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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

aibu? i'm just so tired (v v long)

236 replies

thestamp · 26/10/2015 18:42

my husband has a few complaints about me, and has for years.

some of them are probably founded. others may be blown out of proportion. all of them are based on me and my very real strengths and weaknesses... things i have worked on for years but that can only be changed so much.

i love him and want it to work but he is just so unhappy and i feel like no matter what he always will be.

we have been together for over 10 years now, from when i was a teenager. back then i was gobby and immature and generally flirty and not a particularly amazing gf - but i always loved him and was devoted to him in my own silly teenage way. and i never cheated on him, hand on heart - but a few times, he very much thought that i did.

we were really tempestuous but we learned a lot in the early years and i thought we had a really good thing. we got married in our mid 20s. we have so many good times. we have wonderful dcs. we think the same way about money, managed to build up great careers, etc. etc. and have a great sex life.

but every few months, no matter what, it will come up again that he thinks i am going to "humiliate" him - cheat on him, gossip maliciously about him, something like that. embarrass him, disrespect him.

he says that it is because i have regularly (a few times a year) humiliated him, including the time he thought that i had cheated on him, 8 years ago. (i stayed on at a bar, without him, until closing time with one of his friends - was v drunk and was having one of those philosophical convos that seemed v important at the time. it was stupid and i didn't so much as kiss the boy. and i was 21, so also an idiot. dh seems 50% sure that i actually cheated on him with this boy)

other much more recent example: we were out with my work mates and he and another person were talking to me at once, one in each ear, not realising they were talking over each other, so i put my hands up and snapped loudly (pretty rudely i think) that i couldn't hear because everyone was talking to me ("aaagh stop it everyone is talking to me at once!!"). dh took this as me humiliating him and trying to embarrass/dismiss him in front of my friends, as a sign of my basic disrespect for him. i see it as me being impulsively rude, not thinking before i reacted, which i apologised for. this happened almost a year ago now but has been regularly brought up as a reason for him feeling down about our relationship. he will now not socialise with me when i am with my work mates.

(note, i realise alcohol was involved in both of these instances! in response, i rarely have more than 2 drinks when out with my dh because i recognise the trigger for my rudeness/thoughtlessness.)

there are assorted other instances that, to him, are a huge pile of things that add up to a big, bad feeling that he can never trust me.

i can see where he is coming from, to an extent. i would be hurt if my dh did and said hurtful things to me on nights out. at the same time, i know that i have never cheated on him and that my life pretty much revolves around him. i speak highly of him to others. i rarely if ever moan about him to friends (which is unusual in my group of friends!). i keep so much to myself because i want to do right by him.

whenever i say something like "i know that you feel this way but my rudeness is a reflection of my character flaws - i can be impulsive, snappy, rude, inconsiderate - not a reflection on my feelings for you" he will answer something like "but if you really respected me you would never treat me that way". to which i respond "but everyone says and does stupid things to their partner sometimes! it's part of life".

which he disagrees with. tbf he rarely upsets me. he is generally a stellar husband. really. the bad news is that when i do confront him about something, it WILL end up with him basically saying that he's done it because he has been affected by my long term disrespect for him. so i almost always end up apologising, even when it's me that was wanting an apology from him to start with. that part really tires me out.

i am so tired of being the bad guy. 10 years of being the bad guy is really wearing me down.

i can see where he is coming from but i am starting to ask myself, why did he marry me when he is so unhappy with me? he has said himself that he never trusted me so why even propose? why has he bought a house with me, started a business with me, had children with me, when he can't trust me? i have asked him and he has basically said "well i love you" and in less happy moments "well i just followed along with what you wanted".

sigh.

what does one do in this situation?

i was his first serious gf and i do think that he thinks there are women out there who are much more respectful and loving than me. from my perspective, i think he has got a good wife in me and i'm not actually sure he could find someone else who would try so hard to do right by him. aibu to think that?

of course i do stupid, really thoughtless things sometimes - things that can seem cruel even though they're not intended in that way - a few times a year say. aibu to think everyone does?

i tend to be a leader, he tends to follow me. this has led to many happy things for him but i feel he hasn't always been true to himself. but now, i have this dread that he actually SHOULD leave me, that he actually wants to, but never will because he struggles to take decisive action.

i just feel so so tired thinking about another 50+ years married to someone who is offended by things that i can't change. i want desperately for him to be happy.

he won't go to counselling.

