aibu? i'm just so tired (v v long)

[thestamp]

my husband has a few complaints about me, and has for years.

some of them are probably founded. others may be blown out of proportion. all of them are based on me and my very real strengths and weaknesses... things i have worked on for years but that can only be changed so much.

i love him and want it to work but he is just so unhappy and i feel like no matter what he always will be.

we have been together for over 10 years now, from when i was a teenager. back then i was gobby and immature and generally flirty and not a particularly amazing gf - but i always loved him and was devoted to him in my own silly teenage way. and i never cheated on him, hand on heart - but a few times, he very much thought that i did.

we were really tempestuous but we learned a lot in the early years and i thought we had a really good thing. we got married in our mid 20s. we have so many good times. we have wonderful dcs. we think the same way about money, managed to build up great careers, etc. etc. and have a great sex life.

but every few months, no matter what, it will come up again that he thinks i am going to "humiliate" him - cheat on him, gossip maliciously about him, something like that. embarrass him, disrespect him.

he says that it is because i have regularly (a few times a year) humiliated him, including the time he thought that i had cheated on him, 8 years ago. (i stayed on at a bar, without him, until closing time with one of his friends - was v drunk and was having one of those philosophical convos that seemed v important at the time. it was stupid and i didn't so much as kiss the boy. and i was 21, so also an idiot. dh seems 50% sure that i actually cheated on him with this boy)

other much more recent example: we were out with my work mates and he and another person were talking to me at once, one in each ear, not realising they were talking over each other, so i put my hands up and snapped loudly (pretty rudely i think) that i couldn't hear because everyone was talking to me ("aaagh stop it everyone is talking to me at once!!"). dh took this as me humiliating him and trying to embarrass/dismiss him in front of my friends, as a sign of my basic disrespect for him. i see it as me being impulsively rude, not thinking before i reacted, which i apologised for. this happened almost a year ago now but has been regularly brought up as a reason for him feeling down about our relationship. he will now not socialise with me when i am with my work mates.

(note, i realise alcohol was involved in both of these instances! in response, i rarely have more than 2 drinks when out with my dh because i recognise the trigger for my rudeness/thoughtlessness.)

there are assorted other instances that, to him, are a huge pile of things that add up to a big, bad feeling that he can never trust me.

i can see where he is coming from, to an extent. i would be hurt if my dh did and said hurtful things to me on nights out. at the same time, i know that i have never cheated on him and that my life pretty much revolves around him. i speak highly of him to others. i rarely if ever moan about him to friends (which is unusual in my group of friends!). i keep so much to myself because i want to do right by him.

whenever i say something like "i know that you feel this way but my rudeness is a reflection of my character flaws - i can be impulsive, snappy, rude, inconsiderate - not a reflection on my feelings for you" he will answer something like "but if you really respected me you would never treat me that way". to which i respond "but everyone says and does stupid things to their partner sometimes! it's part of life".

which he disagrees with. tbf he rarely upsets me. he is generally a stellar husband. really. the bad news is that when i do confront him about something, it WILL end up with him basically saying that he's done it because he has been affected by my long term disrespect for him. so i almost always end up apologising, even when it's me that was wanting an apology from him to start with. that part really tires me out.

i am so tired of being the bad guy. 10 years of being the bad guy is really wearing me down.

i can see where he is coming from but i am starting to ask myself, why did he marry me when he is so unhappy with me? he has said himself that he never trusted me so why even propose? why has he bought a house with me, started a business with me, had children with me, when he can't trust me? i have asked him and he has basically said "well i love you" and in less happy moments "well i just followed along with what you wanted".

sigh.

what does one do in this situation?

i was his first serious gf and i do think that he thinks there are women out there who are much more respectful and loving than me. from my perspective, i think he has got a good wife in me and i'm not actually sure he could find someone else who would try so hard to do right by him. aibu to think that?

of course i do stupid, really thoughtless things sometimes - things that can seem cruel even though they're not intended in that way - a few times a year say. aibu to think everyone does?

i tend to be a leader, he tends to follow me. this has led to many happy things for him but i feel he hasn't always been true to himself. but now, i have this dread that he actually SHOULD leave me, that he actually wants to, but never will because he struggles to take decisive action.

i just feel so so tired thinking about another 50+ years married to someone who is offended by things that i can't change. i want desperately for him to be happy.

he won't go to counselling.

