aibu? i'm just so tired (v v long)

[thestamp]

my husband has a few complaints about me, and has for years.

some of them are probably founded. others may be blown out of proportion. all of them are based on me and my very real strengths and weaknesses... things i have worked on for years but that can only be changed so much.

i love him and want it to work but he is just so unhappy and i feel like no matter what he always will be.

we have been together for over 10 years now, from when i was a teenager. back then i was gobby and immature and generally flirty and not a particularly amazing gf - but i always loved him and was devoted to him in my own silly teenage way. and i never cheated on him, hand on heart - but a few times, he very much thought that i did.

we were really tempestuous but we learned a lot in the early years and i thought we had a really good thing. we got married in our mid 20s. we have so many good times. we have wonderful dcs. we think the same way about money, managed to build up great careers, etc. etc. and have a great sex life.

but every few months, no matter what, it will come up again that he thinks i am going to "humiliate" him - cheat on him, gossip maliciously about him, something like that. embarrass him, disrespect him.

he says that it is because i have regularly (a few times a year) humiliated him, including the time he thought that i had cheated on him, 8 years ago. (i stayed on at a bar, without him, until closing time with one of his friends - was v drunk and was having one of those philosophical convos that seemed v important at the time. it was stupid and i didn't so much as kiss the boy. and i was 21, so also an idiot. dh seems 50% sure that i actually cheated on him with this boy)

other much more recent example: we were out with my work mates and he and another person were talking to me at once, one in each ear, not realising they were talking over each other, so i put my hands up and snapped loudly (pretty rudely i think) that i couldn't hear because everyone was talking to me ("aaagh stop it everyone is talking to me at once!!"). dh took this as me humiliating him and trying to embarrass/dismiss him in front of my friends, as a sign of my basic disrespect for him. i see it as me being impulsively rude, not thinking before i reacted, which i apologised for. this happened almost a year ago now but has been regularly brought up as a reason for him feeling down about our relationship. he will now not socialise with me when i am with my work mates.

(note, i realise alcohol was involved in both of these instances! in response, i rarely have more than 2 drinks when out with my dh because i recognise the trigger for my rudeness/thoughtlessness.)

there are assorted other instances that, to him, are a huge pile of things that add up to a big, bad feeling that he can never trust me.

i can see where he is coming from, to an extent. i would be hurt if my dh did and said hurtful things to me on nights out. at the same time, i know that i have never cheated on him and that my life pretty much revolves around him. i speak highly of him to others. i rarely if ever moan about him to friends (which is unusual in my group of friends!). i keep so much to myself because i want to do right by him.

whenever i say something like "i know that you feel this way but my rudeness is a reflection of my character flaws - i can be impulsive, snappy, rude, inconsiderate - not a reflection on my feelings for you" he will answer something like "but if you really respected me you would never treat me that way". to which i respond "but everyone says and does stupid things to their partner sometimes! it's part of life".

which he disagrees with. tbf he rarely upsets me. he is generally a stellar husband. really. the bad news is that when i do confront him about something, it WILL end up with him basically saying that he's done it because he has been affected by my long term disrespect for him. so i almost always end up apologising, even when it's me that was wanting an apology from him to start with. that part really tires me out.

i am so tired of being the bad guy. 10 years of being the bad guy is really wearing me down.

i can see where he is coming from but i am starting to ask myself, why did he marry me when he is so unhappy with me? he has said himself that he never trusted me so why even propose? why has he bought a house with me, started a business with me, had children with me, when he can't trust me? i have asked him and he has basically said "well i love you" and in less happy moments "well i just followed along with what you wanted".

sigh.

what does one do in this situation?

i was his first serious gf and i do think that he thinks there are women out there who are much more respectful and loving than me. from my perspective, i think he has got a good wife in me and i'm not actually sure he could find someone else who would try so hard to do right by him. aibu to think that?

of course i do stupid, really thoughtless things sometimes - things that can seem cruel even though they're not intended in that way - a few times a year say. aibu to think everyone does?

i tend to be a leader, he tends to follow me. this has led to many happy things for him but i feel he hasn't always been true to himself. but now, i have this dread that he actually SHOULD leave me, that he actually wants to, but never will because he struggles to take decisive action.

i just feel so so tired thinking about another 50+ years married to someone who is offended by things that i can't change. i want desperately for him to be happy.

he won't go to counselling.