OP posts:
thestamp · 31/10/2015 18:07

I don't feel I am doing well I feel completely devastated. Keep crying in front of dc who at least are too small to really notice much. Still in my pyjamas trying to work out how I am going to last the weekend. I am so low. He is home very soon for lunch and I know I will feel even worse when he is here/leaves again.

I'm a good person and I don't understand why this has happened to me. I don't understand why so many people have let me down when I have always been so good to them. Can't stop crying.

OP posts:
FantasticButtocks · 31/10/2015 18:09

from what you've written, you already know this stuff but here's a description of the karpman triangle which might be useful.

FantasticButtocks · 31/10/2015 18:11

Sorry, cross posted. Sorry you're feeling so sad Thanks But your thinking is clear, which will help. But the pain is something unavoidable I'm afraid. But it's not permanent.

RandomMess · 31/10/2015 22:27

You know it's okay to feel completely devastated, you have put EVERYTHING into making this work but he didn't and therefore it's failed. That is not your fault, or responsibility.

Grieve as much as you need to, look after yourself above him at all times.

Lean on your colleagues who do understand and are offering help.

Huge hugs x

thestamp · 02/11/2015 17:00

weekend was very hard. he cried the whole weekend and was constantly looking at me for reassurance. to be expected since that has been my job for years and years - to make him feel ok. i just kept leaving rooms as he entered them while trying to be normal for the dc.

on sat night i snapped and told him to stop looking over at me in that way, that i am in pain too and it just makes me angry that he is trying to lean on me. he kind of swallowed and agreed and said he was sorry because he realised he had caused me this kind of pain for a long time. it is true - i spent many many days and nights sobbing on my own because he would get annoyed or even angry if i cried in front of him (only if i was crying due to pain he had caused - if i was crying about something else he'd be very supportive!).

he has booked himself in to see a counsellor. he asked if i would come with him. i said that i would, but that i would have nothing to do with organising it. i am ambivalent about counselling because a) i know it will not "help" (him or me) unless he accepts that the marriage is over and b) i am tired and almost contemptuous of his pain. i have felt as much if not more, and i didn't have anyone to help me with it.

obv he is a changed man at home, up with the sparrows making breakfast for the dcs when before i would have to drag him out of bed, grumbling and annoyed, moments before my bus went past the house.

he probably doesn't realise that this fucks me off hugely because i see it as, i have literally had to not just come to the end of my tether, but let go of the fucking tether, and only THEN does he treat me with kindness or thoughtfulness. but let's not forget I have been the one who has been criticised for 10 y for being "disrespectful" and "thoughtless".

i am angry as hell as of sat night, and sad with it too. horrible feeling. grief feeling, i think. swollen face from crying, look ancient, feel like shit, am at work and trying to not attract pitiful glances... colleagues/boss buying me little things and trying to cheer me up/be supportive without making me cry and it's so kind of them but i also just wish it didn't have to be this way and that my dh was just that, dear, that he loved me enough not to do this to me.

OP posts:
NameChange30 · 02/11/2015 17:08

He knows he's losing you which he's why he's putting on this act. The heartbroken, constant crying act is manipulative, he's trying to make you feel guilty and stay. The domestic god act is supposed to make you believe he can change. None of it will last long.

Couple's counselling is not recommended in cases of abuse. It's very likely he will try to get the counsellor on his side, and if he succeeds it will be a disaster. If you don't want to go, you don't have to go. You've had enough and that's ok.

RandomMess · 02/11/2015 17:14

If (and only if) you go the first session you have to promise us that you ask to speak first and you tell the counsellor "after years of being accused of being a whore, treating me with disrespect, unkindness and not pulling his weight I have had enough and it is over, that is all I have to say so I'm leaving now"

I'm glad you got angry, I'm glad that you can see that his is perfectly able to pull his weight but he has chosen not to for 10 very long years.