I recognise that they are people in their own right and independent of me and that they need to be able to relate to their dads in their own ways. They need skills for doing that from me. They shouldn't be totally protected from who their fathers are because that means they won't learn skills for dealing with it. It's sad though. I wish it was different for them. It is hard not to feel terrible guilt for inflicting their fathers on them.

thank you for replying.
trying not to cry at work
mess

to you both (OP and offred)
You are both very brave, strong women, albeit at slightly different stages, and I respect you for all that you do for your children in these difficult circumstances.

It's a sad thing. A really sad one.

The thing is there is a lot of potential for you to be happy in the end. To be free to be who you are and to be happy alone or meet someone who isn't so terribly insecure.

It is difficult splitting up but I have never regretted either split. Not for a second. Weirdly I did the exact same thing as you with my marriage - wrote on MN, was given loads of advice (I ignored it and decided to give the marriage a good go) then came back a year later and realised everything was exactly the same. I told XH I wanted to split up less than one month later.

Difficulties with the DC, housing, nastiness etc included I am still 100x happier than I was and so are the DC. I didn't really realise how they were being affected until we actually split tbh.

And with my XH he is still insecure and he is now projecting this onto the DC but he is also loving and committed to them and I'm sure we'll all get through it.

With XP things have been rockier but 10 years on things are relatively settled. He's not been too involved but he cares deeply, just has his own issues.

My two sets of two kids are dealing with different issues! BUT we are all fine, life is normal, we all get sad sometimes but we are happy more often than we are sad which was not the case when we were in either relationship.

Living with it has been hard! Hasn't it?

You are clearly intelligent and competent and I love that you have done a spreadsheet ( sorry!). I think you are being wasted by being with him. You must be putting so much of yourself into just managing your existence day to day, it's a crying shame!

I'm a few months out of a marriage like yours, OP. After nearly 20 years of exhausting myself trying to please the Unpleasable and crushing my true personality, I have blossomed in these 8 months.

AF is so right. I think in a relationship like this you can get so caught up analysing and understanding the whys that it acts as a distraction from the real truth. Which is that you should get out.

At the risk of bragging, since he's been gone I shine. Really. It's like a bloody miracle. All that energy that went into surviving, managing and understanding STBXH now goes into living. It's wonderful. Like the sun came out again.

Hi Stamp

I think when you've been on this carousel for so long your mind can get dizzy and muddled, but I think also at some point the part of you that's been repressed all these years is fighting to get through.

Somewhere the bit of you that's never been seen or heard is flickering like a pilot light in the dark, I think
The lid is off Pandora's box in the terms of your true self, this might be why your struggling.
Your need to help and understand him means you don't have to look inside and really hear and help yourself, but sometimes the self will take things in to its own hands and try and break free.

Your not his keeper or his therapist, there's a great strategy you learn in AA it's the three C's

You did not Cause this
You can not Control this
You cannot Cure this

Your true self or,unconscious will not allow you to deny it for much longer, it's gonna fight you tooth and nail to come through. I suggest you try and accept this as a truth, and work towards your own survival your own needs and future. Your shackles are loosening think of it as a emerging from a cocoon from a long sleep, your dh needs to find his own truth but that's his journey not yours.

It's not for you to heal him nor take his punishment for him

i think what's hard is that i had started to shine. when we had it all out last year and he apologised for being jealous and said he wouldn't be anymore and would just support me etc.

i was so happy when he seemed to change. felt so free. really came into myself for a few precious months.

now i look back and see all the little signs of jealousy creep back over time. i really wanted to believe him when he said he was dealing with it but it was constantly leaking into my consciousness, the little things he would do or say. for the last 6-8 months at least, things have been slowly going down the shitter in terms of jealousy.

and now i feel like by shining, i have broken what we had. i know intellectually that that's irrational. but it still hurts.

it hurts to think that he wants me to be less happy and less free, so that he can feel better. what an awful thing.

