely to revert to type when he starts to relax.

But 3 is the big one for me. I don't know that I can get passed it.

There is one event which I'm particularly struggling with. It happened in 2007, and DH has lied and lied and lied to me about it. He was even still lying about it after counselling started. He has now given me 4 different versions of what happened, each one painting him in steadily worse light. The last version, which only came out last week because our counsellor forced the position, involved him covering up behaviour at work which was gross misconduct at best, and possibly criminal.

DH says that it all happened more than 8 years ago, and that living through the consequences of his 2007 behaviour has fundamentally changed him as a person.

But from my perspective, it's not 8 years old, it's all new to me. And it's not just the event from 8 years ago, it's the lies he's been telling me ever since. And I'm not at all convinced that he has changed as a person - given the ongoing lies, big and small.

I don't trust him. I still don't know if I've got to the truth about what happened in 2007. I don't know if there are other things still to discover.

If I'd known the truth 8 years ago, I would have left him. I'm very clear about that. But we didn't have DCs 8 years ago, and now we do (DC1 was conceived in the immediate aftermath).

I'm also very clear that I would not be with him now were it not for the DCs.

Am I being unreasonable to end my marriage over something that happened 8 years ago? Will my DCs hate me for splitting up their home?

I just want to do what's for the best, primarily for the DCs but also for myself.

Why can you not see that things are starting to escalate????

You need RL life support from WA and yes the police. You are increasingly more and more vulnerable.

I'm not tech savvy enough to know about tracking via a router. I know there are ways to do it via someone's keyboard.

Not to sound paranoid, but do you think it's possible he's picked up on this thread? Or perhaps other websites you've used for information? He could be trying to block you getting information or support. In a way it could only serve to show him that you are serious about divorce if he has. You really haven't said anything other than how sick of his shit you are.

You really do need to contact WA. He is trying to isolate you. And unfortunately, I do think he's succeeding a bit. Think about it. He's cut off your internet. He forces you to retreat to your room. He has you thinking you aren't worthy of support and help. He's made you feel as if you would be a burden to others if you did ask for help.

I know you've said your parents are in ill health. But IIRC your dad has offered emotional support to you in the past. And, again IIRC, he offered to have you stay with them if things became intolerable.

I live out in the country and I know how quiet and isolated one can feel. Luckily we have cell service so that isn't a problem. I know you've said you don't have 3G, and again I'm not tech savvy by any means, but my phone has a built in 'hot spot' that allows me to use it to connect to the internet. It works anywhere I can make a phone call. Is something like that available and would it work?

Why you are resisting so many mners advice ? Is it a case of the frog in the pot that was slowly cooked as the temp was rising bit by bit? Massive case of denial that will have huge repercussions for your dcc and yourself.

Please. Please please call WA. Please.

You are not safe. You really, really aren't.

This is a very, very slow car crash

But car crash it is

Over, hope you've managed to chat to someone today. This just keeps getting worse.

To some of you above, please don't show that you are losing patience with OP for not taking action. It won't help her, and your frustration is irrelevant to what's going on here. Please keep it to yourself.

0ver, you ARE being abused, and this type of abuse is now illegal. You definitely do deserve help from WA, and from 101. Please know that lots of women, including MN lurkers, have been reading your journey and we all think your H is an abuser and you may be in danger.

Wishing you courage and strength. Please tell your RL support network, even those who are geographically far away. It's important that someone who knows who you really are knows what's going on.

read the thread on Relationships, 'the Abuser profiles" ,op. which combo describes your p/h?

I've just read the Abuser Profiles.

I'd say that STBXH is definitely a combination of Mr Right and The Water Torturer, with elements of The Demand Man to a lesser degree.

I'm sorry if I'm being stupid, but please could someone spell out exactly what danger I'm in? I did wonder about the stalker qualities of The Terrorist, but (other than over the past few months, which his world has all but disintegrated and therefore his behaviour may not be typical) he has not shown any stalker tendencies at all - at least not that I've seen.

I truly think he's much too clever to be physically violent. He knows that if he ever was then he would have lost.

I wonder if I've given you a misleading impression of the events last weekend? He was physically intimidating for around 10 minutes, and then for the minutes he waited outside my room (perhaps another 20 minutes). That's all.

He hasnt needed to be violent because he has managed to keep you in your place without violence so far.
But a man who needs to control as much and to the extent that your H does is dangerous, because he feels entitled to control, and so there is absolutely no way you can know what he might do, now he feels that control slipping away, when he will need to do whatever must be done to get the upper hand again, and to ensure that you not risk trying to slip out again.

Leaving an abuser is the most dangerous time. Men who may never have shown signs of physical violence before can drive themselves beyond that point quite easily.

as an aside, my abusive ex never laid a finger on me - he never needed to as I was cowed by his raised voice. His not so timid next girlfriend was hospitalised several times.