KOKO Flowers

NameChange30 · 02/11/2015 17:22

Remember that there's a cycle, OP, and you've decided to break it. He's made promises in the past, he's improved his behaviour for a brief time, but he has always gone back to being jealous, controlling and abusive. Keep reminding yourself of that and re-reading this thread.

thestamp · 02/11/2015 18:00

i know couples counselling is a bad idea and have told him i am not interested in it. i will go along to a few of this individual counselling sessions in order to clearly inform the counsellor that i am not interested in couples counselling - that this needs to be individual counselling for dh only.

he will be devastated by that, but he does need professional help for the sake of the dc so i feel that i need to make my position very clear to his counsellor (similar to what you're saying RandomMess), so that the red herring of "marriage counselling"/hope of reconciliation doesn't impede his treatment / us creating a coparent relationship. he needs to accept that this the end, as soon as possible, for all our sakes.

am very aware that this may be all for naught, that he may fuck up his counselling out of anger or spite or denial, no matter what i do, but i would like to know that i did all i could for the dc and that ALL cards are on the table from my side.

chatted to my friend again today. she agreed that we need to make plans to get me out of the house a few evenings a week because i am going to go mad being stuck there all the time. i have no social calendar because i haven't been allowed to maintain one... will be a huge relief to be around other people who actually like me.

it's funny...
i know that i am charming, funny, thoughtful, empathetic, intelligent and beautiful. many people (of both sexes) love to spend time with me.
and i would have been happy to stay at home all the time with someone who at least made me feel cherished.

jesus just draw me a fucking bath once a month. make me a cup of tea. cuddle me on the couch instead of leaving me there alone after the dc bedtime while you watch youtube videos. or, shock horror, put the dc to bed! i asked for so little and it would have meant so much.

i really got a shitty deal out of him. in return for 10 years of being isolated from friends, anticipating his every need, planning his life and soothing his brow, i got... sex? sometimes he would buy me chocolate, which i don't actually like that much, but he likes it? what else... sometimes he would take care of the dcs? begrudgingly, mind...

i could get sex quite easily. for free. jesus i could have had someone take care of ME, and all I would have had to do in return is sleep with them! and i can buy my own fucking chocolate (not that i would). and i can pay a babysitter.

i know i'm rambling.
i'm really angry with myself for believing that this was ok.

the sad part is that i think it would have been ok if he actually trusted me, if he was actually honest with me, if we had had the basics in place as i assumed we did. i realise now how i always tried so hard to be painstakingly honest (but kind) with him, naively believing that this would build up his trust. and all it did was give him more ammunition against me.

the reason i am so trusting is because i am a good person who has nothing to hide. meantime, he just used my trust, twisted it back on me to hurt me.

i keep hearing that sylvia plath poem in my head.

A man in black with a Meinkampf look
And a love of the rack and the screw.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 02/11/2015 18:03

Sad you did nothing KOKO Flowers

RandomMess · 02/11/2015 18:04

nothing WRONG!!!

thestamp · 02/11/2015 19:23

i know i have acted in good faith.

i am galled by the unfairness of it all - that's what it comes down to, i think.

also, i would like to go out drinking and shagging now, out of pure frustration. but i won't. because responsibilities. fml

OP posts:
ifyouregoingthroughhell · 02/11/2015 19:36

I could have written your last post OP.
As soon as he feels secure again, the begging and crying will stop. Then the controlling starts again. The swapping between begging and controlling will get shorter and shorter until they start a sentence crying and end it shouting. And so we go round and round.....
Genuine tears of grief and sorrow are done alone, behind closed doors or under the duvet. Like yours.

thestamp · 02/11/2015 20:25

Genuine tears of grief and sorrow are done alone, behind closed doors or under the duvet.

you're 100% right. you've quantified my annoyance, really. all this sobbing in front of me is targeted to bend me to his will.

i know he thinks he is acting honestly. he believes in his own epiphany.

but, i also know that as you say, the moment he feels "we" are out of the woods, the controlling will start all over again. and... again he will believe in his own perception that his controlling behaviour is reasonable and logical.

OP posts:
lazycoo · 02/11/2015 21:36

Just wanted to add my support stamp. I'm amazed at your emotional intelligence, your ability to articulate yourself so well and your strength. I was in an EA relationship once and I've never managed to achieve your level of assessment on it, which has I think prevented me from fully recovering.

thestamp · 02/11/2015 21:45

i would like to make a list of the things i am going to do.

