aibu? i'm just so tired (v v long)

[thestamp]

my husband has a few complaints about me, and has for years.

some of them are probably founded. others may be blown out of proportion. all of them are based on me and my very real strengths and weaknesses... things i have worked on for years but that can only be changed so much.

i love him and want it to work but he is just so unhappy and i feel like no matter what he always will be.

we have been together for over 10 years now, from when i was a teenager. back then i was gobby and immature and generally flirty and not a particularly amazing gf - but i always loved him and was devoted to him in my own silly teenage way. and i never cheated on him, hand on heart - but a few times, he very much thought that i did.

we were really tempestuous but we learned a lot in the early years and i thought we had a really good thing. we got married in our mid 20s. we have so many good times. we have wonderful dcs. we think the same way about money, managed to build up great careers, etc. etc. and have a great sex life.

but every few months, no matter what, it will come up again that he thinks i am going to "humiliate" him - cheat on him, gossip maliciously about him, something like that. embarrass him, disrespect him.

he says that it is because i have regularly (a few times a year) humiliated him, including the time he thought that i had cheated on him, 8 years ago. (i stayed on at a bar, without him, until closing time with one of his friends - was v drunk and was having one of those philosophical convos that seemed v important at the time. it was stupid and i didn't so much as kiss the boy. and i was 21, so also an idiot. dh seems 50% sure that i actually cheated on him with this boy)

other much more recent example: we were out with my work mates and he and another person were talking to me at once, one in each ear, not realising they were talking over each other, so i put my hands up and snapped loudly (pretty rudely i think) that i couldn't hear because everyone was talking to me ("aaagh stop it everyone is talking to me at once!!"). dh took this as me humiliating him and trying to embarrass/dismiss him in front of my friends, as a sign of my basic disrespect for him. i see it as me being impulsively rude, not thinking before i reacted, which i apologised for. this happened almost a year ago now but has been regularly brought up as a reason for him feeling down about our relationship. he will now not socialise with me when i am with my work mates.

(note, i realise alcohol was involved in both of these instances! in response, i rarely have more than 2 drinks when out with my dh because i recognise the trigger for my rudeness/thoughtlessness.)

there are assorted other instances that, to him, are a huge pile of things that add up to a big, bad feeling that he can never trust me.

i can see where he is coming from, to an extent. i would be hurt if my dh did and said hurtful things to me on nights out. at the same time, i know that i have never cheated on him and that my life pretty much revolves around him. i speak highly of him to others. i rarely if ever moan about him to friends (which is unusual in my group of friends!). i keep so much to myself because i want to do right by him.

whenever i say something like "i know that you feel this way but my rudeness is a reflection of my character flaws - i can be impulsive, snappy, rude, inconsiderate - not a reflection on my feelings for you" he will answer something like "but if you really respected me you would never treat me that way". to which i respond "but everyone says and does stupid things to their partner sometimes! it's part of life".

which he disagrees with. tbf he rarely upsets me. he is generally a stellar husband. really. the bad news is that when i do confront him about something, it WILL end up with him basically saying that he's done it because he has been affected by my long term disrespect for him. so i almost always end up apologising, even when it's me that was wanting an apology from him to start with. that part really tires me out.

i am so tired of being the bad guy. 10 years of being the bad guy is really wearing me down.

i can see where he is coming from but i am starting to ask myself, why did he marry me when he is so unhappy with me? he has said himself that he never trusted me so why even propose? why has he bought a house with me, started a business with me, had children with me, when he can't trust me? i have asked him and he has basically said "well i love you" and in less happy moments "well i just followed along with what you wanted".

sigh.

what does one do in this situation?

i was his first serious gf and i do think that he thinks there are women out there who are much more respectful and loving than me. from my perspective, i think he has got a good wife in me and i'm not actually sure he could find someone else who would try so hard to do right by him. aibu to think that?

of course i do stupid, really thoughtless things sometimes - things that can seem cruel even though they're not intended in that way - a few times a year say. aibu to think everyone does?

i tend to be a leader, he tends to follow me. this has led to many happy things for him but i feel he hasn't always been true to himself. but now, i have this dread that he actually SHOULD leave me, that he actually wants to, but never will because he struggles to take decisive action.

i just feel so so tired thinking about another 50+ years married to someone who is offended by things that i can't change. i want desperately for him to be happy.

he won't go to counselling.