The danger is in escalation. As Nettle says, it's that if an abuser sees that what he's done in the past is no longer working, he may escalate his abusive behaviour to regain control. That doesn't mean that it will become physically violent, but you need to realize that it can. You just need to be aware of changes in his behaviour.

Only you can know if this is happening as you know him and would be in a position to watch his behaviour.

But at this point, you need to expand you support system. Reach out to someone. Talk to your dad. Just having someone in RL to talk to or bounce ideas off can be of immense help.

OK. That makes sense. I do actually have a pretty go emotional support network - it's just a bit lacking in practical help, through absolutely no-one's fault.

My two best friends know about the events of last weekend; my SHL has sent his lawyer a letter telling him to back off.

Good, keep talking to your friends. If they know your stbx, ask them their opinions regarding escalation. Do they see it in him? And keep talking to them. The more they validate your feelings the more confidence you'll have.

Also, if they are close by or easy to get to (car/bus/train), set up an escape plan with one or both. My BFF kept a set of clothes & pjs for herself and her son, some cash, and a credit card at my house 'just in case'. She never needed to use it, but she felt better knowing it was there. I also served as 'repository' for her important papers. I lived about 20 miles from her but still close enough for her to have been able to get to work & her son to school without a huge hassle.

Even if your friends aren't that close, physically, it can still help just to know you have a bolt-hole if you need one.

Did your SHL give you any idea about being able to get him out of the house now? Or what type of behaviour might get him out in the future? I honestly don't think a letter is going to do much good in the long run.

It may be wise to get everything delivered to work when you need hard copies.

Do you have your own car? Does he have the spare key - can you get it back without him being aware perhaps (well I mean without asking for it) then you could keep a gym bag of spare clothes etc.

I really feel for you because he is not going to let you go easily, not accept it's over

Why? Why is he doing this?

Because he wants to hurt you back probably. Because he's broken deep inside maybe. Because he's a jerk?

Many possible reasons, and I know this isn't easy to hear, but I don't think it really matters too much why. What matters now is how you handle this shit.

At the risk of being a total PITA and being repetitive ... have you been able to call WA or someone for a proper chat?

Remember - you ARE going to get through this - men and women escape abusive partners every day and there's help available. You and your kids ARE going to be better off because of this.

Sweetheart, he's doing it because it's what he does. And because it's worked in the past. To a certain extent, it's working now. I know you're making baby steps and that's wonderful, but when he 'lays down an edict' (Thou shalt not tell the children), makes you scuttle into your hideyhole (by bowing up at you), threatens you with malicious lies (so you back down) or refuses to leave when you ask (beg?) him to it only reinforces to him that he can bully and threaten you and that if he keeps it up long enough you'll get back in your box. He's not seeing the baby steps you're making, or if he does they don't mean a thing to him.

You have two choices. You can continue a few baby steps more and then pack up and leave yourself because he won't leave voluntarily. Or you can take bold steps and take control of the divorce and begin to take steps to have him removed.

He is not going to change. If there is one tiny teeny spark in you that's saying 'maybe he'll play nice if…..' you need to stomp on that spark until it's dead.

Here's something else to think about. You may wonder why on earth he's hanging on so hard to a woman who has said 'I don't want you'. It's not because he loves you. It's because he knows that if he treated most women the way he treats you they'd give him a swift boot up the arse and a 'Goodby Charlie!'. So, as with most abusers, once they find a victim they hold on hard. Because they need someone to abuse and victims aren't always so easy to find! And certainly not easy to 'train'.

You can drive yourself mad asking those questions. It's something to do with the need for power, but it's not even remotely straightforward and we can armchair-psychologise until the cows come home but it will 'avail us naught' and waste time, effort and energy which can best be spent elsewhere. People like him need many many years of talking therapy before that knot loosens.

In short, try not to think about why. Think about getting away, getting him out of your life and safeguarding the children. That is productive.

You are doing really well, 0verNow. Just KOKO.

Why does he do that?

Do you honestly think the two women a week who are killed by partners or ex-partners thought they'd be killed? The vast majority genuinely didn't suspect they could be killed.

Whose idea was it to live out in the sticks?

Did you Google the Freedom Programme?

Yes, I goggled the Freedom Program. There are no courses running within 50 miles of where I live that aren't during office hours. I work FT and I need this job.

I've looked into the online version but it has very mixed reviews, including on here.

It was my idea to move to the countryside.

Online might be better than nothing

Are there any groups on a Saturday or Sunday? Agree online is better than nothing but it's meeting others - ordinary women like you and I - who are facing the same stuff that breaks the isolation; kind of rips off the veil in record time. The material used in the Freedom Programme is second to none so do take a look. There's also the booklet written by the FP author, Pat Craven, called Living with the Dominator. You could order a copy from a domestic abuse org?