You haven't broken him. He's just broken. You've failed to fix him but that was always going to happen because only he can really fix himself.

it hurts to think that he wants me to be less happy and less free, so that he can feel better. what an awful thing.

Yeah, that's the bit I really struggle with too, that they get something out of keeping you down, not allowing you to be the person they professed to love and to want to spend the rest of their life with!

I found Controlling People by Patricia Evans went some way to explaining why they do this.

Rereading thus thread and just crying so much. So sad. Still haven't spoken to dh and I know he's very low too. Dcs at least are perfectly happy. Dh is being very loVing to them. I have a lot of fear around my children due to the abuse I suffered so it may be that my fears about him taking things out on them are not rational... we'll see I guess. Hopefully I am just being paranoid about that.

I'm so sad to think about everything we have lost because of something that never even happened. I never did him wrong and never would, and yet I am suffering so much for it. Very unfair.

We could be so happy but he just won't let us be.

I hate crying before bed because I will wake up wth swollen eyes and feel shit all day. Fuck

Thank you to everyone who has replied to me. I know it seems like I am mostly talking to myself but you have all helped me x I'm just too overwhelmed to reply to everyone properly if I'm honest.

Yes, it is the dark before the dawn.

This is the time things seem most overwhelming and difficult.

It's possibly very idealistic but I do genuinely believe that there is a way to solve every problem, it is just a matter of finding it. Sometimes it's about giving up on things and finding a new way, I think that's the case here, it is completely understandable that that would be overwhelming.

There is no pressure to have it all sorted straight away. I had to live in my xh's house for 18m after we separated, I've been in my own house for 6 months now. It all seemed impossible at one stage but it wasn't, I've found a way.

I'm confident you will too.

"I'm so sad to think about everything we have lost because of something that never even happened."

Actually, I think you have lost a happy relationship because of something that did happen: his jealous, controlling and abusive treatment of you. His actions have consequences.

i am the buffer. i can keep an eye on everything. i can step in, stand up for them, be there to be brave for them.
This is your delusion. You cannot keep an eye on everything. You can't protect them. You are not always there. This will increase as they get older. I am the child of such relationship, as are many of us here. You cannot protect them better from the angry man 24/7 by turning yourself into a human shield.

By staying you are teaching your children that his behaviour is OK and normal.

The moment you leave, you teach them that his behaviour is not OK, is not normal and that normal people do not tolerate it.

When they see him on his own every other weekend they will see the clear difference between his behaviour and your behaviour. Children are young not stupid, they get older and wiser every day. Poison dripped in their ears will easily be sorted. They will see the truth with their own eyes. Any poison will hurt him more than you.

Ultimately, if he takes anything out on them, you can stop them seeing him if you take the appropriate steps.

I bet they act like they adore him. They wouldn't want him to be in a mood now would they? You've probably inadvertently taught them to do anything to stop daddy being in a mood, always keep on daddy's good side. Them loving a person who behaves very very badly indeed is not a thing to protect and maintain.

i am just writing this here so that i don't forget it

i want to be able to go out with my friends
i want to go away for girly weekends or work conferences
i want to be able to come home happy and not have to mount a defence the moment i walk through the door
i want to go on holidays where i don't have to plan every detail, and then monitor satisfaction in real time, and then take criticism afterwards for things that weren't fun or made him feel excluded or bored or disrespectful to him
i want my partner to care how i feel when we are out, or with other people
i want to go to work and come home and not feel i need to defend myself for wanting a shower, or for being in an hour later than i'd planned
i want to be able to share what a friend has talked to me about without being accused of being emotionally over involved with them - without the implication that i am being inappropriate with friends just by listening to them talk
i want to be able to talk to my friends about my own problems (including relationship problems) without being subject to criticism that i am being disrespectful of our relationship
i want to be able to socialise freely without having to check on my partner - i need to know that if my partner needs me when we are with other people, he will come and find me, and use his words (not a filthy look or a sulk) to tell me what he needs

just today i got word that i need to go to an offsite location with a male colleague and i have spent the morning feeling sweaty about it. this is completely fucking ridiculous.

