Sexual compatibility.... Is assisted/oral considered Sex?

[TheOneDaysRoad]

I'm really seeking some advise here.

Me and DH are on different wave lengths when it comes to our sex life. He has a high libido and mine is way lower, always has been. I'm good with sex once a week. (Mind you he's an amazing giver constantly wants to please me, I don't think there's been a time when I haven't gotten off) Although he's okay with once a week he also expects the assisted masturbation (i.e. Having to fork my assets out for him to look at while he finishes) are sex related to me but whenever I simply say no I don't want to he phrases it as well you don't have to do anything were not having sex.

So I'm confused if I just suck it up those times when we're not having sex but I have to lend my body for his viewing pleasure? I do want to please him and see him satisfied and about half of the time say yes to these advances.

But I can't see it healthy when all the time I have to be thinking when's the last time he got off because if I helped him today then tomorrow I will get a break. But if I haven't seen him for a few days (work related) and see him, I feel compelled to do SOMETHING. I know he's a man and has wants so I'm completely lost.

One eye, I really do think your last two posts were eloquently put and valuable to the discussion. Don't be put off contributing, there is nothing to criticise in your last two posts, IMO.

"Pilloried"? Behave.

I definitely allowed myself to be coerced (or even did things without any obvious conscious coercion on the guy's part) in multiple relationships for fear of being seen as a frigid woman and therefore not worthy of a relationship.

To dismiss such a part of women's general lived existence out of hand like that and to try to put your own interpretation of it forward instead is the height of arrogance.

Well said Galvanised:
"oneeyedbloke- no need for the guilty conscience- it's not about you.
You are trying to project your own activities and feelings onto the op.
No one is really interested in what you get up to. It's not relevant here."

RedMapleLeaf

Wow, Elle, that's kinda horrible for you. I always thought the whole anal thing was potentially just an opportunity for some men to pressurize women. I stand corrected. And thanks for your supportive comments! I don't feel pilloried, btw, bit misunderstood maybe but it won't be the first or last time.

I'm just thinking, how is our discussion helping the OP? She's clearly not a prude but doesn't think she has to put up with just anything her DH wants, when he wants it. She actually has a good sex life -'he's an amazing giver constantly wants to please me, I don't think there's been a time when I haven't gotten off ... I do want to please him and see him satisfied' - she just wants advice on how to handle what she initially described as a difference in sex drive. And it sounds to me like the OP is already handling it quite well, it's just that there's a problem with him not accepting when she says no. And that's going to sour any relationship. So I wanted to suggest, basically, two things: 1. That she must never compromise on 'no means no' and 2. That she might compromise on him masturbating in certain circumstances, eg when she's not directly physically involved. At the end of the day, a compromise of some sort is needed to save their relationship. He might just have to use his imagination or, as I suggested, his memory. That's not bad or abusive or abnormal.

Smillas I'm not dismissing anything out of hand. I come on MN to learn about life and offer a male perspective. I said I found it easier to believe women allowed themselves to be coerced sexually in order to keep the peace in a relationship, to avoid conflict, rather than proving they weren't prudes, or counter a sexual myth or trope. NOT that the latter was impossible. That's not 'dismissing'. Now you & Elle say otherwise, direct from your personal experience. I have learned something. We're sharing here, right, not fighting?

Fucking hell OneEyedBloke, it isn't cool to come on a female dominated forum to tell them what is or isn't abusive behaviour. OP, your H is an arse, expecting you to do things you're reluctant to, that to me is abusive. So OneEyedBloke, stop being a dick.

Oneeyedbloke
"it's just that there's a problem with him not accepting when she says no. And that's going to sour any relationship. So I wanted to suggest, basically, two things: 1. That she must never compromise on 'no means no' and 2. That she might compromise on him masturbating in certain circumstances, eg when she's not directly physically involved. At the end of the day, a compromise of some sort is needed to save their relationship."
You are right in identifying the problem as his refusal to accept it when she says no. You are wrong in suggesting that the solution is for her to compromise. The only solution is for him to accept it when she says no. It's that simple. She doesn't need to "allow" him to masterbate without her because she has never tried to stop him doing that. He's the one insisting that she's involved in his masterbation, either by being present or providing photos. He's putting a huge amount of pressure on her. Can't you see that?

I think you need to be aware of your position when you post about issues like this. You're a man which means you have a certain amount of privilege and power. I find your tone quite patronising. I don't think your experience is relevant in this case, because you've never coerced your partner, have you, or made further demands after she already said no? And if you did you'd be in the wrong.

the OP is clearly not a prude how do you define prude?

*it's just that there's a problem with him not accepting when she says no" When do you think you'll be using this forum to learn all about women having had a problem with men just not accepting the word 'no'?

'to offer a male perspective'. Mate, that is not in short supply in this world of ours. MN is a rarity, in that it is a majority-woman space where ideas and experiences are shared, usually without a bloke explaining to women how they've misunderstood. For that reason, it can look like a space where a man's opinion is sorely lacking. I'd be really careful about assuming women need to hear from us because they don't know what we think and it would enlighten them.

Especially, and really especially, when it comes to sex. Women hear a goshdarn lot about what men think, feel, and demand around sex. Personal perspectives can be really useful, but it's probably not the best approach to speak for men and suggest you're opening up an unknown source of knowledge.

There's also a rather unhelpful pattern which often appears on threads like this, which runs thus:

A) Woman explains a problem/ tensions/ issue she's dealing with around sex and relationships
B) Man explains his wife/ girlfriend had similar issues
C) Man explains (sometimes in squicky terms) how this was resolved to his satisfaction.
D) It is thus demonstrated to his satisfaction that not all women have a problem with this issue.

