aibu? i'm just so tired (v v long)

[thestamp]

my husband has a few complaints about me, and has for years.

some of them are probably founded. others may be blown out of proportion. all of them are based on me and my very real strengths and weaknesses... things i have worked on for years but that can only be changed so much.

i love him and want it to work but he is just so unhappy and i feel like no matter what he always will be.

we have been together for over 10 years now, from when i was a teenager. back then i was gobby and immature and generally flirty and not a particularly amazing gf - but i always loved him and was devoted to him in my own silly teenage way. and i never cheated on him, hand on heart - but a few times, he very much thought that i did.

we were really tempestuous but we learned a lot in the early years and i thought we had a really good thing. we got married in our mid 20s. we have so many good times. we have wonderful dcs. we think the same way about money, managed to build up great careers, etc. etc. and have a great sex life.

but every few months, no matter what, it will come up again that he thinks i am going to "humiliate" him - cheat on him, gossip maliciously about him, something like that. embarrass him, disrespect him.

he says that it is because i have regularly (a few times a year) humiliated him, including the time he thought that i had cheated on him, 8 years ago. (i stayed on at a bar, without him, until closing time with one of his friends - was v drunk and was having one of those philosophical convos that seemed v important at the time. it was stupid and i didn't so much as kiss the boy. and i was 21, so also an idiot. dh seems 50% sure that i actually cheated on him with this boy)

other much more recent example: we were out with my work mates and he and another person were talking to me at once, one in each ear, not realising they were talking over each other, so i put my hands up and snapped loudly (pretty rudely i think) that i couldn't hear because everyone was talking to me ("aaagh stop it everyone is talking to me at once!!"). dh took this as me humiliating him and trying to embarrass/dismiss him in front of my friends, as a sign of my basic disrespect for him. i see it as me being impulsively rude, not thinking before i reacted, which i apologised for. this happened almost a year ago now but has been regularly brought up as a reason for him feeling down about our relationship. he will now not socialise with me when i am with my work mates.

(note, i realise alcohol was involved in both of these instances! in response, i rarely have more than 2 drinks when out with my dh because i recognise the trigger for my rudeness/thoughtlessness.)

there are assorted other instances that, to him, are a huge pile of things that add up to a big, bad feeling that he can never trust me.

i can see where he is coming from, to an extent. i would be hurt if my dh did and said hurtful things to me on nights out. at the same time, i know that i have never cheated on him and that my life pretty much revolves around him. i speak highly of him to others. i rarely if ever moan about him to friends (which is unusual in my group of friends!). i keep so much to myself because i want to do right by him.

whenever i say something like "i know that you feel this way but my rudeness is a reflection of my character flaws - i can be impulsive, snappy, rude, inconsiderate - not a reflection on my feelings for you" he will answer something like "but if you really respected me you would never treat me that way". to which i respond "but everyone says and does stupid things to their partner sometimes! it's part of life".

which he disagrees with. tbf he rarely upsets me. he is generally a stellar husband. really. the bad news is that when i do confront him about something, it WILL end up with him basically saying that he's done it because he has been affected by my long term disrespect for him. so i almost always end up apologising, even when it's me that was wanting an apology from him to start with. that part really tires me out.

i am so tired of being the bad guy. 10 years of being the bad guy is really wearing me down.

i can see where he is coming from but i am starting to ask myself, why did he marry me when he is so unhappy with me? he has said himself that he never trusted me so why even propose? why has he bought a house with me, started a business with me, had children with me, when he can't trust me? i have asked him and he has basically said "well i love you" and in less happy moments "well i just followed along with what you wanted".

sigh.

what does one do in this situation?

i was his first serious gf and i do think that he thinks there are women out there who are much more respectful and loving than me. from my perspective, i think he has got a good wife in me and i'm not actually sure he could find someone else who would try so hard to do right by him. aibu to think that?

of course i do stupid, really thoughtless things sometimes - things that can seem cruel even though they're not intended in that way - a few times a year say. aibu to think everyone does?

i tend to be a leader, he tends to follow me. this has led to many happy things for him but i feel he hasn't always been true to himself. but now, i have this dread that he actually SHOULD leave me, that he actually wants to, but never will because he struggles to take decisive action.

i just feel so so tired thinking about another 50+ years married to someone who is offended by things that i can't change. i want desperately for him to be happy.

he won't go to counselling.