This is so familiar, stamp. It is impossible to do right by a man like this as I think you know.

Using the thread to record stuff is a really good idea stamp!

Our marriage's narrative was that I was lucky to have STBXH, that he was an infinitely desirable, talented, amazing man. I was "baggage", a drain on him who stopped him achieving what he really wanted in life.

My XP was like this. He had a drinking problem, a porn obsession, he would not work, he would sometimes disappear for days and he cheated on me with over 50 women that I know of. That's not the worst of it either. I worked to support us both, sometimes having 3 jobs, I raised our baby who he would not send time with, I was loyal to him etc I don't know why on earth I believed him now!

XH also treated me like I was baggage that would stop him doing what he wanted/being happy at every opportunity if he let me. He was very different to XP. Very Mr Nice Guy and incredibly passive aggressive. He now has most people turned against me for leaving him because 'he is soooo nice', even my family for awhile...

The common factor is the sense of entitlement and the tool they use is trying to diminish you. It is all rooted in their own insecurity though and not a realistic judgement of who you are.

From what you've posted, op, the only thing holding you back from leaving is your children.

Your children will have you. Your stability and sound mind (as offreds have). If he tries to turn them against you, I'm sure they will be fiercely defensive of you and will look down on him for talking badly about their mother - he will be the bad guy, not you.

My mother actually did have an affair and my dad never said a bad word against her all these years. It shows what a good person he is.

Children go through stages I think with a parent who bad mouths. The first stage is feeling very conflicted, then making an assessment about what they believe, feeling bad about it and then coming to terms with things.

My littlest ones are in the feeling conflicted stage. My biggest ones the eldest has fully come to terms with it, the next one is feeling bad about it. It takes time.

Childhood is about learning, unfortunately this is one more learning job mine have. All I am doing is reassuring them that their feelings are ok and normal, whatever they are, that I understand and that I want them to have a good relationship with their dad and I don't want them to have to choose or feel I'll be upset if they feel sad or angry or do nice things with their dad (which is what he keeps telling them - don't tell mummy because she'll be mad). It's all I can do, I believe it will workout because I have got one child through it already.

What a horrible way to live

He has wasted what you could have had. He has squandered all your good intentions. He has actually sabotaged your relationship.

The list of what you want from your life and relationship is reasonable and normal. He has massive issues and he has allowed these to grind you down until you are a shell of the person you are supposed to be. How sad that by his ridiculous notions he has driven you away.

You need to be free of this. And yes, it will bring it's difficulties, but you will be that much stronger and able to manage them.

Very best of luck

Also, he sounds like he has a very guilty conscience.

This is the first time I've ever posted in Relationships, but I felt compelled. I can feel your tiredness coming through in every word that you write OP, and the list you wrote of the things you want to be able to do made me cry. You sound utterly exhausted.

I truly wish you the strength and clarity to finally understand that you can't change him; and to realise that you have one life, ONE! Please please please don't spend that one life offering endless platitudes and reassurance to someone on whom they are wasted.

I couldn't not add to the chorus.

Your whole being sounds strangled. Like he has his hands squeezing your whole life. You are being tortured.

I'm attending a course and almost tearing up at the back of the classroom reading this thread. :(

i appreciate the responses so much. i really do. i come back and read here a few times a day at least.

i have had no opportunity to get any kind of feedback from anyone but him about our relationship problems... which is why i so badly need to hear from others now. i am using everyone's observations to carefully comb through all my memories and assumptions in order to remake a true history of our relationship in my head.

a day or so ago i typed out a whole list of things i was going to do... but i realised that i hadn't remade the story yet ... so i was planning based on things that i needed to question and let go of. like, "i will write him a letter with an ultimatum"... no... we've crossed the rubicon. there is no ultimatum to make. my "demands" (which honestly is too strong a word when you look at what i want) are not even unusual enough to put into an ultimatum. that it has got this far shows that it has gone too far already.

