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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Sexual compatibility.... Is assisted/oral considered Sex?

215 replies

TheOneDaysRoad · 30/10/2015 20:27

I'm really seeking some advise here.

Me and DH are on different wave lengths when it comes to our sex life. He has a high libido and mine is way lower, always has been. I'm good with sex once a week. (Mind you he's an amazing giver constantly wants to please me, I don't think there's been a time when I haven't gotten off) Although he's okay with once a week he also expects the assisted masturbation (i.e. Having to fork my assets out for him to look at while he finishes) are sex related to me but whenever I simply say no I don't want to he phrases it as well you don't have to do anything were not having sex.

So I'm confused if I just suck it up those times when we're not having sex but I have to lend my body for his viewing pleasure? I do want to please him and see him satisfied and about half of the time say yes to these advances.

But I can't see it healthy when all the time I have to be thinking when's the last time he got off because if I helped him today then tomorrow I will get a break. But if I haven't seen him for a few days (work related) and see him, I feel compelled to do SOMETHING. I know he's a man and has wants so I'm completely lost.

OP posts:
NameChange30 · 31/10/2015 11:13

RedMaple reminds me a bit of "calm down dear"! Anyone who dares challenge a man and his motives must be put in their place!

ElleAndAitch · 31/10/2015 11:21

Because you plunged straight in with your abuse theory. You have no evidence of this so why extrapolate?

Oneeyedbloke · 31/10/2015 11:24

On second thoughts, I don't know a man who doesn't wank alone at least sometimes. I don't buy any of the 'needs' or 'blue balls' stuff. It does seem to be true that men want sex - or at least orgasms - more. But, IME, it's at least as much to do with time, and mood. Like, on those occasions where he's asking for 'assistance', are you thinking, why now? When I'm trying to get ready for work/sort the kitchen out/phone my mum? So you feel resentful that his top priority is always 'my next orgasm' even though you enjoy sex when you're both up for it? I'd just be interested to know, how is he with housework/other stuff.

pocketsaviour · 31/10/2015 12:13

Being there while someone else masturbates is sex, yes.
It's not intercourse.

Maybe ask him "So you'd be okay with it if I watched your best mate have a wank over my tits, then? After all, it's not sex!"

If you're happy with him having a wank over your photo and when you do have sex together it's great, then it sounds like a good compromise to me. If your sex drives are different then there is always going to be a degree of compromise. I would rather have a partner happily wanking than me feeling resentful and obligated to help him get off.

BertieBotts · 31/10/2015 12:17

He has a REALLY unhealthy attitude towards sex. And you have a really low standard of how you expect to be treated WRT sex. It's not a great combination Confused

Ponytailandquiff · 31/10/2015 12:39

Op the thought of what you are having to do makes me so glad I am single.

differentnameforthis · 31/10/2015 12:45

ElleAndAitch The abusive aspect comes about from the fact that he DOESN'T LISTEN to the op.

He said he'd understand, then asked the op to watch him, then when she walked away, he asked for photos of her...

He is not giving in, he is wearing her down to a point where she will give into him, in order to get a break tomorrow.

It's coercive. It's controlling. It's abuse.

VenusRising · 31/10/2015 12:50

Be careful with those pictures op, he could use them for porn revenge later on when if you break up.
Delete them off his phone.

And please phone women's aid for a chat. You partner sounds abusive.

Remember you have needs too, like respect and love, what about them?

ElleAndAitch · 31/10/2015 12:54

Yes, I have to concur. I think you're right.

Oneeyedbloke · 31/10/2015 13:17

At the end of the day, OP, your DH must accept that your 'no' really means no. It's not on for him to say 'assisted/oral' isn't really sex because you're not having to do anything. Leaving aside that oral means you definitely are doing something, you ARE involved even if he's just wanking on you. Of course it's sex, and there's no reason why it shouldn't be an enjoyable way of dealing with a mismtach of libidos - if that's all it is, which I must say I rather doubt. And you do say yes half the time, though obv I hope it's not just because you're caving in to pressure.

I think some posters here, and on MN generally, tend to assume that anything other than 'normal', in-bed, no-frills PIV sex must mean we're dealing with a mean, pervy guy. Consent is the issue here, surely. And you need to consent even to just being looked at while your OH wanks. Otherwise he's trampling on your dignity. But if/when you're OK with it, I think it's a much nicer way of managing an imbalance of sex drives than banishing him to the bathroom with porn. I love it when my DW agrees to 'just watch'. It's a nice moment, not as great as full sex but it's kept the spark alive through years of tiredness & kids.

Galvanised · 31/10/2015 13:33

Oneeyedbloke - do you have difficulties understanding that that's why the op posted? - because actually she does have a problem with being asked to participate as often as she does.
That was the whole point of her opening post.
And you really have no idea what everyone here gets up to, so please done assume you do.
If your partner is happy with what you both do, that's great. It's still irrelevant to the op's situation though, she's a different person and she's not happy.

RedMapleLeaf · 31/10/2015 13:37

Because you plunged... what question are you answering here Elle? Confused If you think I'm wrong, and that this set up is all healthy and acceptable, than argue the point.

RedMapleLeaf · 31/10/2015 13:40

But if/when you're OK with it,

That's the whole point of the thread. She isn't ok with it.

I love it when my DW agrees to 'just watch'.

Confused
Oneeyedbloke · 31/10/2015 13:40

'A) an orgasm is not a Need, B) an orgasm does not require a prop and C) it is being met at the expense of the OP's well being.'