Does it matter if there's an OW? He'd probably convince the OP that it's her fault, anyway.

if there is another woman i would really just wish them well. i just want him to be happy and to feel safe. i have no self image pinned on whether i am the only woman in his life.

this is what is so funny... i am not a jealous person at all. and never have been.

afaik he sees this as further proof that i am not trustworthy... if i "don't care" about faithfulness then it must be that i am not faithful :(

if i ever have another relationship i don't think i will ever agree to marriage or even monogamy again.

i am so tired out by being so "good" for so long, all for nothing. never again.

Oh yes, OP - it is all your fault that you are not jealous; that you don't feel the need to text or demand when he is home (ignoring that fact that normal people are like that) becasue he is SO trustworthy; that you have so much opportunity to cheat at work (!) but that he of course wouldn't think of it, even with more opportunity and means. It's your fault.

I'd do what a PP suggested, and just reclaim your life. Go out. Leave the phone at home. Meet friends whenever, whereever.

Might as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb. If he wants something to worry about, give him something. You will never appease him, ever. Not ever.

Guiltypleasures001
i want you to know that your 21:44:34 and 21:57:58 posts y day really brought a few things home to me.

i am handling him.
i do enable him.
i attempt to appease him.
i do treat him like a pet project - he is at arm's length in that way. i think he senses this and it's part of what offends him. but... i have no other way to deal with someone who i cannot trust to trust me. how can i be intimate with someone (physically and otherwise) who thinks i am basically rotten?

he is easily offended and overwhelmed by his feelings of offence, about all kinds of things not just jealousy. it has got much better over the years - you would not believe how bad it used to be, it was almost unbearable for both of us, constant arguments.

he actually has worked very hard at it and has had many conversations with me struggling to find his way through it, finding insight on his own about how he needs to change and let things go. he has put in a solid effort and we've reaped those rewards.

but the jealousy thing... it is bound up in the ease of offence... it's as if he can work on all the other instances and see he is being unreasonable, but as soon as another man is even in the frame, he loses all reason and can't see he's being irrational.

he does have insight, but not when it comes to me. he sees me through a lens that i find unbearable. i can't be involved with it anymore. i won't stand under it anymore. he has to find his own way. i can't be the nurse to someone who has injured me.

i am still formulating a plan for the next few weeks. i will write about it here because i need a dated yardstick for how i am thinking. i tend to forget details and gloss over things when we are out of the shit. and then when we're back in the shit, i can't retrace my steps. it has to stop

You are an intelligent woman. It will be the (emotional) death of you.

Let it go, all of it. You are tied in knots analysing and trying to understand.

Understand just one thing....

He is a lost cause. You know it. Let this be the last time you modify your behaviour to please him because the fact is, the goalposts are shimmering mirages that don't exist and you will spend the rest of your life trying to attain the unreachable goals he sets you if you let yourself

there is going to be plenty more analysing from me in this thread, AF. my dh has berated me for needing to talk things out for many years now... and it's only served to keep me isolated from my own thoughts.

if you read my responses here so far it will be very clear to you that i won't be modifying my behaviour and that i am fully aware of the illusory nature of the goalposts.

i'm sure you mean well but you just sound like my dh, sorry. telling me to stop thinking, and to understand things that i already understand

this sounds awful. But...it sounds like you've had enough and things are going to change. Well done, I wish you strength.

OK, fair enough. You haven't found any of my posts useful so I shall bow out and wish you luck

At is right though. I was you a few years ago. I spent hundreds of hours and pounds trying to figure xh out. To this day he's still a selfish, manipulative bell end, but fortunately for me, he's someone else's bell end.

If I could turn back time I'd have cut out all of that. If it talks like an abusive twat, and walks like an abusive twat, what else do you need to make the decision to get the hell out?

Af is right, not at..

When I read the list of emotionally abusive behaviours I could tick off 20/30 from your descriptions on here...

... more than that offred, quite a scary thread to read.

Yes, at least that. I didn't count any that I wasn't sure of.

I also think AF is right.

This seems very complicated and difficult but it is actually very simple.

In reality, your marriage is over.

It is one year since he agreed not to control you, you had doubts then and you were proved right.

This is not about your intention not to be controlled anymore. We can see that is not what you want but you have certainly had similar intentions before and things have still reverted into the same pattern because he is exploiting your humanity and your love for him.