i've heard myself say before to friends, "you can't beg someone to treat you with basic respect - some things just need to be in place without you asking" and this is the same thing.

i have not spoken to my husband at all unless it is necessary - i've been pleasant and polite but he knows something is very wrong.

he may eventually confront me (or he may not, sometimes he gives silent treatment for a day or two - but he'll do silent treatment without the pleasantries and politeness usually!) and i will probably have to say something. i hope i will have been able to get some legal advice by then. if not, i will probably just say "i am just taking some time to think. i think you need that time too." and leave it at that.

my plan is to avoid any kind of emotional conversation. it will hurt him/rile him up, and won't help either of us, so there's no point making it worse by hashing something out. in any case there is nothing i can say. i can't participate in discussions about things that have nothing to do with me and over which i have zero control.

i would have written the letter and hashed it out with him by now, and would likely be giving him another chance, had i not had all your responses to read. thank you all x

OP, it's so wonderful to hear you sounding so calm and so strong. You are going from strength to strength. If things get difficult remember we are 100% behind you. You are going to do this!

op, you sound amazing

thestamp I also had no-one to get any feedback from except STBXH. He made sure of it, he'd managed to isolate me as effectively as your husband has you.
I felt so, so disloyal when I started to look for help. I'd been conditioned that way of course. But when I did start to talk to people about my marriage, on MN and to very carefully selected people in RL, it was like light pouring into a dark cave. It brought perspective. People's shocked responses were a real eye-opener.

Now as I build my new life I often feel like I have actually lived in a dark cave. I'm learning again to live. To make choices freely, not influenced by fear and someone else's unreasonable demands.

I hope you stay on this journey of discovery. I'm thinking your husband was drawn to you for your intelligence, kindness and social skills. Some people are drawn to what they feel is missing in themselves, then vampirically drain the other person, destroying what they desire and envy.

I know that sounds dramatic but it isn't. We are here for you.

I am not feeling strong or amazing but sad, small and resigned. I know that I am actually strong. It's just going to take a while to feel that way in my heart.

It is true, he was drawn to me because I have things he doesn't. He has wonderful qualities that I admire. But he has gone too far for too long. It's really sad that it's come to this. I feel very betrayed and drained. It is vampirism for sure. :(

I do also feel disloyal and am scared that I will fall into believing again that I am just causing trouble by getting support. But I'm holding on to the truth that I am allowed to discuss my own problems on my own terms.

Glad you're posting again OP. You sound very strong to me, even if you don't feel it just yet.

You are very strong thestamp to have survived over 10 years of this. I know you feel small and sad, that's how your husband feels most comfortable with you.

It's no weakness in you that "got" you in this situation, but rather your strengths. Your kindness and empathy, your love and patience. Good qualities, but he took advantage of them for his benefit. Not for yours.

Find your truth about you and your life. Hold onto that. Find a way out to live life on your terms. Be loyal to yourself.

I lived like you are for 2 precious decades of my one and only life. Don't do what I did, don't hold on, enduring, blaming yourself.

Posting from the opposite side here I suppose as someone who is the controlling jealous one. I wholeheartedly believe it's virtually impossible for someone with such severe issues to change

Your DP won't change OP and you are better off without him.

i am not going to hold on. i know i have to move on. it might take me a little while to move my feet in the right direction but it's a forgone conclusion. now i just have to struggle through the treacle of disentangling our lives.

he can be very reasonable sometimes, even in very difficult situations, so hopefully he will come to the party and do right by me. and if he doesn't i can do it on my own. just have to keep moving.