Good list.

It seems to me that it's far worse than your opening post and much much worse than you've been telling yourself for the last umpteen years.

Your demands are not excessive; all you want is a loving and healthy relationship which enhances your own and partner's lives, but you're not going to get it with your current h.

As you say, it is 'completely fucking ridiculous' that he's effectively controlling you from a remote location. The question is how much more of his nonsense are you prepared to put up with?

The closer I looked at my relationship, the worse I discovered it was. A couple of years ago, I managed to sneak away from his endless monitoring of me, to see a solicitor.

I vividly remember the sense of freedom as I walked along a street that he didn't know about. I had a sense of lightness that I'd totally forgotten. I'd got so used to having to justify every fucking thing I did, said, thought, wore, ate, watched, read. EVERYTHING!

When I read your posts OP, I know exactly what you're going through. Please get out. I only had the support of MN in the last two years, but it helped me get away. Now I always have that sense of freedom. You're being horribly abused and, just like my STBXH, your husband has somehow persuaded you that you are to blame for the situation and are also responsible for his "healing".

It's actually a control mechanism.

Again just writing this here so I don't forget.

I wrote him a letter, on the back of a photograph of us, when we had been together less than a year. Basically telling him that I knew I was a disappointment to him. And that i was sorry and would try harder

This narrative has been in place from the very beginning.

I wish that when I was younger I could have understood or predicted how it would all come to fruition.

Our marriage's narrative was that I was lucky to have STBXH, that he was an infinitely desirable, talented, amazing man. I was "baggage", a drain on him who stopped him achieving what he really wanted in life.

He really believed he was special and entitled to control a lesser being such as me.

A sel fulfilling prophecy; the time when you told him you would 'try harder' was the time you should have ended the relationship.

What helped me get free:

Mumsnet, I had some amazing support and advice. I could post in the middle of the night and there was always someone there.

I educated myself about abusive marriages. I read Lundy Bancroft - a real eye-opener and followed links from MN to good, informative websites.

I contacted Womens Aid, the local number, the national one was always busy. They were kind and hugely supportive and knew just what I was struggling with.

I nurtured myself. Even down to buying hand soaps and shower gels with gentle, comforting scents. I wrote in my online journal " I have to look after myself, no-one else will. This is important."

I used every ounce of resourcefulness, intelligence, experience and determination I could muster to get away and thrive. All that energy I'd been pouring into STBXH I put into me.

In just a few months my life has changed out of all recognition. I am so happy. I feel more me than I ever have done. I'd been abused for nearly 20 years, let along the bad marriage before that and the horrendous childhood. No more though.

I did it. You can. Really, you can. We're here for you OP.

Im sorry I am still using this thread to record things. Someone said here that if I changed again to address his jealously he'd only berate me for not being the soul of the party.

You know when I was at my most painfully controlled and demure and housebound, trying so hard to be what he wanted, he'd constantly complain about how unconnected and blah I was during sex, and how I never initiated, and wasn't adventurous etc. Etc.

After we had the chat about how he wanted me to stop worrying about his jealousy, and I started to shine a little bit, my sex drive suddenly went through the roof because i felt so happy and free. So the complaints about that have stopped.

Replaced by complaints that I seem obviously to be having an affair. He literally has been fretting that when I come home from work visibly aroused (ahem) that I must be fucking someone during business hours.

When all that's happened is I have been desperately horny all day... to fuck HIM that is.

Wtaf.
I'd laugh if I wasn't crying myself to sleep every night. You could. Not. Make. It. Up.