You need to shut him down quicker

"It's over, it's not open to discussion"

"Waiting until New Year for a new car doesn't work for me, it needs sorting this week" and repeat...

you're right Random.
Shall go into this weekend with that mindset. it's really about breaking all my habits.

honestly this is half the reason we have to separate physically. i can't reset myself properly/completely until i am out of his space. being in a house with him just wears me down.

But you know you don't really need his permission to leave/take steps to go stamp?

Even if he has practical control over getting the car. You can just tell him you are going to buy a car. It is happening.

he's also started on the whole "i love everything about you though, i don't have any complaints about you, all the bad treatment and complaining about you was me just being insecure, it will be all different now because How about a response along the lines of "Yes, that may be true, but I don't love/want you now. And I don't want to be with you. Or perhaps my feelings don't actually matter to you, only your own."

"honestly this is half the reason we have to separate physically. i can't reset myself properly/completely until i am out of his space. being in a house with him just wears me down."

THIS. This, this, this with bells on! I was going to say it but you've said it yourself OP!

I'm afraid I can't remember if you've already posted to explain the reason you're still living together? Are there any challenges we can advise you on resolving so you can physically be apart from him?

we are still living together because of our financial situation. it's complex - to do with the business we both own.

i could move out and rent somewhere. but i need a car. for which i need to access money from the business. for which i need his signoff.

it will take a while to sort the business stuff, so i am relying on my negotiation skills for now in hopes that i get a quicker result than i would by purely waiting. unfortunately this puts me in a difficult position because i am "available" for him to try a lot of emotional tactics during these negotiations (i have done well so far in fielding them, but they are still draining.)

any advice gratefully received though i appreciate that i'm being a little vague - i have reason to be.

going to have a chat with colleague just now since i might do a few nights a week sleeping at theirs just to get away and start breaking that contact pattern.

The problem with living with him, negotiating and waiting for him to agree to the car purpose is that it gives him ALL the power. I think he's going to stall for as long as possible. He might never agree to let you go.

Have you had legal advice about the business situation?

If you own part of the business, why do you need his permission ? What do you mean by " take money out of the business " ? Don't you get your salary and dividends regularly ( assuming it's a limited company ) ?

Or are you sole traders ?

I think stamp said she'd sought legal advice on the business stuff and the outcome was that she needs to wait a few months.

Stamp's clearly concerned for her privacy so although some MNs might want to help with that stuff I think we have to be conscious not to pressure her into sharing more than she is comfortable with!

I've read your thread with growing admiration, thestamp. You are quite something.

Alongside that is a nagging fear for you.

You already know that now, when you are leaving and he knows it, is the most dangerous time.

To your H his lack of control over you must seem sudden and shocking.

I don't believe his "epiphany" is anything other than his last roll of the dice in his game of "respect" and offence.

Once he can see that his gambit has failed, I worry for what his next move will be. He's not likely to bow out gracefully.

I know you have things in place, and you're a smart woman, but please, please be careful.

A man who would keep a toddler up late for hours to manipulate his wife is cruel and capable of inflicting physical pain to get his way.

Can you use your wages to secure a car loan? Then pay it out in a few months?

I think you should separate as soon as you can as I think he will turn nasty once he realises his pity party isn't working. Even if you need to stay with a friend for awhile.