Runningoutofnamesagain thanks for posting. it helps to hear something from the other side of this. i believe he is only doing his best and i am very sorry for him but i also believe that it's cruel to expect anyone to change so fundamentally (and that cuts both ways).

that's what it comes down to really. he has tried to change, and can't. i have tried to change, and can't. we are only going to find ourselves in this same space over and over... we will be that 50+ retired couple travelling through Europe who spends 2 out of every 3 days with her crying or placating and him berating or stonewalling, while the scenery goes past and we miss it all. i will be the one who looks at photographs of us at Machu Picchu and remembering that i spent the day unable to keep food down because he was angry with me that whole week. i will be the woman who runs down the street after her dh crying and apologising for talking to a new person in the nursing home dining hall when i am 85. i just can't do it. the jealousy has ruined so much. i don't believe he understands how much it has ruined for me. i think he thinks he only hurts himself.

so we have to part ways for both our sanity. i hope he doesn't fight me too hard. because even though i have sympathy for him, i am made of iron and won't back down so it will only hurt him.

maybe he can find somebody else who is better suited to him. maybe by losing his marriage he will find some space to change within himself, for himself. that would be wonderful for him.

i am going to work hard not to blame anybody but simply to move on with hope for the future.

have been feeling very nauseated all day and can't eat or even really drink much. trying to keep on top of it because i know this is how i get when i'm really stressed and upset, and it doesn't help at all, because i end up losing weight and then catching every bug going. don't need that.

dreading going home. only thing that's nice about it is being with the dc. whenever i am so sad all i want to do is get in the shower... which might precipitate a confrontation... which i know i can't avoid but i just don't want it right now.

Rozalia i think we probably have lived the same things and i really appreciate your posts

i appreciate everyone else's too. i mean that very sincerely. this thread is a lifeline for me.

So glad we are helping thestamp. I think we have lived the same things too. I read your posts and know exactly what you're describing and what it's like to live it. Hell.

You'll get there. Believe me, if I could, you will. I was so broken down I don't know how I functioned. I was deeply depressed for years.

But I found the inner strength I needed to end the marriage. I'm so glad I did, so happy and fulfilled now. My life is interesting, full of new friends, a great job ( I wasn't 'allowed' to work. You know how that goes, you give in eventually) and peace of mind.

just told a friend.
she is going to find a solicitor for me to speak to.

she says she is extremely shocked and had no idea what was going on, that i always spoke so highly of him and never showed my hand for the 6 years i've known her. at first she asked whether i had thought of couples counselling. then i explained a little more and she agreed that there is no hope and that we have to separate.

she said she would find somewhere for me to live and that she and i could find a flat together if i wanted to.

i'm very scared and shaken that i have told someone irl and that the wheels are turning. have just been sick due to nerves. now have to go home and face family. face very swollen from crying, feeling awful. very relieved to have told her though. lots of emotions.

Well done for telling a friend. It must have taken a lot of courage. Maybe you're feeling upset and shaky because telling her makes it feel more real? But you've taken a really big, important, positive step.

Hope you can quietly go to bed when you get home. Would it help to take a shower or bath?

PS it sounds like your friend is being very supportive - I'm really glad x

Thank you emma. I am in a different time zone to uk so came home to a house full of people at my 5pm, luckily had my makeup bag with me so was able to camouflage the bright red nose and cheeks of the sobbing woman. Had a shower with my little one and held him a lot. Dh out so no grief thankfully.

Unfortunately dh did confront me just now and tried to get me to talk to him. I didn't budge. He knows something is very wrong and I think is panicking a bit. I feel for him but there's nothing to say right now. He told me he missed me but was also angry with me and that that was hard for him. I said I was sorry to hear that. Not sure what else I could say really. He is expecting me to rush to his aid with apologies and assurances but I'm afraid that time is past. He eventually left the room after almost an hour of us sitting in silence. Unfortunately he also said he would come and try to talk to me again tomorrow night and hopefully I would feel up to it then... will have to think of adequate way to get out of that conversation without causing a blowup. Not ready for that right now.

I will be talking to my boss tomorrow. Boss is an enforcer type who also has legal background so may be interesting. Will probably also have to tell a couple of colleagues who I work closely with. Scared/embarrassed but they are among my only friends so have to let them know in case things suddenly escalate and I have to call in reinforcements. Feeling really embarrassed and ashamed though. Feel like I am having to announce to the world that my dh thinks I'm a whore :(