  1. have nursery move youngest dc off naps so i am less chained to bedtime (getting later and later because dc is only napping at nursery and has actually outgrown it; dh not available to help most evenings)

once that is done it will make me less reliant on dh for childcare.
then

  1. gym - mondays and wednesdays
  2. harass friend into doing pub trivia on tuesdays... love it, dh would never go or help me with childcare so i could go
  3. social dance lesson - fridays (again, dh knows i wanted to try but had left it up to me too juggle the schedule, find the babysitter, and so on)
  4. book lessons for a sport i have wanted to try for ages but dh never lifted a finger to arrange it - sundays
  5. prepack all my weekday meals and save my money for socialising and sport (two things i love but hardly do because dh)
OP posts:
thestamp · 02/11/2015 22:18

lazycoo Wine for both of us.

OP posts:
thestamp · 03/11/2015 16:17

had a brief chat last night. set new expectations for this weekend - that i would be going out in order to break some of the atmosphere in the house and recharge etc, and that he and i could work together for childcare coverage.

some tears at the end (brief) and a quick hug. he tried a few times to get me to be his therapist and i just replied with "yes, i know it's rough for both of us" and "we're both feeling shit, it's hard because we can't comfort each other" and then left it at that.

then had some cursory conversations about the dc/house bits.

bit worried because i feel i am still "handling" him. we had this chat because i could sense the tone in the house sliding into uncomfortable territory and i wanted to take control (as i always do). and i did take control, and am once again shepherding us through the valley of the shadow of death (as it were), albeit with the lightest touch i can manage.

he has booked in with a counsellor. he has not asked me to come along (yet? don't know what his plans are and won't ask).

had chat with friend this morning and shared my worries re "handling" him. she heard me out and just said "don't worry about doing it the 'right' way, just get through it as safely and quickly as you can" so i will go with that.

will follow up with my boss this week about the solicitor appt. not sure what he has arranged.

realised last night that i have lost nothing by ceasing this rs. nothing at all. i come back from work energised because i am around people who like me all day... used to come home and dump all that energy down a black hole and then have to start again in the morning. but now... i come in to work feeling considerably more refreshed and recharged than i did before.

it's him who's lost so much.

OP posts:
NameChange30 · 03/11/2015 16:26

"had chat with friend this morning and shared my worries re "handling" him. she heard me out and just said "don't worry about doing it the 'right' way, just get through it as safely and quickly as you can" so i will go with that."

Great advice from your friend, she's a good'un Smile

I'm a bit confused about why your boss is organising the solicitor appt for you - could he pass on their details and let you organise it yourself? I'm just thinking it's a shame you can't take control of that the same way you're taking care of everything else so brilliantly.

thestamp · 03/11/2015 16:34

i think my boss wants to make sure i don't pay for it, basically. and that he can drive me there, drop me off at my friend's afterwards in case i need to cry, etc. it's just his way. he is one of those people who is always taking care of everyone to the nth degree. (sounds familiar??)

however, when i said i'd "follow up" it was really in the vein that you imply - i will ask for the details i need and move forward a bit quicker. as this thread has demonstrated i am at my best when in control of things!

OP posts:
NameChange30 · 03/11/2015 16:38

Ah yes I see. Very kind and well meaning to want to take care of you - but actually you need support to stand on your own two feet, I think.

RandomMess · 03/11/2015 16:55

Perhaps, as well, your boss wants to ensure that you go through with it all!

Completely agree with your friend, put yourself first x

Leeza2 · 03/11/2015 17:20

Such an inspiring post, rozalia . You are an example of MN at its best - wonderful women paying forward the help and support they have received themselves Flowers

Offred · 05/11/2015 15:05

How's things stamp? X

Rozalia0 · 05/11/2015 19:37

Just want to tell you my experience of couple counselling and individual counselling, with a husband very like yours.

We had couple counselling when we had bee married about five years. He was already very abusive, but with my background, from my earliest years, I couldn't really see or understand what was happening. He charmed the counsellor totally, she was completely won over by him. They both bullied me. I tried my best to stand up for myself but I was attacked on all sides. She was totally unprofessional, even saying in front of him "of course he doesn't hit you anymore?".

I was in fact, covered with bruises from an attack the night before, but far too afraid to say anything. Stupid bitch, she put me in danger. Relate, too.

Years later we tried couple counselling again. It didn't go well, because, I later found out, my husband had told her that he was cheating on me. She refused to keep seeing us and I didn't know why!

Have to go will post again soon.