Oh and another thing, you said to him "he didn't know what he was doing". I hope you know he did, he acted in a way that got him a payoff.

i can't use my wages for a car loan unfortunately. the wage i take out of the business (that both of us take out - we get equal amounts) is extremely low. dividends are ad hoc but must be signed off by both. i'm working on it. i have a small something socked away that i just remembered today.

we're not in the uk, company law has its own foibles here, which i'm trying to work my way around. if i'm too rash, i could end up paying through my nose at yr end - just when i need cash to set up my life.

i know that the common wisdom is that abusers "know what they are doing". sadly i'm intimately acquainted with a few different abusers... the ones i've known simply operate on emotion, in the moment, and are in a kind of haze of denial that keeps them from thinking rationally. they abuse people like others may abuse drugs. to get relief from pain. they are barely conscious of their own motivations. they are "responsible" for their behaviour, sure - whatever that means. but all the responsibility in the world doesn't make them conscious of themselves in the moment of abuse. they are who they are and do what they do because they are trying their best, but unfortunately their best isn't very good, so people like me end up disappearing from their lives.

i don't believe in free will at all, i think it's absolutely an illusion. i believe people do the thing that they have no choice but to do, based on the hand dealt to them and the circumstances that are around them.
doesn't mean anyone has to put up with what others do... just means there's no point trying to change people, or explain to them why they're wrong, or fight with them, or try to show how you are right and they are wrong, or any of that... one just has to wake up and see people as they are, not as you wish them to be, and start actively choosing how close you want to be to a person, based on what they show you they are capable of.

i have woken up and realised that my h isn't capable of caring for me, that he simply has too many problems and that he has been using me to run away from them (again, like a drug), so the steps i'm taking now are the ones i need in order to increase the distance between us. i'm telling him the truth about that, in a limited way though, because i know that the more i talk or explain or accuse or blame, the more the path is clouded.

far better to show empathy but create distance at the same time. the more anger i show him, the more embroiled i will get with him. i have to be zen. i have to be the quiet place in this situation, for myself, because that's all i have. i've just read over what i wrote yesterday and realised that i was doing the exact opposite and i need to get my shit together, pronto.

i have to remember that i am going to get a car
i am going to get my own house
i am going to have my own life
i just have to be brave, and calm.

i think that on some level he is starting to realise that he is actually very safe in this situation - i am not going to attack or shame or humiliate him - and, i can't be moved. so he can finally stop struggling against me. i think i do feel a sensation of relief beginning to emanate from him, mixed in with the grief and pain.
this may be the calm before the storm but i have to keep the faith.

the dangerous times are those when i don't maintain quiet inside myself. when i get drawn in and start to think "he knew what he was doing". those times are when i can see him thinking, "she is still engaged with me. i might be able to fight hard enough that she will change her mind". so those thoughts don't serve me.

** i am very thankful for all the advice in this thread. i'm not criticising anyone for the advice they've given - i massively appreciate everyone who's posted here.
everything i've written above is me taking the advice, looking inside myself critically, and then using the advice to clarify what i must do.
in the process of banging on above, i actually realised that the connecting thread from yesterday's low mood to today's better mood was, actually, me practicing calm and maintaining distance last night. and the thing that caused the low mood was, actually, me wallowing in blame and anger rather than just taking a step back and realising this is all par for the course and i can let it go.

Can you get a cheap car with the little bit you've put away? Might be a good action to take to start you off.

Great, thoughtful post by the way

He knows you need a car before you can leave. You will not get a car before you leave.

I think most people know how to get what they want. Non-abusive people recognise that getting what you want is often bad for other people and for yourself in the long run. I agree with Lundy - abusive people are all different but share one common characteristic; that they are entitled to treat other people abusively.

You are right though that now is definitely not the time to be thinking about culpability. It is the time for calm and focused action.