Well RedMaple a) orgasm is definitely a need for me, b) is that a fact? Or simply your opinion that it ought not to require a 'prop'? c) I completely agree - who could not? - that the OP's well-being shouldn't be sacrificed to her DH's need for an orgasm - and it seems it isn't on every occasion. The problem is that he wants orgasms more often than the OP is willing to agree to.

Who among us could say that sex never involves what you interestingly call a 'prop'? That seems a term entirely appropriate to porn, but not to a partner's body. The whole difficulty centres around her feeling that her DH is sometimes using her body in a way uncomfortably close to a pornographic prop. And that's bad because on those occasions she doesn't want that, not because the use of porn per se - or any other psychological 'prop' - is automatically abusive.

Do you, for example, think that using the memory of sex with your partner as a 'prop'
for masturbation is always wrong? Or the sight of your partner's body? I think it's not what you do, it's the way that you do it, that matters most. Consent is the issue.

RedMapleLeaf · 31/10/2015 13:47

Well, I think most people can think of times in their lives when they have needed food, shelter, help etc because they are needs but they've managed to live without having orgasms.

Do you, for example, think that using the memory of sex with your partner as a 'prop' for masturbation is always wrong? Or the sight of your partner's body?

I wonder why someone would come on to a thread about a woman asking for support over issues of sexual consent and boundaries and decide that actually, he'd rather make it all about him getting his wife to watch him wank, to suggest that other posters are prudes and to ask other posters about how they masturbate.

Oneeyedbloke · 31/10/2015 13:49

Galvanised I don't think so. But some posters seem to be assuming a) that the whole 'assisted' thing - ie him masturbating while she's there watching/helping - is prima facie evidence of creepiness, and I disagree. And b) that the OP agrees with this view, when in fact she's said she's OK with it sometimes.

It's consent. If she's not respected when she says no I'm not up for it, it's clearly going to cause problems in the whole of her relationship.

Oneeyedbloke · 31/10/2015 13:51

Wow RedMaple I've done no such thing. Verging on the ad hominem yourself?

Galvanised · 31/10/2015 14:00

oneeyedbloke- no need for the guilty conscience- it's not about you.
You are trying to project your own activities and feelings onto the op.
No one is really interested in what you get up to. It's not relevant here.

HelenaDove · 31/10/2015 14:14

One eyed bloke ,............"men need sex and orgasms more than women" tick

"I think some posters here, and on MN generally, tend to assume that anything other than 'normal', in-bed, no-frills PIV sex must mean we're dealing with a mean, pervy guy"

because women are prudes who dont like sex really

And then women end up feeling or being coerced into things they dont want to do to prove those tropes and assumptions arent the case One Eyed.

Well youve mentioned two sexist myths sits and waits for hat trick

cailindana · 31/10/2015 14:24

A need is something that you must have in order not to die. Plenty of people live just fine without orgasms, they are not a need.
I agree though with the rest of your points oneeyed, the issue isn't around what the DH does but around his attitude and his inability to accept it when his wife says no.

Oneeyedbloke · 31/10/2015 15:09

'And then women end up feeling or being coerced into things they dont want to do to prove those tropes and assumptions arent the case'

Helena I think women often are coerced into things they don't want to do, but to prove they aren't prudes? Really? I didn't say women are prudes for not wanting anything other than straight sex. That was your struck out suggestion. And I don't accept that what I did say implies it. I'm trying to say, perhaps not very successfully, that both men and women are way more liberal than that, and the OP clearly said 'about half of the time [I] say yes to these advances'.

I'd say women get coerced into doing things they don't want to do to keep the peace/avoid confrontation, not to prove they're as un-prudish as men. And imo that's the clear implication of what the OP is saying. I'm trying to say, don't chuck the baby out with the bathwater, there are much worse things than your OH wanting to have sex with you more than you want to have sex with him, and we all read about them on MN. There are all sorts of ways of having sex, don't let's assume that someone is abusive because he wants to wank on his wife. It's abusive if he wants to and she doesn't - either ever or tonight - and he tries to coerce her/do it anyway.

So, I repeat, imo the issue is not really 'assisted', oral, wanking, getting your assets out, whatever. Those are all rather mechanical, cheapening phrases, but hey the OP had to make it clear what she was talking about. The issue is consent to any of the above, and it can't be assumed by her DH that because she consents half of the time, he can assume consent or disregard it the rest of the time.

Tbh it sounds to me like the OP is beginning to get brassed off with ALL the 'extras'. Which, of course, you'd expect if he's trying to coerce her.

Oneeyedbloke · 31/10/2015 15:16

cailindana in one sense of course men don't live without orgasms, they die out, and so do women. I guess you mean it's not a need on the same, immediate plane as food & shelter & of course I agree. And no way should anyone use their desire for sex to coerce anyone else into it. I think I already said that, the whole 'blue balls' crap is the purest male BS. Have a wank. But in a loving relationship, it's madness to sideline sexual desire. It does amount to a need in that context, imo, because without it, the relationship suffers and dies.

RedMapleLeaf · 31/10/2015 15:19

Christ.

ElleAndAitch · 31/10/2015 15:46

Redmaple, yes, I have altered my thinking somewhat since we posted. I agree that not heeding the OPc's reluctance to always be party to his 'need' for an orgasm is abusive, but I don't like how oneeye is now being pilloried (although I also dislike his inference that most of us are unreasonable prudes) for his contribution.

And no....I do not considered orgasm a need.

ElleAndAitch · 31/10/2015 15:52

I first attempted anal sex to prove I wasn't a prude I then continued - over successive years and throughout various relationships - to submit to this brutal bestiality so that I wouldn't be viewed as anything other than a free-thinking and adventurous sauce-pot.