If you don't end it it won't matter whether or not you intend to change the dynamic or not. He will prevent you from doing it because his insecurity is so great and so overwhelming there is little or nothing, not even his children, that matters more to him. This makes you vulnerable as there are likely to be many things that are more important to you than his insecurity and he will exploit these as weaknesses to get what he wants - control.

You have two options as I see it;

1. Stay with him and accept that how he is is how he actually is and you will spend your entire relationship with him in a power struggle over your right to exist. Your DC will model this relationship in their adult lives.

Or

1. Leave him and take steps to protect the DC from any poison he may drip.

I have a friend who is in a relationship like yours (but it is the woman who is chronically jealous).

It is horrendous seeing it from the outside. The way he always has to do just one more thing to reassure her, and then she will be OK. Except she never is.

His friends can see him narrowing his world, narrowing his relationships and generally becoming a lesser person to try and fit in with her expectations. And it is never enough.

I cannot explain how frustrating it is to see it going on in someone you care about.

Honestly, you need to make this decision for you. I don't say this lightly as I know it's hard, but your DC growing up with a DM too afraid of her own shadow to show them how brave and awesome she is is way worse for them than having their parents split up. (Exp talking here)

i just did an excel spreadsheet of those points... 18 apply to our rs.
fuck, that's bad.

offred, you are right in that it will always be a power struggle. i will have to constantly remind him that i am allowed to be a person in my own right. i will have to constantly explain what i meant by things that to me seem extremely obvious and non-malicious.

God it's so hard to look at it that way.

Living with it has been hard! Hasn't it?

You are clearly intelligent and competent and I love that you have done a spreadsheet ( sorry!). I think you are being wasted by being with him. You must be putting so much of yourself into just managing your existence day to day, it's a crying shame!

For the next 50 years you will have to constantly remind him that i am allowed to be a person in my own right. i will have to constantly explain what i meant by things that to me seem extremely obvious and non-malicious

Or you could leave. Take some time to yourself, maybe meet a normal man who you won't have to constantly pacify.

The other week I travelled across the country leaving my DC and DH at home while I saw friends I'd not seen due to distance for over a year. I texted him twice over 2 days but otherwise just had a good time with my friends. When I got back he asked me if I'd had a good time and we got takeaway.

Imagine the reaction you would get if you'd done the same and think about how you want your future to be.

Discovering that someone has been abusing you is awful and that's partly because the caricature of an abuser is of some total psychopath who has no positive attributes at all. The reality is that all people who behave abusively in relationships have positive attributes otherwise no-one would stay. BUT abusive people are usually deeply insecure and they rarely intend to abuse but simply believe that they aren't doing anything wrong. You can't convince them that they are and you can't help them fill that hole inside them, not even with all the love you can give. Once someone resorts to abusive behaviour I'm a firm believer that the relationship can't continue, it's lost. It doesn't mean you have to view him as evil or hate him but it does mean it isn't safe for your or the children to live with him as a family (emotionally anyway).

it isn't safe for ... the children to live with him as a family (emotionally anyway).

that is my roadblock, though.
right now, i am there, i am the buffer. i can keep an eye on everything. i can step in, stand up for them, be there to be brave for them.

if i go, he will have unattended access to them, and will be furious with me to boot. the children are too small to tell me if something is wrong. to even understand how they ought to be treated.

i can take any punishment. i can't take anything happening to my children though. how do women in my situation cope with that part?

I totally empathise with that feeling having had four children with 2 abusive men that I have left.

The thing that I've learned is that it is not so much protecting the children from ever experiencing things they shouldn't as a consequence of their father's behaviour that matters. It's showing leadership on how relationships should be.

It is heartbreaking watching my children being upset by their fathers' behaviour but it is also a good sign IMO. I can't change the people their fathers are, I am not responsible for their behaviour, even when it hurts the DC. What I can do is help them learn to deal with reality bravely. It's very sad and sometimes it makes me very angry but I do KNOW that the DC are better learning proper healthy boundaries from me as a result of their fathers' poor behaviour, even if they get hurt, than learning that abusive relationships are normal and never getting hurt.

It is a very hard thing though. Very hard.

People should be upset by poor behaviour. If they are feeling upset by it that's a sign they have healthy self esteem and are building proper boundaries IMO. I try to deal with them being upset and try not to worry too much for that reason.