*that they feel they are

He is thinking, not feeling.

he has definitely felt entitled to abuse me. no doubt about that. the entitlement is unspoken and subconscious, as all senses of entitlement are - they are deeply embedded and can't be argued with. telling him (or myself) that this entitlement is unfair or unethical does nothing. i just have to remove myself.

about thinking vs. feeling...
very few people think. the unendingly vast majority of people act on feelings only.
i would go so far as to say that it is irrational to assume that any person thinks more than a few times a month, at the very most.

i have to be the one who thinks, because that's what gives me my advantage.

just had a brainwave. wish i could post it here but can't.
i will get a car. he has some power, but not all - not even most. i am stronger than him in many different ways.

feel for him - he is going to have a very hard time without me there to be strong for him. i really, really hope, for his sake and my own, that he is able one day to care for himself. the only hope he has, though, is me leaving him to it.

I don't think the 'hard time' people like him have is relative to anything that is going on around them. It's inside them. You being there or not will make no difference. He is committed to having a hard time whatever happens IMO.

I allow myself to think where I won't allow myself to feel. The feelings don't go away, they just get turned inward! I think that's the worst part of being the rescuer personality!

hi stamp, I've just read your thread and am wondering how you are?

Stamp, ^about thinking vs. feeling...
very few people think. the unendingly vast majority of people act on feelings only.
i would go so far as to say that it is irrational to assume that any person thinks more than a few times a month, at the very most.

i have to be the one who thinks, because that's what gives me my advantage.^

I was just "thinking" that maybe people who over think are the ones who end up being abused ? questioning, analysing, reasoning... rather than deciding to act because what we are "feeling" makes it essential to act, & in this case,
ending your relationship...

i'm sorry i didn't see the messages left last month.

i am doing ok. dh seems to have accepted that the relationship is over, as i suspected he was starting to when i last posted.

i don't have a car yet - but it has worked out ok. now that the new year is here, i am feeling more able to move forward. i'm hoping to purchase a car this month, and perhaps move out at the end of this month. The car is the more important things right now.

we have a three-floor house - dh has the bottom floor, the dc and i have the top floor and the middle floor (with entrance, kitchen etc) is common ground. so if we have to stay in the same house for as many months as i suspected initially, that is not as bad as it could be. what would be worse would be to keep being carless. can't do it for much longer.

christmas was a nightmare but i held it together. dh has swung from being extremely nice/huggy/can't do enough, to humiliating me in front of family members/being a total selfish clueless arse, and then back again. hard to cope with but i didn't take any bait. the whole of xmas was just a massive, multi day piece of performance for me. there were important reasons for me to put the performance on, things that have nothing to do with dh and were much more important than our situation, but i can honestly say, never, ever again. xmas 2016 will be spent somewhere hot and expensive, with waiters and chambermaids. i'll pay it off for the rest of my life if i have to.

we had a holiday booked for this week. a lovely holiday that i had been yearning for before all this kicked off. i cancelled it over christmas. i just couldn't bear to go with dh, or alone, i'm not ready for either. i'm feeling low and sad about it.

i'm really struggling with the knowledge that i invested so much into our relationship and now here i am, early 30s, and i'm walking away and having to start again.

i wish i had someone to take care of me. all i ever seem to do is take care of other people - i get bled dry and no-one seems to even notice. it's really depressing.

i want to lie in the bath and cry while someone strokes my hair. while someone actually listens to me talk. instead of waiting for their turn to contradict me. i just feel i have been emptied out of so much.

i realise how incredibly vulnerable i am. how i yearn to be loved. how easily i could be taken advantage of. how easily i could be degraded, humiliated, treated badly, just for the chance to feel for a moment that someone cared about me, took my part, loved me, wanted to see me, thought well of me.

i've spent so much time and effort looking after the emotions and moods of another person. i'm realising just this week how little care i've received myself. hurts a lot.

wish i knew what the answer was. i wonder if i am just hard wired this way. to seek out takers, and to try to make them love me, by giving my all. only to wake up years later and find that i am empty and alone.