Happened on the 'submission whilst feminist' thread, happened on various 'sex drive' threads, and I worry it's a bit of a pattern. It's one which tends to invalidate the OP's concerns. I'm not suggesting anyone should not post, or even change their opinion, but as men we're at real risk of thinking we can 'explain away' problems. And particularly in this area, that can be less than valuable.

I think the OPs husband is sexually dysfunctional. What the OP can/should do about that I haven't the foggiest. If he's a terrific bloke in all other respects I'd ask him to go for psychsexual therapy. At the very least he needs to quit the porn.

*psychosexual

...and I cannot fathom why any man would join mumsnet. No offence.

QuiteIrregular
Now there's a male contribution I appreciate.

Testicles I'm not TELLING anyone anything. I'm just putting my opinion forward, like everyone else. And I'm not personally abusing anyone either.

AnotherEmma I was saying both. The OP's husband needs to accept his wife's No AND I think some sort of compromise on the type of sexual activity is needed, or would help. I think I've been consistent about that in my posts.

As for my power & privilege, I have neither here. Don't have any away from here either.

My experience isn't relevant because I've never coerced my partner? So I'd be listened to with close attention on MN if I was more of a bastard? But I do have experience of wanting sex more than my wife - at times. So I thought I'd share it, to see if that would help the OP. I'm genuinely sorry you find my tone patronising. I can't apologise for being a man, though.

Oneeyedbloke

"As for my power & privilege, I have neither here. Don't have any away from here either."

As a man, you do have power and privilege. If you can't recognise or accept that, you have no place posting on a forum which is mainly for women.

" I think some sort of compromise on the type of sexual activity is needed, or would help. I think I've been consistent about that in my posts."

I didn't say you were inconsistent. I said you were wrong.

None taken, Elle. I'm here because I grew up with second-wave feminism, one aspect of which was, men's refusal/inability to see women's point of view. So I've always thought that liberation for women would mean liberation for men as well, from our traditional roles. I'm well used to some women saying fuck off, feminism/Mumsnet isn't for you, why do men always have to try & muscle in on stuff that's just for women? But I do no muscling, and still wonder what those women want or expect men to do - somehow transform themselves from powerful, privileged male chauvinists into -what, exactly? Mice? New men? And do it without talking to women? If we stick to our separate forums/cultures, isn't that a recipe for no change, continued inequality, continuing violence against women, the whole shitty shebang?

Oneeyed you said: 'Helena I think women often are coerced into things they don't want to do, but to prove they aren't prudes? Really?'

What makes you think you know why women do things better than women themselves?

QuiteIrregular: 'to offer a male perspective'. Mate, that is not in short supply in this world of ours.

Hear, hear. What is it with some of the men that seem to find their way here being utterly oblivious to the fact that a good proportion of the women posting here are doing so from the position of being in, or having been in, close, successful relationships with men? Ones where the myth of women being from Venus and men being from Mars is not perpetuated (thank Christ)?

The OP is asking what to do about her partner thinking his needs and wants trump her needs and wants - what do we need? Oh yes, a male perspective, that's the ticket, I'm sure!

Oneeyedbloke: So I wanted to suggest, basically, two things: 1. That she must never compromise on 'no means no' and 2. That she might compromise on him masturbating in certain circumstances, eg when she's not directly physically involved. At the end of the day, a compromise of some sort is needed to save their relationship. He might just have to use his imagination or, as I suggested, his memory. That's not bad or abusive or abnormal.

Either you don't get that she doesn't have a problem with him wanking on his own, or you have some serious cognitive dissonance going on with 'no means no' and 'oh but compromise (on her part) is needed and that involves her being involved in sexual activity she doesn't want to be involved in'.

If your question about what you should do as a man the answer is: listen to women.

OneEyedBloke
"I'm here because I grew up with second-wave feminism, one aspect of which was, men's refusal/inability to see women's point of view."
Oh the irony

Another Emma:
What I said: 'I wanted to suggest, basically, two things: 1. That she must never compromise on 'no means no' and 2. That she might compromise on him masturbating in certain circumstances, eg when she's not directly physically involved.'

What you said: 'You are right in identifying the problem as his refusal to accept it when she says no. You are wrong in suggesting that the solution is for her to compromise. The only solution is forhim to accept it when she says no. It's that simple.'

And then I repeated my point 2: 'I think some sort of compromise on the type of sexual activity is needed, or would help. I think I've been consistent about that in my posts.'

And then you said: 'I didn't say you were inconsistent. I said you were wrong.'

Well, you get to make this gag because you decided to forget about my first point, which I'll repeat again because quite a few posters don't seem to have heard it: 'she must never compromise on 'no means no'.

We can all do this: selectively (mis)quote, sum up others' views the way we'd kinda like them to be so that we can express our disgust at them and feel good. Still doesn't mean I'm 'wrong'. How about you explain what you meant when you said my experience isn't relevant because I've never coerced my partner. You deselected that, too.

Look, Oneeyedbloke, the vast majority of posters have challenged you patiently and politely with you. But you're still not listening or accepting the majority point of view. It's getting to the point where I don't think you deserve quite so much patience or politeness. Tbh I wish you would listen or go away!

with you

QuiteIrregular Yes but. If you read my posts I think you'll find I'm not 'explaining' anything to anyone. I'm suggesting, putting in my opinion on a sexual issue I've had some experience of. You, on the other hand, are explaining to me where I'm making a mistake, by telling me I've said things I haven't said. Is that OK because I'm a man? I'm on this thread to share my experiences in the hope they might help someone. What are you on here for?